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[DavidOck]

Glad you're up stream, FT.

Having worked at a hydroelectric plant for 25 years, and having faced similar situations, I have a lot of sympathy for those downstream in cases like this. Not sure what type of facility is below you, but Oroville's emergency spillway is dirt. Dirt dams are the worst... and the cavitation they had on the main spillway isn't common, but does happen. Seems that CWD may subscribe to the management philosophy of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I.e., preventive maintenance is too costly. Use it 'til it breaks... Hope it doesn't!

 

[ZCAR1]

The problem in Calif. (and the CWD) was that they assumed Global Warming was causing the drought and it was going to be permanent. Therefore, we don't need to waste money on dam maintenance.

 

[Lessifer]

The problem in Calif. (and the CWD) was that they assumed Global Warming was causing the drought and it was going to be permanent. Therefore, we don't need to waste money on dam maintenance.

I'm pretty sure that the state, and most of the people in the state, have the feast or famine mentality, or in this case drought or flood mentality. While it may have been prudent to perform maintenance, inspections, and repairs during the drought, getting the state(and the people) to fund those expenditures when the dam is at 20% capacity is a tough sell.

Most people in California understand how global warming works, it doesn't mean that droughts will last forever, it means they, and the cyclical storms that follow them, will become more severe.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

60,315

It's not funny, these pictures aren't from around here as far as I know, but they soon will be.

Glad you're up stream, FT.

Having worked at a hydroelectric plant for 25 years, and having faced similar situations, I have a lot of sympathy for those downstream in cases like this. Not sure what type of facility is below you, but Oroville's emergency spillway is dirt. Dirt dams are the worst... and the cavitation they had on the main spillway isn't common, but does happen. Seems that CWD may subscribe to the management philosophy of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I.e., preventive maintenance is too costly. Use it 'til it breaks... Hope it doesn't!

The spillway here is built on bedrock, as far as I remember. Just below it is soil which seemed to have almost instantaneous erosion. They removed the road bed before opening the spillway which seems absurd to me. The road won't be foxed until next summer so a complete bummer for those folks who use that road as their main access road.

Massive flooding downstream today but it's only the beginning, unfortunately.

The problem in Calif. (and the CWD) was that they assumed Global Warming was causing the drought and it was going to be permanent. Therefore, we don't need to waste money on dam maintenance.

What @Lessifer said plus this http://www.ifaw.org/sites/default/files/wordpress/3dogs_flood_pakistan2_web.jpg It was news to me but makes perfect sense considering the topography. People do not learn from history and their animals will pay for it.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

ECF, wow, broken.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Tiple post or more. Sorry

 

[FlamingoTutu]

ECF is broken, bad post

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Missed one. Five times, it posted five times. Plus I muffed the link and I'm not even sure what story the link was to now. Rough night.

@mattiem , I saw someone else that had the same problem last night around the same time. You get double posts sometimes but ECF doesn't normally let you post that often. Forces you to take a 30 second, or there abouts, break. They should never mess with that button.

 

[mattiem]

ECF is broken, bad post

looks like ECF was givin' you fits (((((((((FT))))))))

 

[DavidOck]

The spillway here is built on bedrock, as far as I remember. Just below it is soil which seemed to have almost instantaneous erosion. They removed the road bed before opening the spillway which seems absurd to me. The road won't be foxed until next summer so a complete bummer for those folks who use that road as their main access road.

Likely they figured it was going to be washed away, anyway, and wanted to reduce the debris going downstream...

 

[FlamingoTutu]

60,318

Likely they figured it was going to be washed away, anyway, and wanted to reduce the debris going downstream...

Yes, exactly what they said. What I don't know is there would be less erosion if they left the road and let it eventually wash out. Different water source but the fish hatchery water is so muddy I'm wondering if anything survived.

 

[DavidOck]

It partly depends on the geography of the specific spillway, angle the water comes off of that, and the angle it hits the far side bank - all in 3D, of course! Might be too they figured opening part of the road bed might save more than not doing so. On site civil engineers would make the guess call.

 

[SteveS45]

Checked before and it was up to 60,319 supporters but now it is down to 60,318 supporters..........

Should have posted it before!

 

[DavidOck]

'd

 

[SteveS45]

Share this petition
60,319 supporters
14,681 needed to reach 75,000

And back up to 60,319 again..............

 

[mattiem]

60,322

 

[FlamingoTutu]

60,323

Checked before and it was up to 60,319 supporters but now it is down to 60,318 supporters..........

Should have posted it before!

Great video, poor frog but it does seem to have it down. Perfect for when they deduct signers!

It partly depends on the geography of the specific spillway, angle the water comes off of that, and the angle it hits the far side bank - all in 3D, of course! Might be too they figured opening part of the road bed might save more than not doing so. On site civil engineers would make the guess call.

Hope this works. This is Don Pedro in 1997. The foreground is the spillway and has washed out part of the road. The water in the background looks to be over-topping a secondary spillway.

There was so much water coming down into the lake at the other end it blew out several turbines at the power plant in Moccasin (not in the article). Article is here Oroville puts focus on dam spillways – aging and some never tested

A not so great aerial video of the spillway now Don Pedro Reservoir spillway, Tuolumne River from high above

By comparison to the first photo, here is one (terrible one) from right after they removed the road and opened the spillway.

Did you guys see that njoy is back in town?

 

[DavidOck]

60,323....

That last photo goes along with my thoughts of them trying to save the bulk of the road. The way they've moved the earth to both sides, hoping to channel the flow.

Odd that they've never been tested... well, the dirt "emergency" spillway, yeah, you don't test those. But the normal spillway, with motorized gates.... FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission) has jurisdiction over all US dams that have generators, and required us to test ours annually. We'd usually draft the lake down below the lip to do that. With CA's drought over the years, that might have been already done.... of course, testing the gates without water coming through doesn't check the solidity of the spillway, which is where Oroville had the first problem.

 

[mattiem]

just bumpin' it up with a li'l cutie

 

[FlamingoTutu]

60,326

"Li'l cutie" is a cutie. Don't know who (or what) mom was seeing when this happened.

David, I think the dam owners will have a lot to answer for in the coming months. I noticed the berms but didn't really think about them. Not sure if it was to save erosion or having to truck in more fill next summer to rebuild the road.

Here is Oroville Oct. 30, 2014. I've seen the same picture as having been taken in Feb. 2015. Doesn't really matter, didn't start raining until late 2016.

Hard to test a spillway under those conditions. However, safety standards had been upgraded since the dam was built and they poo-pooed them when concerns were raised. With or without dams, they really need to stop people from living in flood plains.

BTW, when I get back from visiting my parents next week I'll have to figure out a way to send you a photo of an electrical gizmo used in the building of the Hetch Hetchy Dam. Maybe you can tell me what the heck it is.

For those of you that don't know what the Hetch Hetchy Dam is, it's the only dam built within a national park, Yosemite, allowing San Francisco to steal water from you and deprive you of a second natural wonder, not to mention the Native Americans that lived there.

Outflow from Hetch Hetchy, Tuolumne River, is the main water source into Don Pedro.

Les, got your water wings on?