EDIT.......before dry firing, it was .042. the p4you D2 said 'no way jose'.
TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance
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EDIT.......before dry firing, it was .042. the p4you D2 said 'no way jose'.
I had been running my dual Nifethal 0.23 ohm Aromamizer 11/10 wraps at 500F, 120W that seemed excessively high.
So, I connected to eScribe that proved my instinct correct.
At 460F, 43W I hit and hold temp quickly enough. No need for such high temp/wattage.
Lesson learned.
Re the P4you: You are almost certainly correct. With a single 18650 you are pushing it. The results above are on a VS dna 200. IOW lots of headroom, relatively speaking.
Man all that wire looks like about 5 of my coils. I gotta get me one of those Reauleux's they had some in stock for 1 day.
What temp and power in joules should I be running to get a good vape with a 6wrap 26awg 2.5mm .205 coil? It seems like with this contact coil I'm not getting enough juice to it to get good flavor unless I run my STM on 2 holes and 420F 18-20J then its not as good as Ti
Well I had to start messing with it. My first was with my test atty (I better get a different one). I had to change the value to .0044 to get it to maintain 28 watts during a 2 second hit. I almost just stopped there but thought I'd do up one of my TGT2's, total success there using SteamEngine's curve.
The red arrow is my 32 watt preheat, green is 28 watt setting. The 26.30 is throttled down wattage due to hitting temp.
The red arrow is my 32 watt preheat, green is 28 watt setting. The 26.30 is throttled down wattage due to hitting temp.
Just took the cap off and the wick is wet wet wonder if I wicked it to tight and not enough is getting to the coil. Not getting dry hits or anything like that but just not getting the flavor.
This wire is really easy to work with.
OK and the red line is your coil temp? I think I see now. and the coil is .245 cold correct?Well I had to start messing with it. My first was with my test atty (I better get a different one). I had to change the value to .0044 to get it to maintain 28 watts during a 2 second hit. I almost just stopped there but thought I'd do up one of my TGT2's, total success there using SteamEngine's curve.
The red arrow is my 32 watt preheat, green is 28 watt setting. The 26.30 is throttled down wattage due to hitting temp.
Since I use single coils what do you think a 7wrap 3mm coil would do? Just curious like you I have no experience with this stuff but I really would like it to work like everyone says.
I set it to 450F 20J hits temp almost instantly powerful+ mode and I think I'm getting a little hot cotton taste. Not burnt but close.
I'm making my coil just the same as any other wire, only the TCR value is different.
Well I definately had it wicked too tight. But even now it's vaping pretty well but I'm at 440F and it seems to be kinda cool compared to Ti. Maybe this just isn't my cup of tea. I'll keep trying though.
@dwcraig1 .... i thought it was kinda funny lookin at your preheat compared to mine. mine's like a railroad spike through the roof whiles yers is only set to ten above yer set w. obviously u dont need a ton for an rta. i was playing around and noticed i peak at around 50-52 amps during the preheat. i got scared and retired that build in the sapor. I really dont feel like de-soldering and rma-ing a board to evolv (my luck).
The only reason I started looking for wire other than NI200 is because of attys that use capture holes with screws drilled too deep that cut the NI200 instead of securing the wire or rounded under the head screws that push the wire out when you try to tighten them. I get tired of making modifications like snipping off small pieces of SS utility wire to drop in the post holes so the screws will bottom out where they should or using washers replacing screws etc. So I looked at this page and saw that most materials I would normally consider have TCRs way below that of Nickel except for the very expensive if you can find at all ones like cobalt, beryllium, etc. Then I saw good old "iron" and 1C carbon steel at .006 and .005 respectively. Then I saw this page that shows (when you click on add wire) the temperature sensitivity in the vaping range for SS 316L at 17 % relative to NI200 (curve) of course being 100% as the baseline. Back to the Ness page and 1C steel has 120 Ohm/mil ft compared to Nickel at 42 Ohm/mil ft and iron at 58.5 Ohm/mil ft. Ok so the resistance is almost 3X as high which is great for smaller single coils or parallel dual coils.
So then I thought well ok then what's wrong with good old iron?
Well obviously it rusts but do I care?
Looking for inhalation hazards of iron oxide I found the CDC permissible level is 5mg per cubic meter and this page and this page and this page on other concerns which all seem to exonerate iron oxide or any minute amount I might get from a vaping coil.
I do rebuilds frequently anyways so I decided I don't care if it rusts, let it rust.
I always have a use for piano wire or music wire in the shop, cleaning out carburetor jets etc so I bought some .016" High Carbon Steel wire from amazon which is close to 26 gauge and thought well if it doesn't work for vaping I can always use it for other projects and its cheap.
Well guess what? It vapes for me just fine.
Since the music wire is high carbon steel (.7-1%Carbon) it's TCR is closer to the .005. So instead of setting temp to my usual 360 I set it to 300. Straight ratio of TCRs from Ness and using the steam engine ratio method the temperature sensitivity in the vaping range is 85% ie .005/.006 or 300/360. That's way better than a temperature sensitivity in the vaping range of 17 and 25% better than 57/59.
It is of course ultimate springy as high carbon steel is used to make springs. I would not even attempt to make a coil out of high strength high carbon steel without a coiler tool like a coil master and a pair of carbide hard wire/memory wire cutters. And it is of course stiff and strong and will poke you if you're not careful but those dad blasted attys aren't cutting it like they did the NI200. And use a mandrel smaller than the coil you want. Kind of neat to heat a loop of it on the tab 521 and flip to resistance and watch it change as it cools off.
HTH
So then I thought well ok then what's wrong with good old iron?
Well obviously it rusts but do I care?
Looking for inhalation hazards of iron oxide I found the CDC permissible level is 5mg per cubic meter and this page and this page and this page on other concerns which all seem to exonerate iron oxide or any minute amount I might get from a vaping coil.
I do rebuilds frequently anyways so I decided I don't care if it rusts, let it rust.
I always have a use for piano wire or music wire in the shop, cleaning out carburetor jets etc so I bought some .016" High Carbon Steel wire from amazon which is close to 26 gauge and thought well if it doesn't work for vaping I can always use it for other projects and its cheap.
Well guess what? It vapes for me just fine.
Since the music wire is high carbon steel (.7-1%Carbon) it's TCR is closer to the .005. So instead of setting temp to my usual 360 I set it to 300. Straight ratio of TCRs from Ness and using the steam engine ratio method the temperature sensitivity in the vaping range is 85% ie .005/.006 or 300/360. That's way better than a temperature sensitivity in the vaping range of 17 and 25% better than 57/59.
It is of course ultimate springy as high carbon steel is used to make springs. I would not even attempt to make a coil out of high strength high carbon steel without a coiler tool like a coil master and a pair of carbide hard wire/memory wire cutters. And it is of course stiff and strong and will poke you if you're not careful but those dad blasted attys aren't cutting it like they did the NI200. And use a mandrel smaller than the coil you want. Kind of neat to heat a loop of it on the tab 521 and flip to resistance and watch it change as it cools off.
HTH
How bout a link to the music wire? Also, will the wire anneal if torched, or harden even further?
.016"~ 26gauge
Well, in theory sure its steel but haven't needed it. If you get it hot enough for long enough it will alter mechanically and chemically. That starts somewhere around 900F - red hot up to orange and white hot. I think the only way to get it harder as in rockwell is to glow it in a carbon bath or nitrogen chamber but it doesn't need to be any harder. To reap the reduce stresses benefit of annealing, if it were needed, I would make the coil first, put it on a high temp mandrel like a ceramic rod then glow it but that will drive out the carbon and probably soak in oxygen which will weaken it. And from what I have seen, I don't think that benefit is needed. Vapes fine, coil doesn't distort. I just make a single big loop on a TC mod and pulse it a couple times to smoke off the contaminates. Same thing I do with the NI200. Then make the coil on the winder tool and make the build. I did notice much less smoke with the music wire and no funky taste on first puff at all. I'd bet a simple wipe with everclear would produce the same result, I'll have to try that next.
And if you need to make a 90, don't make a sharp 90 turn with pliers it will break. Use a 1.5mm or larger mandrel and make a curved 90.
Cutters
Cutters
Future project is to make some measurements with an ohm meter and thermocouple for a csv file. Might try low carbon utility wire also.
Interesting....
This AM I had some time to kill so I pulled my zivipf NiFe48 26AWG build and tossed a BUNCH of water at it while mounted on my Apollo Reliant:
TCR Temp
50 201F
47 212F
45 220F
40 240F
30 285F
While left set at my usual 380F I did need to bump up the wattage to 25W and did two checks (with tap water cooling inbetween) and firing until the hit timer expired.
It would appear that the TCR value I was using before was way to hot and 47 is a better value for this wire and build on the Apollo Reliant.
This AM I had some time to kill so I pulled my zivipf NiFe48 26AWG build and tossed a BUNCH of water at it while mounted on my Apollo Reliant:
TCR Temp
50 201F
47 212F
45 220F
40 240F
30 285F
While left set at my usual 380F I did need to bump up the wattage to 25W and did two checks (with tap water cooling inbetween) and firing until the hit timer expired.
It would appear that the TCR value I was using before was way to hot and 47 is a better value for this wire and build on the Apollo Reliant.
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