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GP Series by VapourArt - Official Thread for GP Spheroid, GP PAPS, X, GP Piccolo, GP SnP and more - Part 3
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You have to live in the US as its a crime to ship outside of the US - dunno why but something to do with the material. It's on their site.
Continuing the results from GP Series by VapourArt - Official Thread for GP Spheroid, GP PAPS, X, GP Piccolo, GP SnP and more - Part 3
Wouldn't you know it, today's results while illustrating my issue, has been better today than most days. Anyway... here goes. Sorry if the pictures are not exceptionally clear. I'm taking them on my phone and if the light is too bright (reflecting off the ss surfaces) it doesn't quite focus correctly and its macro-level shooting is poor at best.
From the previous examples, we know my wick, coil, and fluff hasn't caused any flooding/over-wicking (while static and unvaped, even at fairly hot temperature). We also can conclude that walking about jostling the hnp in pocket (or even vibrating on the seat of a car) will not, by itself, cause major flooding.
The vaping test will show us the rest.
All puffs were measured to be appx 3-4 seconds long with 5-6 seconds in between. After the first ten puffs, puffs were taken in sets of 10 with 2 minutes of rest in between. during that time, the atty heated up a fair amount to "warm" but not nearly to "hot" as I achieved with the blow dryer. During rest periods, the hnp was stood up vertically resting on a level surface.
I vaped at appx 60° off vertical with the afc pointing somewhere between the 9 o'clock and 10 o'clock position - so that the posts were in the vertical position with the coil to the left (making sure there is flow to the lower wick at the very least and so that any liquid would not spill into the air hole).
After 5 puffs: No flooding/leaking but you can already see where the spatter from the coil is on the deck/posts/deck ring. Not enough liquid to affect the small piece of cotton I out as an indicator opposite the coil.
After 10 puffs: More liquid spraying from the coil. Enough to start saturating the small piece of cotton I put there as an indicator.
I took the cotton piece out as it already fulfilled its purpose. Notice the dark color. This cane from the coil and is darker than the liquid in the wick
After 30 puffs: Still wicking well (good contact with fluff without over-wicking). As I tilt the deck away from the coil you can see the small buildup of dark fluid on the deck as well as in the screw heads on the posts.
After 50 puffs: Noticable pooling on the deck and inside the post screws. At this point, if I tilt the hnp the wrong way, it WILL leak from the afc.
After 70 puffs: At this point the dark liquid on the deck has leaked out into the chamber and out of the AFC and run down the side of my mod (eventually onto my hand or potentially in my pocket). It can't be more than .25ml but you'd be surprised how much that looks like when it leaks out. You can see it start to build up again though.
90 puffs: Don't know if you can see from the picture but the liquid has been pooling again and there's a significant amount of liquid on both the deck and deck ring. You can see that my wicks are starting to lose saturation and therefore lose flavor. At this point I estimate there's only 20-25 puffs left in the tank (and I didn't fill it to capacity to make sure there was no overfill condition). It's about here that I would be tilting it so that the afc is pointing down while vaping (maybe about the 7 o'clock position so that I get the best possible condition for the liquid to hit both wicks for the rest of the tank) and it would definitely be flooding the chamber and leaking on me especially if it shifted into the wrong position in my pocket.
So during this controlled test I actually had a bit less leakage than I have been experiencing lately. But a test is a test and during it, I would have leaked twice. It appears that the leakage is not from over-wicking nor caused by fluff density. It seems to be caused by the liquid that comes off the coil and pools on the deck, deck ring, and around the posts - eventually to find its way into the chamber and out of the afc.
Do you guys have any build suggestions for me to avoid this issue?
At this point I'm going to line some of the excess space on the deck with a bit of cotton in the hopes that that will alleviate some of the leaking for awhile without affecting the airflow.
I'm still thinking I could use a bit of a raised lip on the air hole of the Heron v2.5 (heh) and hopefully that will fix some of the issue. the suggested belt clip would also let me carry it inverted to guarantee no pocket leaking until such time I could manually clear the chamber.
I'll report back on how the extra cotton on the deck works/lasts if it turns out to be helpful.
Wouldn't you know it, today's results while illustrating my issue, has been better today than most days. Anyway... here goes. Sorry if the pictures are not exceptionally clear. I'm taking them on my phone and if the light is too bright (reflecting off the ss surfaces) it doesn't quite focus correctly and its macro-level shooting is poor at best.
From the previous examples, we know my wick, coil, and fluff hasn't caused any flooding/over-wicking (while static and unvaped, even at fairly hot temperature). We also can conclude that walking about jostling the hnp in pocket (or even vibrating on the seat of a car) will not, by itself, cause major flooding.
The vaping test will show us the rest.
All puffs were measured to be appx 3-4 seconds long with 5-6 seconds in between. After the first ten puffs, puffs were taken in sets of 10 with 2 minutes of rest in between. during that time, the atty heated up a fair amount to "warm" but not nearly to "hot" as I achieved with the blow dryer. During rest periods, the hnp was stood up vertically resting on a level surface.
I vaped at appx 60° off vertical with the afc pointing somewhere between the 9 o'clock and 10 o'clock position - so that the posts were in the vertical position with the coil to the left (making sure there is flow to the lower wick at the very least and so that any liquid would not spill into the air hole).
After 5 puffs: No flooding/leaking but you can already see where the spatter from the coil is on the deck/posts/deck ring. Not enough liquid to affect the small piece of cotton I out as an indicator opposite the coil.
After 10 puffs: More liquid spraying from the coil. Enough to start saturating the small piece of cotton I put there as an indicator.
I took the cotton piece out as it already fulfilled its purpose. Notice the dark color. This cane from the coil and is darker than the liquid in the wick
After 30 puffs: Still wicking well (good contact with fluff without over-wicking). As I tilt the deck away from the coil you can see the small buildup of dark fluid on the deck as well as in the screw heads on the posts.
After 50 puffs: Noticable pooling on the deck and inside the post screws. At this point, if I tilt the hnp the wrong way, it WILL leak from the afc.
After 70 puffs: At this point the dark liquid on the deck has leaked out into the chamber and out of the AFC and run down the side of my mod (eventually onto my hand or potentially in my pocket). It can't be more than .25ml but you'd be surprised how much that looks like when it leaks out. You can see it start to build up again though.
90 puffs: Don't know if you can see from the picture but the liquid has been pooling again and there's a significant amount of liquid on both the deck and deck ring. You can see that my wicks are starting to lose saturation and therefore lose flavor. At this point I estimate there's only 20-25 puffs left in the tank (and I didn't fill it to capacity to make sure there was no overfill condition). It's about here that I would be tilting it so that the afc is pointing down while vaping (maybe about the 7 o'clock position so that I get the best possible condition for the liquid to hit both wicks for the rest of the tank) and it would definitely be flooding the chamber and leaking on me especially if it shifted into the wrong position in my pocket.
So during this controlled test I actually had a bit less leakage than I have been experiencing lately. But a test is a test and during it, I would have leaked twice. It appears that the leakage is not from over-wicking nor caused by fluff density. It seems to be caused by the liquid that comes off the coil and pools on the deck, deck ring, and around the posts - eventually to find its way into the chamber and out of the afc.
Do you guys have any build suggestions for me to avoid this issue?
At this point I'm going to line some of the excess space on the deck with a bit of cotton in the hopes that that will alleviate some of the leaking for awhile without affecting the airflow.
I'm still thinking I could use a bit of a raised lip on the air hole of the Heron v2.5 (heh) and hopefully that will fix some of the issue. the suggested belt clip would also let me carry it inverted to guarantee no pocket leaking until such time I could manually clear the chamber.
I'll report back on how the extra cotton on the deck works/lasts if it turns out to be helpful.
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aah... that's the one change I'm hesitant to try. After over 3 years of vaping I've found that I prefer the "micro coil" for flavor and vapor production. And actually, I've noticed less "spitting" with my coils touching that with spaced coil build. I'm not ruling it out, though, I'm just hesitant. Let me see how this build works and I'll try a spaced coil build again after.
This is not the first time I've used this build but previous builds have been around a 2.4mm shaft instead of the now 2mm shaft build (which seems to work better in the Heron v2)
@cliffy15 - I admire your tenacity. I hope this post is appropriate. Although I don't have a Heron V2 yet, I ran into a very challenging flooding issue out of the AFC with my Squape and after numerous tries the following pic shows how I have adapted it to your Heron V2
The goal is to wick with a single piece of KGD which not only fills the deck but is long enough to double up each side of the wick as you pull it through the juice slots in the cap. The net net is the deck is filled with a single piece of KGD and the juice slots have twice as much KGD in them. It will be a little tricky pulling the doubled up KGD through the juice slots so tweezers or a dental tool of some sort may be necessary. I would also prime the entire wick before you start positioning it which will make it easier to form. Just like on my Squape, if their is twice as much KGD in each juice slot it should ( I hope and pray) fix the issue. As long as the doubled up KGD is either in front of the juice slot or slightly in it, that would be my goal. If you decide to try this, I would eliminate what you guys call fluff in the top cap which holds the juice.
Good luck!
The goal is to wick with a single piece of KGD which not only fills the deck but is long enough to double up each side of the wick as you pull it through the juice slots in the cap. The net net is the deck is filled with a single piece of KGD and the juice slots have twice as much KGD in them. It will be a little tricky pulling the doubled up KGD through the juice slots so tweezers or a dental tool of some sort may be necessary. I would also prime the entire wick before you start positioning it which will make it easier to form. Just like on my Squape, if their is twice as much KGD in each juice slot it should ( I hope and pray) fix the issue. As long as the doubled up KGD is either in front of the juice slot or slightly in it, that would be my goal. If you decide to try this, I would eliminate what you guys call fluff in the top cap which holds the juice.
Good luck!
@SeniorBoy, thanks for the suggestion! I'll have to try that when I go back and tinker with the fluffless build (uses the cap).
Right now, the tests were run with a capless, fluffed build and the tests have proven (at least to me) that the flooding/leaking issues I've been dealing with is because there's a lot of liquid spatter and buildup, formed in the process of vaping that I haven't yet found a good way to deal with.
My current build has a single wick with a long tail end that wraps around much of the deck (similar to your idea) but I don't have to worry about the feed ports at the moment since this build doesn't use the cap.
After a night out, and a morning vape, this is what that build looks like:
Having the extra kgd around the deck has really helped to sop up the liquid that never made it out of the atty and causing my leaking. What's interesting is we can see the part of the tail that has the most saturation is directly opposite of the coil between the posts. I had a couple of very minor leaks though most of my time with it. However, while writing this post (and vaping) I was holding my HnP with the afc down for a bit and got this:
It appears I have not kicked the problem.
While I am considering other suggestions like the spaced-coil, I suspect that much of my current leakage may be caused by liquid falling directly through the airhole from the coil. We didn't have as much of an issue with the Spheroid and the previous Heron, perhaps, because the air hole was much smaller.
I'm wondering if my results would improve if I offset the coil positioning so that it wasn't directly over the air hole?
What continues to boggle my mind though, is that if my testing is correct this issue would be present in both fluffed and fluffless builds yet no one else seems to be having this type of problem.
*boggle*
Right now, the tests were run with a capless, fluffed build and the tests have proven (at least to me) that the flooding/leaking issues I've been dealing with is because there's a lot of liquid spatter and buildup, formed in the process of vaping that I haven't yet found a good way to deal with.
My current build has a single wick with a long tail end that wraps around much of the deck (similar to your idea) but I don't have to worry about the feed ports at the moment since this build doesn't use the cap.
After a night out, and a morning vape, this is what that build looks like:
Having the extra kgd around the deck has really helped to sop up the liquid that never made it out of the atty and causing my leaking. What's interesting is we can see the part of the tail that has the most saturation is directly opposite of the coil between the posts. I had a couple of very minor leaks though most of my time with it. However, while writing this post (and vaping) I was holding my HnP with the afc down for a bit and got this:
It appears I have not kicked the problem.
While I am considering other suggestions like the spaced-coil, I suspect that much of my current leakage may be caused by liquid falling directly through the airhole from the coil. We didn't have as much of an issue with the Spheroid and the previous Heron, perhaps, because the air hole was much smaller.
I'm wondering if my results would improve if I offset the coil positioning so that it wasn't directly over the air hole?
What continues to boggle my mind though, is that if my testing is correct this issue would be present in both fluffed and fluffless builds yet no one else seems to be having this type of problem.
*boggle*
FWIW, I've been following your posts that include your empirical tests and observations. I haven't had anything to add because I've only run my GP Heron v2 fluffless and I've been using Spheroid v4s (fluffless) exclusively for the past month. I do hope that you find a solution soon.
I can't help but think this has to be a sealing issue. Do you have a missing oring? I'm sure not but this has me stumped! I'm sure you checked that the tank tube and base are machined correctly and not warped? I just haven't seen this issue before.
Other than that - I got nuthin
Other than that - I got nuthin
Directly opposite huh. Now that almost sounds like its got itself vaporizing off the coil and then up to and dripping off the bell. Its sounding more like a higher bell, air leak, etc. This isn’t fluff or wick I don’t think. You’ve done more configurations than not.
And I know this may sound odd but have you tried a wide open air? When I run tighter air sometimes (depending on setup) I may get more moisture on my deck or even condensation under the pin. In fact if I run a dry-er hit on fresh builds I will sometimes block the hole and take a couple pulls to flow the juice and im set until next build. Think higher pressure vaccuum. A vac that may pull more juice than just gravity.
And I know this may sound odd but have you tried a wide open air? When I run tighter air sometimes (depending on setup) I may get more moisture on my deck or even condensation under the pin. In fact if I run a dry-er hit on fresh builds I will sometimes block the hole and take a couple pulls to flow the juice and im set until next build. Think higher pressure vaccuum. A vac that may pull more juice than just gravity.
Same here. Been following @cliffy15's escapades as well. Don't seem to understand what's wrong with his unit or build ~ My Heron V2 (fluffless) and Spheroid V4s (one fluffless and one with fluff) are problem free since getting them. And am using them exclusively for months. Have also built my Heron V2 with fluff during testing period ~ no issues.
As far as I can tell, there's nothing physically wrong with the Heron. All o-rings seem intact and no warping or other anomalies that I can detect. Everything fits perfectly into place (although I sometimes have a little difficulty getting the deck ring to seat properly around its o-ring).I can't help but think this has to be a sealing issue. Do you have a missing oring? I'm sure not but this has me stumped! I'm sure you checked that the tank tube and base are machined correctly and not warped? I just haven't seen this issue before.
Other than that - I got nuthin
I only leak from the afc. If I cover it and try to inhale, everything is completely sealed. Thanks for the suggestion though!
Could be! Although that drip would probably be nearer the right (high) post if it happens while I'm in position and vaping.
Opening up the afc is something I haven't tried, yet. I do have the opening quite small (maybe 1/4th - 1/3rd open) as I prefer a slightly tighter draw for mouth to lung hits - learned this from the early spheroid I think. I'll try opening it up completely and see if that makes a difference.
I prefer the same thing. So I tend to keep mine more than half closed. I was just throwing pasta at the wall to see if it would stick. You have covered a lot so im about ready to drop out of the build side.
WOW, Cliffy......I too have been distant for awhile but just got caught up!! Man, I hate to say it but with my Herons and Spheroids and as impatient as I am, your builds would make mine look like crap!! I wrap a coil, wick it, fluff it and no issues!! I know that offers you nothing but with all my inconsistencies and no leaks, dry hits, etc and with your precise measurements and determination, I surely hope you get it worked out!!
And yes, the bench was fun!!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
And yes, the bench was fun!!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
My my my! Elegant and just arrived yesterday. 
When do I learn the secret handshake? Saving my money for a Heron V2.
Danka all!
When do I learn the secret handshake? Saving my money for a Heron V2.
Danka all!
We developed a new topper addressed to the fluff builds mainly, but it may benefit the fluffless ones considerably. This new topper has an additional advantage of being more friendly for the coil during adjustments and it is reminiscent of the v1.5 topper. It is in production right now and it will be sent to Heron v2 first owners only, free of charge without any need to contact us during the next weeks.
This is awesome!We developed a new topper addressed to the fluff builds mainly, but it may benefit the fluffless ones considerably. This new topper has an additional advantage of being more friendly for the coil during adjustments and it is reminiscent of the v1.5 topper. It is in production right now and it will be sent to Heron v2 first owners only, free of charge without any need to contact us during the next weeks.
Update: I have some promising news (but still need to do more testing to confirm)!
Yankee's suggestion seems to be having an immediate effect.
I opened the afc completely, yesterday, and vaped the afternoon away with it with good results. I'll have to switch back to the old short, two ended wick without a cotton-lined deck to confirm.
I probably won't have to do the exhaustive test to confirm this but I will if I still run into issues.
This tells me that the excess fluid that accumulates, and eventually floods/leaks, is due to an imbalance between liquid vaporized and air flow. Basically I think I'm getting too much vapor and not enough airflow to clear it from the atty. At least I think that's what it's telling me. Or, to much resistance in the airflow might actually be pulling to much liquid into the wick/coil by creating a vacuum situation (as Yankee pointed out).
How do I fix that, though? I do not especially like an open airflow unless I'm lung vaping; something I rarely do. I'm currently getting an airy, less-saturated vape.
The only thing I can think of is, maybe, adding a turn or two to my coil to increase the resistance and lower vapor production (I'm currently using a 1.2 ohm coil)? Suggestions are welcome.
For now, I'm going to have to rewick to confirm testing. I have the afc set to appx 2/3rds open and its still too airy for me. It gurgled a bit after awhile with some small leaks. I need to finish testing while wide-open just to confirm the results before I can change the setup.
edit: fixed as many tyops as I could find
Yankee's suggestion seems to be having an immediate effect.
I opened the afc completely, yesterday, and vaped the afternoon away with it with good results. I'll have to switch back to the old short, two ended wick without a cotton-lined deck to confirm.
I probably won't have to do the exhaustive test to confirm this but I will if I still run into issues.
This tells me that the excess fluid that accumulates, and eventually floods/leaks, is due to an imbalance between liquid vaporized and air flow. Basically I think I'm getting too much vapor and not enough airflow to clear it from the atty. At least I think that's what it's telling me. Or, to much resistance in the airflow might actually be pulling to much liquid into the wick/coil by creating a vacuum situation (as Yankee pointed out).
How do I fix that, though? I do not especially like an open airflow unless I'm lung vaping; something I rarely do. I'm currently getting an airy, less-saturated vape.
The only thing I can think of is, maybe, adding a turn or two to my coil to increase the resistance and lower vapor production (I'm currently using a 1.2 ohm coil)? Suggestions are welcome.
For now, I'm going to have to rewick to confirm testing. I have the afc set to appx 2/3rds open and its still too airy for me. It gurgled a bit after awhile with some small leaks. I need to finish testing while wide-open just to confirm the results before I can change the setup.
edit: fixed as many tyops as I could find
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Well. Im glad its working better. And I agree that if it were me id want to figure out next steps as I don’t care for the barn door to be wide open.
I know that the specs are different between v1.x and v2 so this is where I would rather defer to those who have it since the build may be dictated by some changes. But I would assume that increasing the ohm to above 1.2 by itself is not the answer as im sure some vape it below 1. At least it shouldn’t be.
I know that the specs are different between v1.x and v2 so this is where I would rather defer to those who have it since the build may be dictated by some changes. But I would assume that increasing the ohm to above 1.2 by itself is not the answer as im sure some vape it below 1. At least it shouldn’t be.
If you compare the slots of the toppers from Spheroid v4 and Heron v2, you'll observe that the latter has smaller ones to compensate for the heavier mass of liquid, to control the wicking ability and avoid flooding the base. This advantage is missed when we remove the topper for a fluff build with v2, so we developed the one hole topper for these builds, as we did with the v1.5 Heron. The fact that some reviewers and users promoted the fluffless builds for v1.5 due to the existence of the topper is actually irrelevant with the initial purpose of its design.
@cliffy15 - this talk about the large air hole is exactly the same kind of gyrations I went through with my Squape and the deck has 4 smallish juice holes. I'm with you through thick and thin as I also prefer a somewhat tight draw so it drove me crazy until I wicked as per my post. /hint Your not vaping motor oil are you? /joke I assume it's 50/50 with a medium viscosity and not a gunker. Please put the bloody "cap/topper" on with the juice slots and go!
P...that's a very very nice gesture and much appreciated. And where is "Q" our resident guru with a "Cliff Build Vid" /lol /joke
Good luck!
Your not vaping motor oil are you? /joke I assume it's 50/50 with a medium viscosity and not a gunker. Please put the bloody "cap/topper" on with the juice slots and go!P...that's a very very nice gesture and much appreciated. And where is "Q" our resident guru with a "Cliff Build Vid" /lol /joke
Good luck!
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