BBC News- Possible Death from E-Cig Use?

[MissVapor]

This was just posted in the pneumonia thread, but I wanted to start it as a new thread so others could see it too and realize it wasn't an old post.

YouTube - Bad news for E-cig Users


My response:
He was vaping oil? WTH? Where did the Dr come up with his theory? I wish they would have went into more details..smells fishy to me..

I just paused the part where they showed a bottle of e-liquid. I can tell it is a bottle of Ecopure. IF that is what this guy was using that means it was from 100% VG. I know VG is water soluble BUT it DOES come from vegetable OIL. So would there possibly still be traces of oil in VG liquids?

From experience my lungs did not react well to VG but I know others use it with no problem.. THOUGHTS???

 

[Kams Cats]

Two very good blog posts about it

BBC Look North 28th March 2011 - UK Vapers
Lipoid Pneumonia - Crossbow's Research - UK Vapers

Also the bottle of e-liquid they held up was just a prop. They never said exactly what he was using in his e-cig. It would be helpful to know.

 

[loden813]

We all know we must read between the line - I try and read several foriegn news reports before making my own decisions. Thanks for posting!

 

[Bagazo]

Not sure about VG but PG has been tested and deemed safe for prolonged use. I think it just might be big tobacco trying to scare AWOL smokers back onto the death sticks. You know that guys that put out posters with doctors and scientists claiming how safe cigs are.

 

[MissVapor]

Thanks for the links, I read both.. The one link did say the reporter "believes" the eliquid being used was Intellicig (which is ecopure VG)

There have been no studies on the safety of inhaling VG so if it comes out that it builds up in the lungs and causes pneumonia it really wouldn't surprise me.

I still think it's safest to use unflavored liquids too

 

[telsie]

Here's the article I saw today.

BBC News - Gateshead doctor calls for research into 'e-cigarettes'

So the guy might have gotten pneumonia from his ecig, which might have been using some sort of oil based liquid? This is a non-story until they've got actual findings to report.

 

[Zal42]

There have been no studies on the safety of inhaling VG so if it comes out that it builds up in the lungs and causes pneumonia it really wouldn't surprise me.

I would be very surprised! There have been such studies (although it's not as well studied as pg) starting in the late 1800s. The studies indicate that it's relatively benign, and no mention of pneumonia.

Inhalation study in rats
Starting on page 23
SIDS assessment

There are lots more. Google is your friend.

By the way, according to this study, cigarettes contain 2% glycerin, and a smoker will absorb 1.6mg of it from each cigarette.

 

[CountVapula]

i call BS. this is big tobacco or big pharma scare tactics.

 

[Kams Cats]

I think the biggest problem is the fact the fellow was a heavy smoker. With Emphysema so his lungs were in bad shape to begin with. People have to remember that we don't heal over night if ever from our smoking. Plus it was six months ago and he had stopped vaping some time ago so I don't know if they even have a sample of his e-liquid or even tissue samples of his lungs. So to say one way or another is a tough call.

I think it is something to be studied. To be aware of. This isn't the regular types of pneumonia so if you do get sick it doesn't mean you have this type. See a Dr! Those of us with really battered lungs should probably be a little more careful.

 

[ElProximo]

So the guy might have gotten pneumonia from his ecig, which might have been using some sort of oil based liquid? This is a non-story until they've got actual findings to report.

That is my major complaint too. It is irresponsible to scare up a e-cig issue on this yet. So far, we have a lifelong smoker with chronic lung problems who died of something cigarette smokers are vulnerable to.
It happens he was electronic smoking for a short time. Plenty of smokers do use nicotine patches, gums etc when it gets so bad they are dying or in trouble (from the smoking already).

Anyways, yea, there is no story yet. That they hype up a new 'scare' here is just more hype media.

 

[nonmalum]

More research DOES need to be done to determine the safety of ecigs, with and without flavorings.

I have no doubt in my mind that there are indeed risks to using them. The fact that they are potentially much less damaging than analogs is not the point, the point is to determine what the risks are and how they can be mitigated.

But yes, the tobacco industry is probably somewhat happy this story came to be.
So am I in a way, in order for there to be some more research there has to be more public interest, and I imagine there will be in the coming months. Positive and negative.

 

[Zal42]

I, too am interested in more research, but...

The fact that they are potentially much less damaging than analogs is not the point, the point is to determine what the risks are and how they can be mitigated.

...practically speaking, the only point that matters to me is that they are less harmful than cigarettes. Everything beyond that is just intellectual curiosity.

 

[GregH]

...practically speaking, the only point that matters to me is that they are less harmful than cigarettes. Everything beyond that is just intellectual curiosity.

same here. If I weren't absolutely convinced that they are less harmful that cigarettes, I never would have bought one in the first place. How am I so convinced, you may ask. Well, I'm no rocket scientist, but it doesn't take an advanced degree to know that inhaling vapor is less harmful than inhaling byproducts of combustion.

Is it safe in absolute terms? Probably not. But, then again, what is?

Is it safer than setting tobacco that has been laced with hundreds of chemicals on fire and inhaling the smoke? Duh!

 

[slr817]

I'm not giving up my e-cigs based on these kind of reports, I have early stage COPD and in the last year since I started vaping my health has improved 100%. But let me say this, I'm also a nurse and sometimes the bad effects from something like this may not show up for years, I can see how the liquids we vape could cause Lipoid Pneumonia and that is a very bad type of Pneumonia to get. I remember not long ago being in the car with my grandaughter and she asked exactly what am I inhaling into my lungs? I explained it and told her it was much safer to me (and her) than when I was smoking cigarettes but I got to admit it also made me start thinking about it more than I used to....

 

[Clevername]

Wasn't he 71 a long time smoker and didn't he have Emphysema? Not saying e-juice is perfect and I would really like them to be researched and improved from a health standpoint. But research would, imho, bring government involvement and the more the government gets involved the more likely the prices will go up or you will only be able to buy the juice from their good friends - big tobacco or drug companies. Not trying to be all paranoid but I DO NOT feel the government, big tobacco or pharmaceutical companies really have our safety or health as a top concern.

 

[ElProximo]

At this time Canada has effectively 'banned' ecigs but what seems to be happening is a series of testing and of course ways to find a regulating scheme to recover taxes lost on smokers.
OK.
The good news is that researches have given e-cigs a 'preliminary in-theory' big thumbs up. What they are really concerned about is the reality of:
-nicotine safety
- quality control.
Put aside government tax greed and this IS a good thing to get established with e-cigs. I notice the industry is doing a good job regulating itself but here is a question:
What if we find out that the man in question had somehow ordered an unregulated irresponsible product?
In this case its not 'E-Cigs' that are the actual problem so much as it was a 'bad vendor'.

But I'd still go back to common (tragic) situations with any products (abuse or accidental misuse) to show up the unnecessary media/public misdirected scares:
- A man had a heart attack after it was found he had places 4 nicotine patches on his body. Nobody said 'Nicotine patches' were to blame so much as misuse of a safe product was to blame.
- Sadly someone died from a peanut allergy eating a snack. Everyone agrees the actual problem was the allergy not snack.

Anyways, I dunno. I'm glad they investigate but I'm sorry to see this became an 'Did E-Cigs kill him?' type of hype story before we really know anything AND have reason to believe previous health problems unrelated to e-cigs is a likely explanation so far.

 

[hippiebrian]

How many thousands die from pukearettes every day (hour?)? Yet somehow this one ex-smoker, ex- heavy smoker, MIGHT have died because an e-cig MIGHT have attributed to a lung disease that pukearettes actually can cause makes a headline? The BBC is stretching on this one...no real news that day?

 

[cookiebun]

An awful lot of people have filed complaints with the BBC over this story.

 

[Rar]

This was just posted in the pneumonia thread, but I wanted to start it as a new thread so others could see it too and realize it wasn't an old post.

YouTube - Bad news for E-cig Users


My response:
He was vaping oil? WTH? Where did the Dr come up with his theory? I wish they would have went into more details..smells fishy to me..

I just paused the part where they showed a bottle of e-liquid. I can tell it is a bottle of Ecopure. IF that is what this guy was using that means it was from 100% VG. I know VG is water soluble BUT it DOES come from vegetable OIL. So would there possibly still be traces of oil in VG liquids?

From experience my lungs did not react well to VG but I know others use it with no problem.. THOUGHTS???

When I logged on this morning, I was going to post and ask if any other users had problems with VG use. I have a couple of sample bottles of 100% VG juice, which I've been using until my new flavors (80 PG/20 VG) arrive. My lungs are not reacting well and I am having difficulty breathing. Because it seems to be a thicker juice, yesterday I had visions of it sticking to my lungs and bronchial tubes. Today, I think I'm going to stop it entirely. I may have to switch to 100% PG. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Lusak]

When I logged on this morning, I was going to post and ask if any other users had problems with VG use. I have a couple of sample bottles of 100% VG juice, which I've been using until my new flavors (80 PG/20 VG) arrive. My lungs are not reacting well and I am having difficulty breathing. Because it seems to be a thicker juice, yesterday I had visions of it sticking to my lungs and bronchial tubes. Today, I think I'm going to stop it entirely. I may have to switch to 100% PG. Anyone have any thoughts?

I have been scarce at the forums as of late, but I recently have been cutting back and now quitting e-cigs for these same issues.

I'm a healthy 28 year old runner, former smoker of 10 years, and have vaped exclusively for over a year now. As it goes on, I have been developing symptoms of pnemonia quite frequently, with the symptoms disappearing after a few days of not vaping. I'm using a 20% vg / 80% pg mix, and frankly I don't care to play a game of whether or not it is the PG or the VG. My lungs are too important to me to continue.

I understand the community here often wants to discount or question stories over fears that stories here will be spread by anti-vaping crowds; do understand that ignoring stories such as this is irresponsible. Most of us are here for our health in addition to the hobby.