Petar K Method with a hybrid Wick

Discussion in 'Modding Forum' started by EDO, Dec 26, 2012.

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  1. EDO

    EDO Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I posted this in another part of the forum but I think a lot of Modders will find this post very beneficial.
    This is a link to how to make a hybrid SS mesh cotton wick.

    Mesh/Cotton hybrid wick Bluegrasslover's method - YouTube


    This hybrid wick makes setting up a genesis style atomizer in the traditional way of wrapping coils completely foolproof. No more hotspots to worry about and the taste is just like a well set up genesis IMO.... even better. The only problem is once you set it up...you are stuck. You can't clean the coils by dry burns. You can't change the cotton unless you redo the coil. You can't clean the wick unless you redo the coil.

    IMO the best way to setup a genesis style atomizer with ss mesh is by the Petar K method. Here is the link:

    Unoxidized SetUp - Tutorial on Vimeo

    The great thing about this method is you get perfect coils using a drill bit. You size your wick to the coil. And once set up...not only you can do dry burns but you can also easily remove the wick so you can glow your coils and clean the wick. But this is not a foolproof method... many people will struggle with it if they use an unoxidized wick or if they make their oxidized wicks too solid.

    BY combining both methods you can have the best of both worlds....the easiest setup with the ability to maintain your coils and wick.

    SO make the perfect coil using the Petar K method. When you roll your wick....roll it to a point that it is just tiny bit too thin and falls through the coil. Now add little bit of cotton to the wick in the area where it is going to be in contact with the coil (see video in first link). Add some eliquid to cotton and slide the hybrid wick through the coil. This time the wick won't fall through because of the cotton. Vape away!!! I think you will agree that the vape is amazing.

    What is great about this method is that you don't have to oxidize your wick...you don't' ever have to worry about hot spots any more or adjusting coils etc. You can still pull your wick out to maintain your coils/wicks. The wicking greatly improves with the hybrid wick b/c the cotton acts as a reserve so you will not get dry hits. The break in time is minimized. The taste is amazing.
     
  2. Ulmer

    Ulmer Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    How long does this combined wick operate properly without replacement?
     
  3. slimest

    slimest Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    EDO, first of all - you should not oxidize wicks made from SS mesh. You have to burn them with some organic liquid to achieve insulation layer. Then, if you cover your SS mesh wick with something else, you lose the main concept of Genesis. I this case - why mesh, use only your beloved material.
    If I follow your method, I possibly get good "short time" results during testing, but I will not get the worth of the real Genisis - long time stabile vaping with this special taste.
     
  4. EDO

    EDO Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I just started doing this a 4 days ago and I haven't had to replace the cotton yet....I go through 6-8ml of liquid a day. The way I set it up you can slide out the wick... glow your coil for 1 second and slide it back in and within 30 seconds your coil/set up will perform like brand new. It takes about 1 minute to convert your SSmesh into a hybrid wick so if this lasts me a week....I see no problems with it.
     
  5. Ulmer

    Ulmer Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Can you show a microphoto of your wick after a week of work?
     
  6. EDO

    EDO Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Hi... My post wasn't really about oxidation of the wick. My post was done to introduce people to the hybrid wick and to help people set it up perfectly. But obviously I didn't do a good job of it. So in regard to your reply regarding oxidation of SS Mesh. Most people just torch their wicks to oxidize them. I don't oxidize or do flame burns or do anything to my mesh when doing a SS mesh set up. If you do your coils perfectly and your roll a perfectly cylindrical mesh to fit inside the coils in the right way...you don't need any treatment done to the mesh at all. Most people can't do this so they have to oxidize or do flame burns to their mesh. With the hybrid wick no one will need to oxidize/flame burn the SS mesh.

    If you watch the hybrid wick video I posted....you will notice that you apply a very thin coat of cotton to the SS wick. SO thin that once you put liquid on it it is almost transparent. It really doesn't effect the vape.... but It just makes your set up super stable...you will never have a hot spot, hot coil, initial metallic taste, dry hit, low ohm error ever again. Most people think they are in vaping heaven with a genesis style atomizer but they don't know how good it really could be. If you need to treat your SS Mesh in way...like flame burning them or oxidizing them to get it to work....you don't have an optimal set up. I do have an optimal set up with my genesis atomizers using SS mesh alone....and my the hybrid wick set up perfectly replicates it. It is just a lot easier to do. So far I have been using it for 4 days and I vape a lot and this thing just works.

    I have been vaping for a while now....I promise you this is definitely worth trying.
     
  7. EDO

    EDO Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Ulmer...well I have been using it for 4 days now and I vape a lot. I have been exclusively vaping this and noting else.....I have gone almost through 30 ml of liquid with this set up. The set up looks like day one. But I did take out the wick and rinse it under water this morning and patted it dry with a paper towel. I have never used cotton before this....so I don't know If the cotton itself won't disintegrate after a while but if it doesn't you can clean out the cotton again and again very easily.
     
  8. bail804

    bail804 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    EDO,
    What do you mean about making the wick "too Solid"? I think I will try this method and I will post my results. I have found I have better results with 500 mesh rolled solid vs the straw type wicks. Are you saying that a 500 mesh wick rolled solid wont work?
    I assume the key is to never let the wick run dry. I would suppose the cotton would burn quite quickly if not saturated. Had any issues burning up the cotton?
     
  9. EDO

    EDO Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Bail804 are you wanting to know about the Petar k Method using SS Mesh alone or with the Hybrid Wick? If asking about the SS Mesh only...If you make a very solid and stiff SS wick....you are going to struggle with shorts and hot spots. In its pure form you should not be oxidizing your wicks with the Petar K method. The coil and fit of the wick have to be spot on. The stiffer the wick the more you will struggle with shorts. His wicks are flexible, straw like, and unoxidized. I make my wicks more solid than he does but they are still flexible.

    With the hybrid wick you can make the ss Mesh as solid and tight and stiff as you like. If you want to oxidize it you can... if not... don't. Since you use thin layer of cotton to insulate the SS wick....its foolproof....and the set up is super stable....I haven't adjusted my coils since I set it up. I have gone through 35 ml of liquid with it and still works perfect.

    Edit: The cotton has held up real well...I can't believe how resilient cotton is...never used it before. As far as saturation.... it stays saturated always.
     
  10. bail804

    bail804 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Im vaping using the Hybrid wick now. I just started using gene's and have only ever wrapped the coil around a drill bit. Was working on a solid wick for about 30 mins eliminating shorts. Grabbed a piece of 30 mm wide 500 mesh and rolled it down. Applied some cotton to the end. Added a few drops of juice and rolled it tight around the end of the wick. Slipped it in. Ohms did not move. Filled half a tank and started vaping away. 5 mins at most. I like how easy it was to get the wick the right size. The cotton takes up the space nicely and it does not have to be nearly as accurate as 100% mesh. Best flavor I have ever gotten so far. Just leary I'm going to let it run dry and burn the cotton. I guess I have inhaled worse. LOL.
     
  11. bail804

    bail804 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Couldn't stand it. Had to see what it was going to take to burn the cotton. Held it vertical and ran it till...poof. Having trouble duplicating the set up. When I burnt up the cotton, I could not remove wick without removing the coil I had set-up. Made several atempts and just cant find the flavor. I am new at this so might be in the coil. No problem getting the wick made...thats for sure.
     
  12. EDO

    EDO Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Bail804....I wish you had waited for me to reply before burning off the cotton. Ok, with a solid wick...whether you want it or not the cotton will be saturated at all times. You probably noticed that the cotton was getting black around the coils....that's not burning cotton it is the liquid gunk that is being absorbed by the cotton. If you had slid the wick out and took the cotton off and rinsed it under water....you would have seen that the cotton was in perfect shape. As an experiment I went through 40 ml of liquid with the same cotton before deciding to change it and it was in pretty good shape when I rinsed out the gunk. It is far easier to just take the cotton off by hand and replace it with new cotton than to try and rinse out the gunk. Another good way of removing the gunk is just to get some paper towel and roll the wick inside it....you'll remove 90% of the gunk that way.

    I am glad you tried this out and were able to get a good set up the first time. NOw you know what a good ss wick set up should taste like. If you do the drill method right with SS mesh only it should taste the same. It will be harder to accomplish though. If you watch the PetarK video... just the part where he makes the coil...it will help you a lot. Once you set up the coil like he does....roll your ss mesh so it is a little bit thin and falls through the coil. Remember that rollling the wick in one direction tightens it and rolling it backwards loosens up the wick and makes it wider....most people don't know that and they go back and forth on the wick and they get a sloppy wick. Now add a very thin layer of the cotton...add liquid to the cotton and roll with your fingers so that it is very tight...slide it in and you should be good to go. Your set up might be even good now .....you might have to go through a half a tank before it gets perfect.
     
  13. bail804

    bail804 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Im not going to give up on it just yet. Just wanted to see what it would take to burn the wick. Just experimenting. I think my set up is the problem...not the wick. Getting the correct watts to the coil and the correct gauge for the juice is..well trial and error. I will continue to experement with this hybrid set-up. Like I said before...when I had it right...I worked extremely well.
     
  14. EDO

    EDO Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Since you mentioned wattage....sounds like you have a Vamo...which is great. Since you are having a very hard time with your set ups, you must be using a chinese clone....probably the Aga T....that's bad. If you are experimenting with the gauge of wires... stick to 32g wire with 4 wraps right now. 30g and 28g wire don't work well on a device that has 1.2ohm cut off....they are meant for low ohm vaping.
     
  15. 48lowes

    48lowes Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    EDO
    This is the thread I've been looking for. Bluegrasslover's method, what an innovative mind, simply amazing. The Unoxidized SetUp, very precise, meticulous, very clear. This guy deserves and atta boy for sure. I've got kanthal #30 #32 #33 #34, stainless screen in 8½" sheets, a new mini torch, three different repairable atomizers, it's down to the basement for me. My thanks for this thread.
     
  16. EDO

    EDO Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    48lowes....Yes both methods are very innovative. I have been using the combined method for a week and it is flawless. Regarding your set up....I don't know what attys you have and what PV you are attaching them to....i.e. it makes a big difference if you are using a mechanical mod or a lava tube or a provari. My best advise to you is to use the 32g wire... 4 wraps to start off with...it works on all setups. Later on you can experiment. Let me know how it works out for you.
     
  17. bail804

    bail804 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    EDO,
    Actually I am using a Provari. I have had it for years, I got it the first month they came out, and have not upgraded to the V2 yet. I do infact have a VAMO on the way to use as a back-up, as well to use while I send my Provari in for it's upgrade. I am currently using a 10 wrap of 28 guage on a....you were right on the money here...AGA-T. I also have in my limited collection a DUD. I have 28,32,and 36 (and some 30 on the way) wire and using 500 mesh (I also have some 400). Tried the 32 on a higher wrap, like 6, 7, and 8. Have not tried a 4 wrap yet. Like I said, my Provari is a V1 so I have been trying to keep my ohms up around 2+, so that I have a larger range of voltage to play with. I am getting fairly good sucess right now vaping Boba's on the hybrid set-up. Before I spend a lot of money on a "real" Genesis, I want to play around with the idea and see what I thought. I understand the build quality is not going to be there with the Chinese attys, but is there something else I am missing? They are capible of delivering voltage to a coil surrounding a mesh wick...right. In principal that is what all of them do. When I say I'm having trouble with the set-up, I dont mean...push the button and nothing works. I mean, I get good flavor but not much vapor out of this one, and this one gives me great vapor, but no taste, and this one, yuck, just burnt the crap out of my juice.
    I do think I like the Genesis overall. I did ALOT of research before deciding to give it a try...watched like a million youtube vids and spent hours reading the forums....wife is real happy with me right now. lol. So I know there is a hugh learning curve and I am working through it.
    This Hybrid has helped alot in that I now don't need to spend so much time prepairing the wick and getting it that absolutely perfect size and then spending that mind numbing time getting rid of the shorts. I will continue to use it. Thanks so much for posting this method.
     
  18. EDO

    EDO Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Bail your are welcome. You have too admit...I was pretty spot on...I knew you had a device with with a 1.2ohm cutt off....the agat... and you were experimenting with low gauge wires. Here is copy/pasted post that I made to some one else regarding wires...it will help you out.

    Well every one knows 28g is more responsive than 30g which is more responsive than 32g...right? Well not really. It depends on how you compare them. Lets say you are comparing them using the number of wraps. Lets say you do 3 identical 4 wrap coils ....with the only difference being the gauge of wire used in them. Well in that case 28g > 30g > 32g in being most responsive. Now lets say you compare the devices by trying to build coils that are the same ohms.... lets 1.8ohms....now if you compare the responsiveness of the coils...the 32g>30g>28g. Yes in theory they should perform the same but that is only if there is no wick in the coil. Once the wick is inserted...it acts like a heat sink and everything changes....the wire with the least amount of contact to the wick (the higher resistance wire would have the least amount of wraps) will be the most responsive.

    The 28 wire should only be used on a mechanical mod....with 4 or 5 wraps. With a set up of 28g wire and 8 wraps you will have the most unresponsive set up and crappy vape....try the 32g wire. . If you make the coils super compact like Petar does, do 5 wraps if not then just do 4 wraps.

    Regarding the AGAT and chinese clones.....they all work great...but they all need to be modded. The AGAT wick hole is like miles away from the center post. You need washers on the center post like this: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-length-coil-wraps-solid-500-28k-1.3-ohms.jpg or else you will always be plagued by a hot top coil and crappy vape. Also you need to make the air hole larger...1mm air hole on the AGAT is way too small....I suggest 1.5mm air hole. Use a tungsten/carbide 1.5mm or 1/16 drill bit.

    If you mod the AGAT and use the 32g wire...I promise you will have the best vape.

    Edit: Forgot to mention you have to line up the air hole and the wick as well...since from the factory they don't come lined up correctly.
     
  19. 48lowes

    48lowes Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    EDO
    Well I didn't really get to seriously working on things till this AM. With the normal fiddling around with 1st time process, I find these methods the answer to my questions. Let's just start out with one apparatus at a time. I'm using a VV 18650 Gripper and a rebuild able from the UK,
    H-E-V SS-GENESIS. The coil was a breeze I used #30 kanthal to give me a little bigger coil 7/6 wraps gave me 1.6Ω. Then the stainless, man did I reduce the amount that I was using with this method. Any way normal fiddling and I came up with a wick to my satisfaction, a little short but still good. Then on to the cotton hybrid, I really didn't think I was putting enough on but any more and it was to thick for my application. It worked like a charm, I could hardly believe it.
    Now my only glitch is that it isn't feeding juice as it should. I took out the second screw thinking maybe it was air locked, it wasn't. Then I used and empty syringe and blew some air into the tank and juice comes outta the top of the wick, man what a beautiful vape this is. But alas after several drags I'm back to dry hits. I do kinda power smoke but a cheaper smok tech r tank was keeping up with me, that was with a stainless wick. Well that failed to keep up with my vaping this morning. Since that was one of my first attempts at the stainless wick, and the U shape, the oxidizing I think was a little-a lot over did. It still works if I take it easy on it, this will be my next rebuild. So I feel I've at least graduated to another level, thanks to your thread, but I still have too work out dry hits. Thanks for your help, I'm actually enjoying this learning process. I carry an old cartomizer in my pocket and use it on anytime I start to get frustrated. Man what a difference these atomizers make in taste.
     
  20. EDO

    EDO Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    48lowes your welcome. Well in order to use the Petar K method the way he sets it up is you have to tilt the device every time you take a drag....you know the "genesis tilt"...or else you will get dry hits. His wicks are paper thin and there is no capillary action....the wick is more like a straw...so you need to tilt it to get juice to the coil. If you don't like doing the genesis tilt use more mesh in making your wick and make it more solid....you will never get dry hits....specially when the cotton is acting as a reserve. Try using 35-40mm of mesh on your next build. Remember rolling mesh in the direction the mesh was initially rolled will tighten the wick and rolling it back the opposite way will loosen it.....that is how you fit a solid mesh wick into your coil. It actually easier than the way Petar does it.
     
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