GP Series by VapourArt - Official Thread for GP Spheroid, GP PAPS, X, GP Piccolo, GP SnP and more - Part 3

[cliffy15]

Since the last picture showed what would be a flood, I rewicked with extra long tails, pushed the middle to the deck and have the tails pointing up to the fluff.

If this doesn't work I guess I'll try making a vertical coil directly above the air hole and completely surround the coil with wick and leave some pointy tails up into the fluff. Not looking forward to that.

If that doesn't work then ... well ... I dunno.

The only other thing I can think of its to use less wick) stuff the coil full of wick and then cut maybe half of the wick away. But I've kind of already done that with my dual wick setup.

 

[rockstarr]

Imho, there's no much difference between a fluffless Spheroid / Heron (tank mode) to a setup with fluff (Spheroid mode). On the flavor front. Yes, there is a slight, very slight hike - but for most folks it'd be indistinguishable. I don't notice any significant increase / decrease in flavor between the two modes.

There's just one reason I'd build them with fluff - and that's for a 100% non-leaking setup under changing altitudes. Like when on flight or mountaineering, rappelling, skiing or while driving thru a seriously hilly terrain, or if living in a penthouse atop a skyscraper. For our day-to-day use the Spheroid / Herons don't leak at all. Zero in my case.

I opine again, Spheroid has been made better with the V4. And so is the Heron with it's V2. There are various reasons to that - like reducing the length, alignment of logos, change in coil positioning (rebuilding made easier) etc. But the fact that we now have a choice ~ to build them with fluff or without - is a discerning factor on its favor. There's one serious extra effort been eliminated here. Saves time as well.

Both, the Spheroid V4 and the Heron V2 can be setup in a jiffy. Under 5 minutes each. A hasslefree building experience. And both vape exactly as their predecessors - lovely, tasty vapes. And I'm loving it!

This is perfectly said! I mostly vape fluffless on my Heron V2 for reasons Q pointed out, except when I know I'll be dealing with altitude changes, for me this is the only time I use fluff. Usually when I get where I'm going, the first thing I do is remove my fluff, clean it, and save to put back in for a flight home. I love the dump juice in tank and go method Q uses in his video. I was starting to think I was the only one using it fluffless.... Love the HV2 King P

 

[cliffy15]

Nope... leaks. I'm frustrated.Going to shelve for now. How to keep wicks from wicking when saturated ?!

 

[Fyla]

Nope... leaks. I'm frustrated.Going to shelve for now. How to keep wicks from wicking when saturated ?!

I think you have problem with fluff, not with wick. Your fluff doesn't hold liquid firm enough, so when wick touches fluff, you get consistent liquid travel and there you get flooding. What fluff you use. Try even more than maximum you have so far

 

[perseas]

I was going to say exactly that, the coil and cotton are fine. The fluff is not the same for all juices even if they are 50/50 PG/VG, they don't have the same viscosity when they are heated.

Lance, we are going to fix your issue, no worries, I read your posts and I kept notes about possible solutions, beyond fluff. Just give us a few days time to prepare them. During our tests we didn't come in front of a similar situation, but this doesn't cancel your observations of course. In the meantime, try please a build with more fluff than before to make sure that this issue is unrelated with the quantity/density of the filler material.

 

[qorax]

In my opinion he (@cliffy15) is using way too less cotton as well. Some folks take the adage, "less is more", a bit too far. Cotton should not slide in freely ~ there should be some resistance while it is being inserted into the coil. A wispy wick will not be able to hold juice even between draws - and would dump it freely into the airhole below.

 

[cliffy15]

okay... without quoting everyone (because that would be a long quote). And a new symptom at the end of this post

too little fluff: this would be my obvious thought, too, and my original one. I've gone from 110mm all the way up to 190mm (still got the occasional leak at 190). Perseas has, once, agreed that 190mm is too much. Since then I have started at 130mm and the latest build is 160mm. I could go with more fluff if you guys think I should try again but it already holds very little liquid.

too little cotton (from q): unless you mean longer cotton tails, I really can't fit any more cotton through the coil. It's already enough volume that it's at a firm pull through the coil after being rolled with my fingers.

As for the new symptom from the latest build (the one with the long tails with the middle pushed to the deck and the tails pointing straight up): I'm noticing for the first time that the liquid leaking out is sometimes a little darker than the liquid that I put in less than an hour before.

To me this indicates that the liquid leaking through the AFC has gone through the heated coil (maybe even spattered off of it) before coming out but I don't know if there's anything I can do about that.

The one thing that I'm going to try for now, is taking one of my tails and laying it on the deck again since it seems like I have too much flow rather than not enough.

 

[qorax]

Hmm, I think I have to make a fluff video. Was avoiding it 'coz I generally don't prefer the Heron/Spheroid with filler material. But I guess for @cliffy15 I have to. My Spheroid V4 with fluff has zero issues.

 

[cliffy15]

I was going to say exactly that, the coil and cotton are fine. The fluff is not the same for all juices even if they are 50/50 PG/VG, they don't have the same viscosity when they are heated.

Lance, we are going to fix your issue, no worries, I read your posts and I kept notes about possible solutions, beyond fluff. Just give us a few days time to prepare them. During our tests we didn't come in front of a similar situation, but this doesn't cancel your observations of course. In the meantime, try please a build with more fluff than before to make sure that this issue is unrelated with the quantity/density of the filler material.

Thanks, P. I hope I don't come across as complaining. I'm coming from the viewpoint that if I ask for help I'd better be giving exact specifics of what I'm doing and where I've made adjustments.

There hasn't been much talk here about builds recently except for the fluffless tutorials and the Heron builds that h00ligan and I have been posting so I assume that most people are either running fluffless or not having issues.

This leads me to believe that I am failing at something basic (and NOT something wrong with the product).

Maybe I need to just step away and take a break. Maybe I need fresh eyes. For me it's hard not to kind of obsess over it since this is something I use all day every day.

I'm kind of running out of options in my head. Maybe I can use one tail. Maybe I can take another crack at increasing my fluff length. But short of having someone take pictures/video of me installing my fluff, I can't figure out where my mistake is and I've been using the previous Heron since it's release.

 

[cliffy15]

Imho, there's no much difference between a fluffless Spheroid / Heron (tank mode) to a setup with fluff (Spheroid mode). On the flavor front. Yes, there is a slight, very slight hike - but for most folks it'd be indistinguishable. I don't notice any significant increase / decrease in flavor between the two modes.

There's just one reason I'd build them with fluff - and that's for a 100% non-leaking setup under changing altitudes. Like when on flight or mountaineering, rappelling, skiing or while driving thru a seriously hilly terrain, or if living in a penthouse atop a skyscraper. For our day-to-day use the Spheroid / Herons don't leak at all. Zero in my case.

I opine again, Spheroid has been made better with the V4. And so is the Heron with it's V2. There are various reasons to that - like reducing the length, alignment of logos, change in coil positioning (rebuilding made easier) etc. But the fact that we now have a choice ~ to build them with fluff or without - is a discerning factor on its favor. There's one serious extra effort been eliminated here. Saves time as well.

Both, the Spheroid V4 and the Heron V2 can be setup in a jiffy. Under 5 minutes each. A hasslefree building experience. And both vape exactly as their predecessors - lovely, tasty vapes. And I'm loving it!

Thought that since I was on, I'd reply to this too.

To me, the fluffless build offers no advantage over the fluffed build - unless my fluffed build leaks like it has.

To me, the draw of the Heron was its ability to use in EVERY circumstance that I am in with a single build and no adjustments. This was the biggest differentiating factor for the GP brand over all the others that I've tried.

Yes, the materials, quality of craftsmanship, customer support, and design aesthetics are top notch but a fluffless Heron doesn't work any differently than the other RTAs out there (without flow control) and I don't want to deal with the issues that normal tanks have.

This is the reason my Heron v1 has replaced all of my other atties for everyday use (in fact I'm still way behind in PIFing my other gear off to people): One build works in EVERY situation - from sea level to 12,000 feet and from 32°F to 95°+ (although you can't leave it out in the sun). I can carry it with it flopping about in loose cargo shorts or more tightly in my jeans. I can store it vertically or horizontally. I don't have to rebuild or even empty while traveling with it. Heck, I can even vape while lying flat on my back in bed.

In fact, once the right build has been found, the only time my Heron malfunctions is due to operator error - over-filled or needs cleaning. That's it.

Few, if any, other atties can honestly make this claim and if there are others, let me know because they might see an occasional rotation or two with my GP stuff

Now, my Heron v2 setup currently isn't performing as well as I'd like but I'm confident that I can find that build again which is why I'm working hard to find it. The v2 has some improvements that I like (and some things I don't) but the fluffless build, though I've played with it, was never meant to be my all-day, everyday build. It's nice to have that option and I'm sure a lot of other people like that option as well.

On a side note: I actually got bored a few times, before the release of the Heron v2, because I didn't have anything new to tinker/play with so I've actually bought several other atties (not the super high-end ones) just to toy with and, while popular, none of those fit the bill for me.

 

[yankeebobo]

One thing I would try is to “fluff out” the ends of the wick. I don’t know if that would help and I don’t see it as eliminating your problem. But that would increase the surface contact with the fluff.

If you experienced that with 190mm of fluff, that seems like an awful amount but for the sake of eliminating the possibilities I would likely try the same thing. I know that on my spheroid v4 the fluff has zero issues as Q experienced. But in each of my spheroid setups I have the ends of the wick fluffed out. even with the Heron v1 and cotton topper.

 

[cliffy15]

I have a couple more diagnostic tests to run to narrow it down because I suspect that the issue occurs only while vaping or immediately after.

First I'm going to rewick (I'll even fluff the ends), refill, and let sit for a couple of hours: first upright then horizontally with the wick side down towards the surface.

If that is fine I'm going to walk around with it in my pocket (various positions that it does all by itself).

This will be done without vaping it at all to see if it leaks only while vaping it.

 

[yankeebobo]

Don’t wear white. Just sayin

 

[cliffy15]

Disassembled, wiped down, and rewicked with kgd. Wick is firmly pulled through the 2mm 1.2-ohm kanthal coil. Coil is away from posts. Wick length cut to the end of the deck ring, fluffed, and slightly angled. Top of coil is even with highest post. Almost 2mm of gap between coil and air hole (although I didn't take the calipers to it).

A different angle

I even put a thin rolled up piece of cotton along the deck ring (not touching the posts as an additional indicator)

12mm x 160mm fluff (twice as much as the original Heron v1 that I use with 50/50 liquid). It's been fluffed and there are no gaps. Sits appx 1-2mm higher than the end of the bell shaft. Filled to slightly less than full saturation. Tuned over on paper towel for 30 minutes with no liquid leakage. Even heated it a bit with a blow dryer set to medium heat with no leakage.

Wicks slightly primed but not fully saturated

Reassembling and will check back after an hour.

edit: ambient temperature is approximately 78°F.

 

[yankeebobo]

Damn!
Go cliffy go

 

[cliffy15]

Update to GP Series by VapourArt - Official Thread for GP Spheroid, GP PAPS, X, GP Piccolo, GP SnP and more - Part 3.

Let build stand for 90 minutes. Deck and deck ring remained completely dry. No over-wicking.

Took the hair dryer to it on high heat and heated until rather hot to the touch (don't have a way to accurately measure the surface temp). Let stand upright for 30 minutes. Deck and deck ring completely dry. No over-wicking.

Applied hair dryer on high heat again until the Heron and some of the mod was hot to the touch. Let sit horizontally with wicks and afc facing down for 60 minutes. Deck and deck ring remained completely dry. No over-wicking.

Next up is pocket test and maybe a drive a little later.

Only after that will I vape it. Then report back.

Is it possible that the liquid that is leaking is from the spatter/flow off the coil while vaping? If so, what can I do about that?

 

[cliffy15]

btw, this is the comparable build that I'm vaping on the Heron v1. This is the first time I'm running without the cotton topper and without a single-loop wick with the tails pointing down and wrapping around the posts on either side of the deck. Using the same liquid and a similar 2mm kanthal coil that reads at 1.2 ohms.

It is not over-wicking but it IS pooling liquid on the deck. Hopefully you can see it. You should also notice that the liquid pooling is darker than my liquid indicating that this liquid has been vaped and spattered/drip dripped off the wick (it's not condensation as that is light-colored like the condensate that forms between the Heron bell and drip tip).

I vaped it fine all day yesterday and most of today. It JUST started leaking a small amount of dark liquid out of the afc. I don't think it's coming from the pooled liquid because of the raised air hole. Is it possible that it's coming directly from the coil?

If it is, the problem would only be worse in the Heron v2 since there is no raised air hole and that air hole is much larger.

Going to try with the looped build in the Heron v1 but am I really the ONLY one having these issues?

 

[MsLoud]

I would be shocked if it were. As I said before, I use readyxwick and though there is some light glossing ofeliquid on the deck, it never causes a leak. Lemmie get a pic.

This is a Spheroid but you get the idea.

 

[cliffy15]

Continuing GP Series by VapourArt - Official Thread for GP Spheroid, GP PAPS, X, GP Piccolo, GP SnP and more - Part 3

The results are in. Even after the walk in pocket (upright) and a short drive the deck of the unvaped Heron is still dry. For now, that means.... no overwicking, fluff is sufficient. not flooding because of warmth. No flooding because of position. wick/coil not creating a path for liquid to follow down.

Still dry. Now I will have to start the vape testing.

 

[paladinx]

@MsLoud Where do you buy your ready wick from? I always wanted to try it, but just got scared when I heard the particles go into your lungs.