Acetyl Proprionyl, Diacetyl, Acetoine HELP

[Ryedan]

this is the test result for anyone that is interested
2,3 Butanedione is the proper name for Diacetyl

If I've done the math right, that is a huge amount of diacetyl.

1797 micrograms/ml = 1.797 mg/ml = 0.1797% = 1,797,000 ppb

So 10% in a juice = 179,700 ppb.

I checked that a few times, but someone please check my math again. Not used to so many zeros

 

[we2rcool]

That's the question; what constitutes a trace amount for vaping purposes.

We have the information in the form of safety guidelines from OSHA/NIOSH - the complete report can be found here CDC - NIOSH Update - Diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione: NIOSH Seeks Comment On Draft Criteria Document

For Diacetyl, a recommended exposure limit (REL) of 5 parts per billion (ppb) as an eight-hour, time-weighted average, (TWA) during a 40-hour work week. To further protect against effects of short-term exposures, NIOSH recommends in the draft document a short-term exposure limit (STEL) for diacetyl of 25 ppb for a 15-minute time period.

For 2,3-pentanedione, a recommended exposure limit (REL) of 9.3 parts per billion (ppb) as an eight-hour, time-weighted average, (TWA) during a 40-hour work week. The REL for 2,3-pentanedione in the draft document is based upon the lowest level at which the substance reliably can be detected using the existing analytical method, and should not be misconstrued to imply that 2,3-pentanedione is of lower toxicity than diacetyl. Further, NIOSH recommends a STEL of 31 ppb to limit peak exposures for 2,3-pentanedione on the same basis of analytic method limitation.
​

...summarized: 5-8 ppb for 8-hour-daily exposure, and 25ppb for short-term/15 minute exposure.


We have "done the math", and this is what we found:

Trace amount of .05%, in a flavor used at 5% in a mix = 250 ppb
Trace amount of .6%, in a flavor used at 2% in a mix = 1200 ppb

So trace amounts of "less than 1%" (even less than .1%!) ends up yielding much more than what most of us would assume it would/could.

 

[we2rcool]

If I've done the math right, that is a huge amount of diacetyl.

1797 micrograms/ml = 1.797 mg/ml = 0.1797% = 1,797,000 ppb

So 10% in a juice = 179,700 ppb.

I checked that a few times, but someone please check my math again. Not used to so many zeros

Are the test results based upon the flavor alone? Or the flavor already mixed at 10% in an e-liquid? Edit: either way, it's WAY too much for us.

 

[edyle]

If I've done the math right, that is a huge amount of diacetyl.

1797 micrograms/ml = 1.797 mg/ml = 0.1797% = 1,797,000 ppb

So 10% in a juice = 179,700 ppb.

I checked that a few times, but someone please check my math again. Not used to so many zeros

2 parts per million ? huge?

No didn't check the math, I just found it confusing that you suddenly decided to use ppb to confuse me.

 

[Ryedan]

Are the test results based upon the flavor alone? Or the flavor already mixed at 10% in an e-liquid? Edit: either way, it's WAY too much for us.

Thank you we2rcool. From vangrls post (bold is mine):

"1797ug or micrograms of diacetyl where found in an eliquid that contained 10% butterscotch flavouring. This would work out to 1.797mg per ml. The concentrate they offer contains 17970ug or 17.97mg/ml diacetyl based on the amount in the eliquid tested converted to full concentration.”

So;

1797 micrograms/ml = 1,797,000 ppb

Could this possibly be correct?

 

[we2rcool]

2 parts per billion ? huge?

No didn't check the math, I just found it confusing that you suddenly decided to use ppb to confuse me.

The safety guidelines are stated in ppb...so we're working on converting "percentages to ppb".

 

[LoveVanilla]

Good news, Black Sesame tests okay and there's hope for Worcestershire.


[serious stuff, thought we could use some levity...]

 

[Ryedan]

For Diacetyl, a recommended exposure limit (REL) of 5 parts per billion (ppb) as an eight-hour, time-weighted average, (TWA) during a 40-hour work week.

2 parts per billion ? huge?

No didn't check the math, I just found it confusing that you suddenly decided to use ppb to confuse me.

I'm using ppb because of the bold in we2rcool's post.

From where do you get '2 ppb'?

 

[vangrl27]

Are the test results based upon the flavor alone? Or the flavor already mixed at 10% in an e-liquid? Edit: either way, it's WAY too much for us.

this statement had me believe that it was e-juice containing 10% butterscotch flavouring

"1797ug or micrograms of diacetyl where found in an eliquid that contained 10% butterscotch flavouring."

I'm not sure why they didn't just test the flavor concentrate rather than the e-juice, but I think because they test for other things at the same time (nic levels, contaminates etc..) , so they can claim that their e-juice that they sell as a finished product has been tested. I'm guessing here, he didn't get into that part with me.

 

[Ryedan]

Good news, Black Sesame tests okay and there's hope for Worcestershire.


[serious stuff, thought we could use some levity...]

..............

 

[we2rcool]

Thank you we2rcool. From vangrls post (bold is mine):

"1797ug or micrograms of diacetyl where found in an eliquid that contained 10% butterscotch flavouring. This would work out to 1.797mg per ml. The concentrate they offer contains 17970ug or 17.97mg/ml diacetyl based on the amount in the eliquid tested converted to full concentration.”

So;

1797 micrograms/ml = 1,797,000 ppb

Could this possibly be correct?

Okay, math is not my strongest suit (so I'd appreciate any expert double checking)...

As a very "general rule of thumb", we use: 1000 mg = approximately 1 ml (technically, we can't convert it like that because we can't convert weight into volume without having more data).

We know there's 1000 micrograms in a milligram...that means there's 1.797 milligrams in a milliliter of fluid.

1.797 divided by 1000 should give us the percentage...which works out to .001797%.

On this "ppb converter" Conversion-Calculator / Convert Measurement Units that works out to 17970 parts per billion.

 

[vangrl27]

oh man this math stuff is confusing...

But I am curious to know if this is a lot or negligible. I assumed it was a lot from the tester stating "was proven to contain high levels of Diacetyl" ... but what the heck do i know.

 

[HeadInClouds]

Microgram per ml ---> parts per billion conversion:
ug/ml to ppb Converter, Chart -- EndMemo

It is far more than the maximum OSHA limits, both as a flavoring and mixed at 10%.

 

[edyle]

I'm using ppb because of the bold in we2rcool's post.

From where do you get '2 ppb'?

1797 micrograms/ml = 1.797 mg/ml = 0.1797% = 1,797,000 ppb

1,797,000 ppb boils... oh; I meant to say "2 ppm" I'll go back and correct that thanks.

 

[Ryedan]

Okay, math is not my strongest suit (so I'd appreciate any expert double checking)...

As a very "general rule of thumb", we use: 1000 mg = approximately 1 ml (technically, we can't convert it like that because we can't convert weight into volume without having more data).

We know there's 1000 micrograms in a milligram...that means there's 1.797 milligrams in a milliliter of fluid.

1.797 divided by 1000 should give us the percentage...which works out to .001797%.

On this "ppb converter" Conversion-Calculator / Convert Measurement Units that works out to 17970 parts per billion.

IMO think you made an error in the mg to percent calc.

It is '1.797 milligrams in a milliliter of fluid'. That is the same as saying 1.797 mg/ml, correct?

I'm pretty sure that 24 mg/ml juice is 2.4% nic. Here's a discussion on it that seems to confirm that.

If that is correct, 1.797 mg in a ml is 0.1797%.

Does this make sense?

 

[Ryedan]

Microgram per ml ---> parts per billion conversion:
ug/ml to ppb Converter, Chart -- EndMemo

Going from micrograms/ml to ppb makes it easy

And brings the number back up to 1,797,000 ppb!

 

[edyle]

Okay, math is not my strongest suit (so I'd appreciate any expert double checking)...

As a very "general rule of thumb", we use: 1000 mg = approximately 1 ml (technically, we can't convert it like that because we can't convert weight into volume without having more data).

We know there's 1000 micrograms in a milligram...that means there's 1.797 milligrams in a milliliter of fluid.

1.797 divided by 1000 should give us the percentage...which works out to .001797%.

On this "ppb converter" Conversion-Calculator / Convert Measurement Units that works out to 17970 parts per billion.

No.

1.7 divided by 1000 = 0.0017 = 0.17 = 0.17%


The meaning of %
1000% = 10
200% = 2
100% = 1
10% = 0.1
1% = 0.01

 

[Ryedan]

oh man this math stuff is confusing...

But I am curious to know if this is a lot or negligible. I assumed it was a lot from the tester stating "was proven to contain high levels of Diacetyl" ... but what the heck do i know.

It is extremely high vangrl. OSHA suggests "a recommended exposure limit (REL) of 5 parts per billion (ppb) as an eight-hour, time-weighted average, (TWA) during a 40-hour work week". We're at 1,797,000 ppb in the juice. You could say we're breathing it every breath, but IMO this number makes anything else irrelevant.

I was wondering if anything contained this much Diacetyl. From a site I found;

"Pastes and liquid butter flavors contained the highest amount (6% to 10.6%) while natural butter possessed up to 7500 times less diacetyl".

We're at about 0.2% so it is possible.

I wonder how accurate the data from the lab report is.

 

[Ryedan]

Dual post ...

 

[we2rcool]

Deleted due to our mistake