Agreed, good to have solid information to make wise decisions.Hopefully this will get the ball rolling dispelling some widely held preconceived notions.
Thanks for posting this @mikepetro.
And special thanks to @Kurt.
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New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
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well I would get a ss coil to try out in my cloud beast but they don't sell them . I'm currently vaping at 100 watts and it seems quite a cool vape so I'm thinking I'm probably ok. But who knows? Hmm . I guess this will be on the news tonight or in the morning . This study has been done before but in the last one they deliberately burnt all the coils .
I've been trying to find some sort of calculator online to punch in numbers for kantal to see temp. results with not much luck thus far. SE doesn't have an option for kantal in TC.
You missed my point.
What they have done is to measure the temperature at 10W on whatever atty. Could still be be too high on some, just btw.
Then they heated PG, VG, PG/VG to certain temperatures. Then they compared.
That's cute and all, but whats missing is an actual analysis of E-Zig vapor. That's been done before and no one found Carbonyls apart from trace amounts.
I have also read that when PG/VG breaks into Carbonyls, CO2 is formed. I have measured E-Zig vapor for CO/CO2 like 500+ times and have never found anything.
Bottom line...While this sure is interesting; but for actual "real life" exposure please analyse the vapor itself.
Ding ding!
Also would like to thank @mikepetro for sharing, as it's usually a one and done troll post from others.
Right? I usually skip those who join and make one post and leave. I'm will pay attention to someone I've known on the forums for a while, and this information is something we have all wanted to some extent so the messenger does make a difference.
I would also keep in mind that we call "temperature" on a TC mod is not the same as that particular study's method. They wee using a themocouple to measure temperature. A TC mod does not measure temperature, it extrapolates the temperature from the resistance of the wire and the change as current is applied relying on the TCR of the metal. They also note in the conclusions that the use of a SS chamber might have affected the breakdown products measured.
I think we would all agree that even in the absence of objective test data, a high power dry hit just can't be healthy for you. While this particular study and its relation to Evolv is interesting, it was not the only presentation at that meeting. There are other data presented that are relevant. As @beckdg already posted this slide.
It's pretty clear that with newer hardware than a CE4 clearo, potential emissions of toxic byproducts is significantly lower even at modest power settings (in W not Temp).
This was seen up to 26W. If you want to extrapolate that to higher power settings, it still would remain pretty low.
All of the presentations came to the essentially same conclusion, vaping beats smoking, never smoking is better than starting. Evidence for vaping to act as a gateway for teens to smoke cigarettes (even with flavorings) is scant at best. More long term information is required to assure a net health benefit and correlation with smoking cessation. There is benefit for a smoker who converts to vaping alone (not dual use). I'm not terribly surprised by those findings, and am encouraged that more data is being generated on vaping and health.
Oh, and the temp control thing? Interesting but I wouldn't be running to buy a DNA board for TC just because of this study. I don't want them selling out as I'm planning on placing a few orders later this week.
Edit: OK, I tried to give a link back to beckdg post earlier in this thread, but it got messed up. Beckdg already posted this slide. I just used it again for emphasis.
Edit #2: Oh, I just noticed something on that slide that may peeve some here, but they chose to run their test with a KF clone, not authentic.
I think we would all agree that even in the absence of objective test data, a high power dry hit just can't be healthy for you. While this particular study and its relation to Evolv is interesting, it was not the only presentation at that meeting. There are other data presented that are relevant. As @beckdg already posted this slide.
It's pretty clear that with newer hardware than a CE4 clearo, potential emissions of toxic byproducts is significantly lower even at modest power settings (in W not Temp).
This was seen up to 26W. If you want to extrapolate that to higher power settings, it still would remain pretty low.
All of the presentations came to the essentially same conclusion, vaping beats smoking, never smoking is better than starting. Evidence for vaping to act as a gateway for teens to smoke cigarettes (even with flavorings) is scant at best. More long term information is required to assure a net health benefit and correlation with smoking cessation. There is benefit for a smoker who converts to vaping alone (not dual use). I'm not terribly surprised by those findings, and am encouraged that more data is being generated on vaping and health.
Oh, and the temp control thing? Interesting but I wouldn't be running to buy a DNA board for TC just because of this study. I don't want them selling out as I'm planning on placing a few orders later this week.
Edit: OK, I tried to give a link back to beckdg post earlier in this thread, but it got messed up. Beckdg already posted this slide. I just used it again for emphasis.
Edit #2: Oh, I just noticed something on that slide that may peeve some here, but they chose to run their test with a KF clone, not authentic.
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My wife loves using CE4's on an Ego for out and about. In an attempt to mitigate any current concerns, here's what I think we will do.
Stick to the 3.7 volt/2.4 ohm combo that is about six watts
Avoid repeated vapes without a break
Keep it full of liquid
Replace them more frequently
As she is using a 2/3 PG blend which flows well, the coil remains wet. As an experienced vaper, she tops off her tank well before it is empty. Based on what I've been able to find so far, the vapor temp should be below 400 degrees in this application.
I understand some belittle top coils but I believe using them to produce small plumes at lower watts, they remain relatively safe. Pushing them at higher wattages, even eight to 10, has always been unpleasant and uncomfortable, so a test of them at 10 watts seems unrealistic to me regardless of puff duration and frequency.
That said, CE4's are dependent on the user more than some newer styles. It begins with liquid which is thin and flows well, keeping wicking optimal. In the current market, thicker liquids and higher power are the norm, so that new vapers don't have a high PG choice to support the wicking and lower power a top coil requires. For those reasons, a new vaper should most likely avoid them.
I'm trying to keep us safe while not giving up a successful vaping style which we prefer. Keeping up with further information is important given this research and I will continue to look for more definitive answers.
Stick to the 3.7 volt/2.4 ohm combo that is about six watts
Avoid repeated vapes without a break
Keep it full of liquid
Replace them more frequently
As she is using a 2/3 PG blend which flows well, the coil remains wet. As an experienced vaper, she tops off her tank well before it is empty. Based on what I've been able to find so far, the vapor temp should be below 400 degrees in this application.
I understand some belittle top coils but I believe using them to produce small plumes at lower watts, they remain relatively safe. Pushing them at higher wattages, even eight to 10, has always been unpleasant and uncomfortable, so a test of them at 10 watts seems unrealistic to me regardless of puff duration and frequency.
That said, CE4's are dependent on the user more than some newer styles. It begins with liquid which is thin and flows well, keeping wicking optimal. In the current market, thicker liquids and higher power are the norm, so that new vapers don't have a high PG choice to support the wicking and lower power a top coil requires. For those reasons, a new vaper should most likely avoid them.
I'm trying to keep us safe while not giving up a successful vaping style which we prefer. Keeping up with further information is important given this research and I will continue to look for more definitive answers.
until you use tc you have no idea the difference, it's the spikes in wattage mode that you really notice. I personally enjoy Tc, takes the guessing out on how long to hold down the fire button.
This was real data reported back off of real users who installed the ECIGSTATS program that reported all the data back to Evolv. So this is real life data. This particular graph just showed samples at 10W (typical of a tootle puffer), but they have real life data from something like 180,000 users, not some made up lab conditions.
Please look at all the videos and read the reports. These tests did indeed analyze real vapor, under conditions that people are actually vaping at.
The whole point here is that watts, voltage, coil, etc are not the "cause and effect" link. Temperature is the link. Then they measured our juice constituents at various temperatures and plotted where the carcinogens started being created.
Its all about temperature!
Am I reading this correctly? Does this mean that one would have to take a 30 second draw to get to these levels? I am thinking that this is the graft that was produced when a topper was hooked to a machine to simulate vaping and the machine was able to do something no one in their right mind would ever do.
Am I reading this correctly? Does this mean that one would have to take a 30 second draw to get to these levels? I am thinking that this is the graft that was produced when a topper was hooked to a machine to simulate vaping and the machine was able to do something no one in their right mind would ever do.
No, this was in the context of "vape getting hotter when chain vaping". These are successive hits with a 30second break in between. They were demonstrating that in this scenario puff 5 was hotter than puff 1 without TC being used.
I believe that means a 30 second pause between puffs.Am I reading this correctly? Does this mean that one would have to take a 30 second draw to get to these levels? I am thinking that this is the graft that was produced when a topper was hooked to a machine to simulate vaping and the machine was able to do something no one in their right mind would ever do.
What's bumming me is that I'm a bf vaper and I have never enjoyed a TC vape. Maybe it's the spaced coil or the temperature being too cold. It's never hot enough unless I'm on a mech.
Maybe I'm stupid.
Maybe I'm stupid.
Nothing stupid, we like what we like.
I do think its important for us to be aware of the risks though. Then we can make informed decisions about how we choose to vape.
maybe it was the wire you didn't like maybe the mod was to blame maybe you truly cannot be satisfied with Tc at "safe" temps. I've liked spaced coils for years now, seems to keep up with my chain vaping better. For me the biggest change was no more hot spikes. But average temperature staying the same. I rather enjoy 400f with my 6 wrap 4mm 26awg ss316L spaced dual coils . But that is me.
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