Acetyl Proprionyl, Diacetyl, Acetoine HELP

[philmyboob]

Okay, for the people who care about these chemicals and choose to stay away from then this is my question for you. Recently went on TFA to search more flavors to get for recipes (i use TFA because of the warning labels of "custard note" ingredients) and noticed three flavors that i had bought a month prior (bavarian cream, coconut, and peanut butter) all have warning labels on them now! I'm getting really frusturated because now half my recipes contain trace amounts of these chemicals and are a waste unless i can find substitute flavors. i make juices for my friends and family and these chemicals in these flavors are the last things i want to use.

Does anyone know a flavor company that knows for SURE what chemicals are present in their flavors? Does any flavor company have lab testing done thats available to the public? Any help is greatly appreciated thank you!

 

[anavidfan]

Makes me wonder about all those expensive "custards" that are very popular......

 

[ShariR]

Phil, that is the big question. Nobody knows for sure. The vendors should be getting this information from their suppliers/distributors. It has to be traced back to the source. It is not regulated. Many vendors are good about telling the consumer what they know. But, what are they doing if they do not know.

I have had haphazard luck in finding out exactly what is in eliquid at times. It should not be this difficult.

 

[LoveVanilla]

I think that's reality. TFA is one of the more aggressive/responsible in getting it's flavors tested. I understand this is an expensive proposition and they should be commended for taking this responsible action. These ar, of course, prominently food flavorings and untested for inhalation i.e. you are the experiment. Fortunately they are not too expensive to trach on bad news. And s certainly better to get the news now versus never.

 

[philmyboob]

I think that's reality. TFA is one of the more aggressive/responsible in getting it's flavors tested. I understand this is an expensive proposition and they should be commended for taking this responsible action. These ar, of course, prominently food flavorings and untested for inhalation i.e. you are the experiment. Fortunately they are not too expensive to trach on bad news. And s certainly better to get the news now versus never.

I agree its why i started using tfa in the first place. Have any other flavor companies gotten their flavors tested and i wonder if any other companies have warnings on their flavors that have it like tfa does?

After doing a little research

Off the flavourart website under research---

ClearStream by FlavourArt | ClearStream by FlavourArt

might have to try this company

 

[aikanae1]

TFA raised the alarm back in 2010. My understanding is FDA only reguires a 95% purity level and when TFA analyzed to 98% they found trace amounts. So manufacturers had to go back and retest all their flavors specifically for eliquids. So we are talking extremely small amounts / i.e. "trace" amounts. Kinda like the FDA allows a small percentage of "insect parts" to be in cereal.

The flavors are sold to vendors as diacetyl free at 95% purity. FA and TFA were the first to test their flavor lines. But all the main flavoring lines (FW and Cap) continue to test for lower and lower amounts. Diacetyl and acetoine are "natural" so the chemicals need to be filtered out. There's been a lot of discussion about this on the DIY board. I believe TFA has a statement on their website from 2010 about their discovery.

There are some people that have been vaping for 7 years now without any harm or lung disease.

 

[philmyboob]

TFA raised the alarm back in 2010. My understanding is FDA only reguires a 95% purity level and when TFA analyzed to 98% they found trace amounts. So manufacturers had to go back and retest all their flavors specifically for eliquids. So we are talking extremely small amounts / i.e. "trace" amounts. Kinda like the FDA allows a small percentage of "insect parts" to be in cereal.

The flavors are sold to vendors as diacetyl free at 95% purity. FA and TFA were the first to test their flavor lines. But all the main flavoring lines (FW and Cap) continue to test for lower and lower amounts. Diacetyl and acetoine are "natural" so the chemicals need to be filtered out. There's been a lot of discussion about this on the DIY board. I believe TFA has a statement on their website from 2010 about their discovery.

There are some people that have been vaping for 7 years now without any harm or lung disease.

What is your opinion do you feel that these trace amounts are safe to vape over a long period of time?

Does flavor west, capella or any other flavor vendors besides tfa note that there are these chemicals present? I have been trying to do as much research as possible and havent found anything from capella or flavorwest on this matter.

 

[happydave]

anyone seen this list the FDA has of "voluntary reports of adverse events "
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutF...bouttheCenterforTobaccoProducts/UCM361437.pdf

some of them are fake for sure. some of them will raise some eyebrows.
they put a big disclaimer on it, "reports to the FDA may not be accurate or complete".
still interesting none the less.

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

What is your opinion do you feel that these trace amounts are safe to vape over a long period of time?

Does flavor west, capella or any other flavor vendors besides tfa note that there are these chemicals present? I have been trying to do as much research as possible and havent found anything from capella or flavorwest on this matter.

One small correction, it's Acetyl Proprionyl, not Acetyl Pyrazine .

As for FW, they do not list it on-site, though I do have their short-list of flavors that do contain Acetyl Proprionyl, which is below. The numbers beside each flavor is the amount of Acetyl Proprionyl in PPM (Parts per Million). This is coming direct from one of their representatives (Sarah).

1). Maple Pecan 0.278
2). Pumpkin Spice 0.272
3). Jamaican Rum 0.155

Capella's does not list anything other than Diacetyl-Free on their site; however, they are testing their flavors, working on a v2 of their Vanilla Custard and working on 7 others that are free of all three chemicals including one tobacco flavor. I've been speaking with Tom over the past few weeks and they are getting close to release, so it should be anytime now. I don't have a date for their reports though. I'll have to follow up with Tom to see if he can provide more information there.



As for the chemicals in general, as aikanae1 stated, a lot of us have been knowingly or unknowingly vaping these chemicals for quite some time now with no ill effects. Those who cloud chase probably inhale 2-3x or more than what those of us who typically vape 2-5ml per day do and numerous people vape custard and vanilla flavors, all of which tend to have said chemicals in them. Those that do not, do not have the all familiar buttery flavor that is so true to a custard or french vanilla. Hopefully Capella's v2 Vanilla Custard provides an alternative.

Do I think there's some potential hard? Sure. Am I still vaping these flavors? Yes. Why? Because we smoked for X years, diacetyl IS in tobacco cigarrettes and we never batted an eyelash. If one extra chemical is all that is in the juice I vape, I consider myself safer than when I was burning and inhaling well over 4,000.


Everyone, of course, is free to make their own decisions . I'll continue to update everyone as I'm able to do so!

 

[we2rcool]

Okay, for the people who care about these chemicals and choose to stay away from then this is my question for you. Recently went on TFA to search more flavors to get for recipes (i use TFA because of the warning labels of "custard note" ingredients) and noticed three flavors that i had bought a month prior (bavarian cream, coconut, and peanut butter) all have warning labels on them now! I'm getting really frusturated because now half my recipes contain trace amounts of these chemicals and are a waste unless i can find substitute flavors. i make juices for my friends and family and these chemicals in these flavors are the last things i want to use.

Does anyone know a flavor company that knows for SURE what chemicals are present in their flavors? Does any flavor company have lab testing done thats available to the public? Any help is greatly appreciated thank you!

The ONLY manufacturer vendor that is free of these chemicals (and has the data/tests to back their claim) is the E-Cig line of Flavourart. TFA continues to update their lists with information regarding the presence of these chemicals, but they keep "finding" more (as you've seen) - and some of the ones they have found aren't yet noted in the product/flavor descriptions. You can find out which ones contain acetyl proprionyl, acetoin, or both on this TFA page Perfumer's Apprentice

TIP for finding them all: when the page loads, scroll down to: Butter Flavor ...and then click on the word: List (on the far right of the same line). Once the "List page" for Butter Flavor loads, you'll scroll down to see: Components ...and under that, you'll find: Vegetable Glycerine; Acetoin; Acetylproprionyl. When you click on Acetoin, you'll be given a list of ALL the flavors that contain Acetoin, and then you can go back and do the same for Acetylproprionyl. (We were recently VERY displeased to find that several of the flavors we'd purchased (and used!) specifically because they were free of acetoin/acetyl proprionyl , have been known by TFA to contain them...but yet they haven't added the information to the product descriptions.

Unless something has changed in the last couple of weeks, the only other "proof" we have are various "vendor claims" (most times come from those who claim to speak to or email them).

You can find a lot more information in this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/534508-flavors-may-contain-diacetyl-there-really-many.html - starting with an OSHA list of various flavors that may contain diacetyl; the NIOSH/OSHA safety recommendations for inhalation exposure (8-25 ppb - parts per billion); a math example of how many ppb is in a flavor containing .6% diacetyl used at 2% in a juice (1200 ppb), and much more pertinent information.

Since that thread, we've calculated the ppb of using a flavor that contains .05% (TFA's "trace amounts" are anywhere from "less than .01% to less than .1%"...so we chose a percentage even less than .01%. 'Turns out if you use a flavor with .05% acetoin/acetyl proprionyl/diacetyl content at a mere 5% in a juice, it works out to 250 ppb.

What is your opinion do you feel that these trace amounts are safe to vape over a long period of time?

It's our opinion that the safety recommendations are very clear. 'Just doing the math shows that these "trace amounts" exceed the safety recommendations substantially. These flavor molecules used in flavor chemistry are typically NOT "naturally occuring" - they're either chemically isolated from their natural sources, or they're synthesized. No one ever got popcorn lung from inhaling butter fumes in a dairy or bakery! We've been using them less & less over the months we've been researching, and we'll be eliminating them 100%.

As far as vapers not yet having symptoms or diseases - there are tons of people out there that drink a few beers a night for 5-10 years and have virtually no evidence of liver disease. That doesn't mean they aren't developing liver disease, it only means they can't feel it/sense it, or the tests don't show it...yet.

We don't "know" it's going to be a problem for us or anybody else - we'd rather be safe than take the risk...it's not like it's a hardship to have only a few hundred bazillion possible flavors instead of a few thousand bazillion.

'Glad to see you're amongst those of us doing our best to "vape safe"!

 

[we2rcool]

anyone seen this list the FDA has of "voluntary reports of adverse events "
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutF...bouttheCenterforTobaccoProducts/UCM361437.pdf

some of them are fake for sure. some of them will raise some eyebrows.
they put a big disclaimer on it, "reports to the FDA may not be accurate or complete".
still interesting none the less.

Since "medical investigation" is one of our areas of expertise, I just thought I'd add that the FDA officially claims that only 1 in 100 actual adverse effects are ever reported...by physicians OR patients. It's a royal pain in the .... to file a report. Not nearly as many are fake as one might assume.

 

[vangrl27]

One small correction, it's Acetyl Proprionyl, not Acetyl Pyrazine .

As for FW, they do not list it on-site, though I do have their short-list of flavors that do contain Acetyl Proprionyl, which is below. The numbers beside each flavor is the amount of Acetyl Proprionyl in PPM (Parts per Million). This is coming direct from one of their representatives (Sarah).

1). Maple Pecan 0.278
2). Pumpkin Spice 0.272
3). Jamaican Rum 0.155

Capella's does not list anything other than Diacetyl-Free on their site; however, they are testing their flavors, working on a v2 of their Vanilla Custard and working on 7 others that are free of all three chemicals including one tobacco flavor. I've been speaking with Tom over the past few weeks and they are getting close to release, so it should be anytime now. I don't have a date for their reports though. I'll have to follow up with Tom to see if he can provide more information there.



As for the chemicals in general, as aikanae1 stated, a lot of us have been knowingly or unknowingly vaping these chemicals for quite some time now with no ill effects. Those who cloud chase probably inhale 2-3x or more than what those of us who typically vape 2-5ml per day do and numerous people vape custard and vanilla flavors, all of which tend to have said chemicals in them. Those that do not, do not have the all familiar buttery flavor that is so true to a custard or french vanilla. Hopefully Capella's v2 Vanilla Custard provides an alternative.

Do I think there's some potential hard? Sure. Am I still vaping these flavors? Yes. Why? Because we smoked for X years, diacetyl IS in tobacco cigarrettes and we never batted an eyelash. If one extra chemical is all that is in the juice I vape, I consider myself safer than when I was burning and inhaling well over 4,000.


Everyone, of course, is free to make their own decisions . I'll continue to update everyone as I'm able to do so!

FYI

Flavor West Butterscotch was tested for Diacetyl and this was the results of the test, and I quote-

"1797ug or micrograms of diacetyl where found in an eliquid that contained 10% butterscotch flavouring. This would work out to 1.797mg per ml. The concentrate they offer contains 17970ug or 17.97mg/ml diacetyl based on the amount in the eliquid tested converted to full concentration.”

I’m no scientist, but that seems like a high level of Diacetyl, maybe other more knowledgeable members can chime in?

What concerns me is that Flavor West claim to be Diacetyl free, and therefore their resellers are claiming it Diacetyl free, and on and on and on…. How are we ever to really know unless these flavours are tested? and the tests made available? obviously we can't trust everything we're told.

this test was performed by one of the largest Canadian e-juice makers. They tested an e-juice that they made that was using only 10% butterscotch from Flavor West and these were the results. They only tested this one concentrate, but that was enough to pull all juices containing their Butterscotch and discontinue their relationship with Flavor West.

 

[HeadInClouds]

Flavor West Butterscotch was tested for Diacetyl ... The concentrate they offer contains 17970ug or 17.97mg/ml diacetyl
They only tested this one concentrate, but that was enough to pull all juices containing their Butterscotch and discontinue their relationship with Flavor West.

This vendor's test confirms what I suspected. I could taste 'those' chemicals in FW Butterscotch (Butter Pecan, Butter Rum, Butter Toffee, Caramel Candy, Salted Caramel, Cinnamon Roll, Gingerbread, Mocha, Tres Leches, Vanilla Ice Cream, Yellow Cake, and more). I've quit vaping all FW flavors due to their lack of disclosure. I'm impressed this vendor took it upon themselves to test, despite FW's claim, and I'm not shocked at the results.

While the list of TFA flavorings without these ingredients has grown shorter, I continue to use their others. They've proven they care enough to test, and they make results public. I don't know of any other American company that does.

I primarily use e-cig flavoring line from FlavourArt, an Italian company. They also test and provide results. They separate their flavorings with any of these ingredients into their 'kitchen magic' line, which is not intended for vaping. Fortunately for me, my favorite flavors are nearly all FA e-cig flavors. There are many, including Butterscotch.

I'm sure other manufacturers have flavorings I'd like - but the longer I vape, the less willing I am to buy and vape mystery ingredients. Unless I see test results for diacetyl and the related diketones, I'm unlikely to buy. It limits me some, but I worry less.

 

[we2rcool]

FYI

Flavor West Butterscotch was tested for Diacetyl and this was the results of the test, and I quote-

"1797ug or micrograms of diacetyl where found in an eliquid that contained 10% butterscotch flavouring. This would work out to 1.797mg per ml. The concentrate they offer contains 17970ug or 17.97mg/ml diacetyl based on the amount in the eliquid tested converted to full concentration.”

I’m no scientist, but that seems like a high level of Diacetyl, maybe other more knowledgeable members can chime in?

What concerns me is that Flavor West claim to be Diacetyl free, and therefore their resellers are claiming it Diacetyl free, and on and on and on…. How are we ever to really know unless these flavours are tested? and the tests made available? obviously we can't trust everything we're told.

this test was performed by one of the largest Canadian e-juice makers. They tested an e-juice that they made that was using only 10% butterscotch from Flavor West and these were the results. They only tested this one concentrate, but that was enough to pull all juices containing their Butterscotch and discontinue their relationship with Flavor West.

Thank you VERY much vangrl27 for posting this important information!

Wethinks in this day & age it's just plain lunancy to believe all these random claims...particularly if the person/company making them has 'a dog in the fight', and they're not willing (or don't offer) to provide the evidence to back up their claims! Seriously, if someone/company spends the time & money to have their products adequately tested (which should be something they consider essential to even doing business), why wouldn't they be willing (and proud) to offer the evidence to back up their claims?

So kudos to this Canadian juice maker/seller for expending their own time, effort and expense to check it out! And double-kudos to them for their solid principles and 'action with integrity'! Pulling & discontinuing product and reformulating likely cost them plenty...but gained them much more!

On the TFA site (section called Flavorist's Corner), there's instructions on how to easily teach ourselves how to recognize these flavors; they've very distinctive and easy to recognize with even minimal effort. We used FW Butterscotch for the first time in a mix last week. We'd have put our left nut/boob on the line after tasting it regarding it's diacetyl/similar content ('didn't even have to taste/vape it; you can smell it). And we're not the only ones that scoffed at the reported FW claims when they were posted in the other thread. It really is insulting to ones intelligence to have these claims continuing to be made when it's so obvious there's reason to doubt them.

Thanks again! The vaping community needs to stand strong, tall, and in solidarity & integrity on this issue!

 

[vangrl27]

this is the test result for anyone that is interested
2,3 Butanedione is the proper name for Diacetyl

 

[vangrl27]

"if someone/company spends the time & money to have their products adequately tested (which should be something they consider essential to even doing business), why wouldn't they be willing (and proud) to offer the evidence to back up their claims?"

you hit the nail on the head with this one

 

[edyle]

What is your opinion do you feel that these trace amounts are safe to vape over a long period of time?

Does flavor west, capella or any other flavor vendors besides tfa note that there are these chemicals present? I have been trying to do as much research as possible and havent found anything from capella or flavorwest on this matter.

That's the question; what constitutes a trace amount for vaping purposes.

 

[vangrl27]

I asked the Canadian company if they spoke to Flavor West regarding this test and this is what they said


"I emailed them about this with no reply, I also posted this page of results on a facebook group where people were talking about flavor west flavours and someone removed me from the group the same day. I don't know what was up with that, but this is an authentic report from a proper lab.
Please keep in mind I don't want this to come across as me bashing another company, as I will not speak ill of another business unless there is a safety concern that I feel is putting other people at risk. In this case there is such a concern, and it seems like they are not willing to acknowledge or address it."

 

[edyle]

Diacetyl
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Diacetyl (IUPAC systematic name: butanedione or butane-2,3-dione) is an organic compound with the chemical formula (CH3CO)2. It is a volatile, colourless liquid with an intensely buttery flavor. It is a vicinal diketone (two C=O groups, side-by-side) with the molecular formula C4H6O2. Diacetyl occurs naturally in alcoholic beverages and is added to some foods to impart its buttery flavor.

Worker Safety

The United States National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health has suggested diacetyl, when used in artificial butter flavoring (as used in many consumer foods), may be hazardous when heated and inhaled over a long period.

Workers in several factories that manufacture artificial butter flavoring have been diagnosed with bronchiolitis obliterans, a rare and serious disease of the lungs. The cases found have been mainly in young, healthy, nonsmoking males. As with other end-stage lung diseases, transplantation is currently the most viable treatment option. However, lung transplant rejection is very common and happens to be another setting in which bronchiolitis obliterans is known to occur.

While several authorities have called the disease "popcorn worker's lung", a more accurate term suggested by other doctors may be more appropriate, since the disease can occur in any industry working with diacetyl: diacetyl-induced bronchiolitis obliterans.

In 2006, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and the United Food and Commercial Workers petitioned the U.S. OSHA to promulgate an emergency temporary standard to protect workers from the deleterious health effects of inhaling diacetyl vapors.[13] The petition was followed by a letter of support signed by more than 30 prominent scientists.[14] The matter is under consideration. On 21 January 2009, OSHA issued an advance notice of proposed rulemaking for regulating exposure to diacetyl.[15] The notice requests respondents to provide input regarding adverse health effects, methods to evaluate and monitor exposure, the training of workers. That notice also solicited input regarding exposure and health effects of acetoin, acetaldehyde, acetic acid and furfural.[16]

Two bills in the California Legislature seek to ban the use of diacetyl.[17][18][19]

A 2010 OSHA Safety and Health Information Bulletin and companion Worker Alert recommend employers use safety measures to avoid exposing employees to the potentially deadly effects of butter flavorings and other flavoring substances containing diacetyl or its substitutes.[20]

A preliminary in vitro study, published in 2012, suggests that diacetyl may exacerbate the effects of beta-amyloid aggregation, a process linked to Alzheimer's disease.[21]
Consumer Safety

In 2007, the Flavor and Extract Manufacturers Association recommended reducing diacetyl in butter flavorings.[22] Manufacturers of butter flavored popcorn including Pop Weaver, Trail's End, and ConAgra Foods (maker of Orville Redenbacher's and Act II) began removing diacetyl as an ingredient from their products.[23][24]

In 2012, Wayne Watson, a regular microwavable popcorn consumer for years, was awarded $7.27 million in damages from a federal jury in Denver, which decided his lung disease was caused by the chemicals in microwave popcorn and that the popcorn's manufacturer, Gilster-Mary Lee Corporation, and the grocery store that sold it should have warned him of its dangers.[25][26][27]

 

[edyle]

Diacetyl
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Diacetyl (IUPAC systematic name: butanedione or butane-2,3-dione) is an organic compound with the chemical formula (CH3CO)2. It is a volatile, colourless liquid with an intensely buttery flavor. It is a vicinal diketone (two C=O groups, side-by-side) with the molecular formula C4H6O2. Diacetyl occurs naturally in alcoholic beverages and is added to some foods to impart its buttery flavor.

Worker Safety

The United States National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health has suggested diacetyl, when used in artificial butter flavoring (as used in many consumer foods), may be hazardous when heated and inhaled over a long period.

Workers in several factories that manufacture artificial butter flavoring have been diagnosed with bronchiolitis obliterans, a rare and serious disease of the lungs. The cases found have been mainly in young, healthy, nonsmoking males. As with other end-stage lung diseases, transplantation is currently the most viable treatment option. However, lung transplant rejection is very common and happens to be another setting in which bronchiolitis obliterans is known to occur.

While several authorities have called the disease "popcorn worker's lung", a more accurate term suggested by other doctors may be more appropriate, since the disease can occur in any industry working with diacetyl: diacetyl-induced bronchiolitis obliterans.

In 2006, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and the United Food and Commercial Workers petitioned the U.S. OSHA to promulgate an emergency temporary standard to protect workers from the deleterious health effects of inhaling diacetyl vapors.[13] The petition was followed by a letter of support signed by more than 30 prominent scientists.[14] The matter is under consideration. On 21 January 2009, OSHA issued an advance notice of proposed rulemaking for regulating exposure to diacetyl.[15] The notice requests respondents to provide input regarding adverse health effects, methods to evaluate and monitor exposure, the training of workers. That notice also solicited input regarding exposure and health effects of acetoin, acetaldehyde, acetic acid and furfural.[16]

Two bills in the California Legislature seek to ban the use of diacetyl.[17][18][19]

A 2010 OSHA Safety and Health Information Bulletin and companion Worker Alert recommend employers use safety measures to avoid exposing employees to the potentially deadly effects of butter flavorings and other flavoring substances containing diacetyl or its substitutes.[20]

A preliminary in vitro study, published in 2012, suggests that diacetyl may exacerbate the effects of beta-amyloid aggregation, a process linked to Alzheimer's disease.[21]
Consumer Safety

In 2007, the Flavor and Extract Manufacturers Association recommended reducing diacetyl in butter flavorings.[22] Manufacturers of butter flavored popcorn including Pop Weaver, Trail's End, and ConAgra Foods (maker of Orville Redenbacher's and Act II) began removing diacetyl as an ingredient from their products.[23][24]

In 2012, Wayne Watson, a regular microwavable popcorn consumer for years, was awarded $7.27 million in damages from a federal jury in Denver, which decided his lung disease was caused by the chemicals in microwave popcorn and that the popcorn's manufacturer, Gilster-Mary Lee Corporation, and the grocery store that sold it should have warned him of its dangers.[25][26][27]