75W Vaporesso TARGET 2 VTC Kit with Ceramic cCELL Coil

[Roadtrip635]

I'm a little disappointed after hearing some of the early reviews. I will play a little bit of a devil's advocate about that last review and the "crumbly" ceramic. He didn't show on camera the kind of force it took to take the ceramic coil out, he did say it didn't come apart. In the shot where the ceramic crumbles are visible, if you look in the lower right hand corner, you see the very mangled metal sleeve that surrounds the ceramic. It looked like he used a pair of pliers to squeeze the metal tube and crack the ceramic and broke the ceramic apart to get to the inner coil.

I don't know what the deal is about the cotton inside, maybe it's used more as a form to make the shape since the metal coil itself doesn't really give the ceramics a shape to adhere to. I have no idea and I'm not really trying to defend the manufacturer, but the way he showed the aftermath did seem misleading as well.

If you squeeze a small piece of ceramic with a pair of pliers, it will crumble like that.

 

[stylemessiah]

I'm a little disappointed after hearing some of the early reviews. I will play a little bit of a devil's advocate about that last review and the "crumbly" ceramic. He didn't show on camera the kind of force it took to take the ceramic coil out, he did say it didn't come apart. In the shot where the ceramic crumbles are visible, if you look in the lower right hand corner, you see the very mangled metal sleeve that surrounds the ceramic. It looked like he used a pair of pliers to squeeze the metal tube and crack the ceramic and broke the ceramic apart to get to the inner coil.

I don't know what the deal is about the cotton inside, maybe it's used more as a form to make the shape since the metal coil itself doesn't really give the ceramics a shape to adhere to. I have no idea and I'm not really trying to defend the manufacturer, but the way he showed the aftermath did seem misleading as well.

If you squeeze a small piece of ceramic with a pair of pliers, it will crumble like that.

I get your point, but i suspect they werent counting on someone taking one of their coils apart, and to take them at their word/face value

Quite separate from your theory above is still the misleading issue of the mysterious cotton, and them claiming you could dry burn their coil and reuse it, you wanna dry burn cotton?

Not me

 

[Croak]

He said the cotton (if it was, in fact, cotton, VapnFagn ain't the sharpest tool in the shed, as evidenced by past review flubs) was around the outside of the ceramic, not against the coil.

And yeah, ceramic crumbles under pressure, but is coherent in normal use, it doesn't "break down" unless subjected to force. And there's no force being applied when vaping. Remember the "crumbly" Atlantis and Nautilus wicking? They didn't crumble under use, they had to have force applied to make them crumble.

But hey, people forget the parable of Chicken Little and blame the acorns.

All in all, the ceramic in these things is probably safer in terms of particle ingestion than the cheap brass alloys used in most coil head casings.

 

[stylemessiah]

He said the cotton (if it was, in fact, cotton, VapnFagn ain't the sharpest tool in the shed, as evidenced by past review flubs) was around the outside of the ceramic, not against the coil.

Isnt the whole idea that the coil is inside the ceramic and therefore heats the ceramic, im guessing if you have cotton around that ceramic its going to get rather warm, no?

I mean the ceramic has to get as hot as the coil at very least to make vapor....dry cotton at coil temp = burny burny yuck yuck

 

[tiburonfirst]

the ceramic is saturated with the juice and anything well-saturated is not that easy to burn ..........

we also would need to know at what temp the coil glows red (either the nickel or the kanthal) and how that temp is transferred to the ceramic and if the ceramic would ever get hot enough to burn cotton

 

[tiburonfirst]

@ Boden did a lot of work with the ceramic wicks a year or two ago - maybe he'd be able to clear up some of the confusion ....

 

[Croak]

Isnt the whole idea that the coil is inside the ceramic and therefore heats the ceramic, im guessing if you have cotton around that ceramic its going to get rather warm, no?

I mean the ceramic has to get as hot as the coil at very least to make vapor....dry cotton at coil temp = burny burny yuck yuck

The ceramic is the wick, NOT the heating element. It's a transport medium for fluid, and the phase change (boiling) temperature of the fluid determines the maximum heat that's able to be transferred to the ceramic. That same fluid is also present in the (cotton?) outer wrap, and the same laws of physics apply to it.

So, as long as there is liquid, the liquid acts as a "thermostat". Those temps, in case you're curious, are (depending on the juice ratio) somewhere between 390f (PG phase change point) to 550f (VG phase change point).

And just to point this out once again, the ceramic is a wick, not the heating element. Think about what you said above, and then imagine cotton around or through the coil instead of ceramic, and nothing changes in terms of physics. Other than the fact that you're far less likely to damage the ceramic wick by "dry burning" than you are with a cotton wick which combusts around 420-450f.

 

[drysprocket]

If you read the comments in his video, he explains that he "attacked the coil head with a screwdriver" to get it to break. So that's a plus at least. Also it looks like Vaporesso is in the comments doing some damage control.

I dunno, my spidey senses tell me this is a no-go though. Even if the ceramic doesn't always break like that; I just don't trust the manufacturing process to be good enough to avoid the breakup from happening some of the time.

 

[tiburonfirst]

well, if by chance the ceramic should break up how would the pieces penetrate the cotton wrap?

 

[Katya]

It looked like he used a pair of pliers to squeeze the metal tube and crack the ceramic and broke the ceramic apart to get to the inner coil.

If you read the comments in his video, he explains that he "attacked the coil head with a screwdriver" to get it to break. So that's a plus at least.

Yes, that's a plus. I missed that part last night... From just watching the video, I concluded that the "ceramic" simply disintegrated once the coil was opened.

Remember the "crumbly" Atlantis and Nautilus wicking? They didn't crumble under use, they had to have force applied to make them crumble.

I do... and it didn't take any "force" to make them crumble. All you needed to do was to rub the material gently between your fingers to make it crumble and leave a layer of dust on your skin.

And how do we know that they didn't crumble under normal use? I've seen several pictures of completely clogged up "mesh" filters from Aspire coils.

 

[Katya]

Isnt the whole idea that the coil is inside the ceramic and therefore heats the ceramic, im guessing if you have cotton around that ceramic its going to get rather warm, no?

I mean the ceramic has to get as hot as the coil at very least to make vapor....dry cotton at coil temp = burny burny yuck yuck

Per Vaporesso comment:

The cotton is only used for controlling the e-liquid flow speed and anti leakage. The mental [sic] hard shell is protecting the ceramic from cracking during normal use.

So, clearly, they do anticipate that the ceramic might crack during normal use. And what happens when the coil head is dropped or otherwise mishandled during transport or by the end user? It may crack and we would have no idea, as the ceramic is not really visible from the outside.

 

[Bigbob2322]

After thinking about it more, I feel the Cotton would prevent anything from the coil, if it broke get past it like tibs said.

 

[Katya]

And just to point this out once again, the ceramic is a wick, not the heating element.

Ahem, not quite...

Again, per Vaporesso comment:

What we want to state is that the heating element or the wick material is completely ceramic. The cotton around the ceramic is used for liquid flow speed control and anti-leakage. It is not involved in the heating process.

Yeah, the cotton is not involved in the heating process, but it might burn when/if the ceramic element said cotton is in contact with gets hot enough and it will clog up just like any other cotton or rayon wick...

The residue from the e-liquid will be blocking the porous structure. After around 1.5 times of a regular coil, it still works, but flavor lessens.

Right. So much for "self cleaning." This ceramic coil is only as good (and will last as long) as the cotton that's wrapped around it. So what's the point of making an expensive ceramic coil and wrapping it in cotton???? Just make a cotton coil.

 

[cooladdict]

I wish he would have said what juice he was using, and at what ratio. He said the coil is still going strong after a week or so, but I question whether he used the tank the entire week. I got notification that mine has shipped via DHL so hopefully it will show up next week. I vape high VG and plan to load it with either a peanut butter/banana juice (about 80%+ VG) or an apple spice one (72/28) and I will vape it 'till the coil falls off. I'm not too worried about the coil disintegrating under normal use. Now if I happen to drop it, I will definitely inspect the coil before I use it again, but let's hope that doesn't happen.

 

[Katya]

After thinking about it more, I feel the Cotton would prevent anything from the coil, if it broke get past it like tibs said.

Just like the old Aspire BVC coils, only the outside of the ceramic coil is wrapped in cotton--the top, bottom and the inside of the ceramic element are in direct contact with e-liquid.

 

[tiburonfirst]

So what's the point of making an expensive ceramic coil

according to hg as per vg they expect pricing for the 5-pack to be in the run-of-the-mill range

 

[tiburonfirst]

Just like the old Aspire BVC coils, only the outside of the ceramic coil is wrapped in cotton--the top, bottom and the inside of the ceramic element are in direct contact with e-liquid.

but encased in that metal shell, no?

vg - you just have to sacrifice one of your coils and investigate further

 

[cooladdict]

Ahem, not quite...

Again, per Vaporesso comment:

What we want to state is that the heating element or the wick material is completely ceramic. The cotton around the ceramic is used for liquid flow speed control and anti-leakage. It is not involved in the heating process.

Yeah, the cotton is not involved in the heating process, but it will burn when/if the ceramic element said cotton is in contact with gets hot enough...

The residue from the e-liquid will be blocking the porous structure. After around 1.5 times of a regular coil, it still works, but flavor lessens.

Right. So much for "self cleaning." This ceramic coil is only as good (and will last as long) as the cotton that's wrapped around it. So what's the point of making an expensive ceramic coil and wrapping it in cotton???? Just make a cotton coil.

I do think that since it's just the ceramic coming into contact with the cotton and not the wire itself, the cotton isn't going to burn like it does when it is just touching the wire. I do get the part about it being an insulator of sorts, but you're right; the cotton is going to gunk up just like any cotton coil! I am eager to try it out, though. Have you gotten shipping info on your tank yet?

 

[100%VG]

OK everyone. My Vaporesso Kit may have it's issues, and I cannot say why with any certainly, but Mark Fagan is an illiterate idiot!!! Apparently, he can't even read.

One of the things he said was that there is no Resistance Lock for a TC Coil. There is and the procedure to Lock and Unlock it is in the Manual. Maybe he got a version 1 that does not have it. And here's a question for you. The version 2 is new, so how could he have had his for a whole week and a half before anyone else got theirs, including time to laugh it off and reconsider having one sent to him after how ever many emails he said it was? And I'd love to know what juice or juices he used to get a week and a half of use from his Kanthal Head, with it still going strong!!!

He either misstated or neglected some other points as well, but the thing that everyone is jumping on here is the Ceramics that Crumbled. Hit any Ceramics with a hammer and it will shatter and crumble. Scrape it with a sharp tool and you will get dust particles.

I told you all earlier that there is no way to take a cCell apart without destroying it, and that is what Mark did. I'm not going to take the time to take photos and try to describe in detail WHY it cannot be taken apart to get the Ceramic out without destroying it, but you can't. It is locked in place by an extremely tight fitting press-fit metal ring below the coil where the Plus Pin goes in. If you could see what Mark had to do to show what he showed, I'd be willing to bet that this press-fit metal ring is still in there. And if it isn't, it was hammered out from the inside with a tool used from the top, after the Ceramics had been destroyed.

The only way that Mark could have gotten the Coil and any of the Ceramic out of the Head was to totally destroy the Ceramics, by picking it out with a small flat blade Jeweler's Screwdriver, or something like that. And if you had ever seen a cCell and held it in your hand, and tried to take one apart (like I have), then you would know that. Mark got chucks of Ceramic and crumbled pieces and grit from digging it out the way he did. The only benefit of having done that was the discovery of the Cotton in there, but...
What is wrong with Cotton?

While it was revealing (and surprising) that there is Cotton on or around the Ceramic somewhere (likely not in it), why should this be an issue? Every Head out there today is using Japanese Organic Cotton. This cotton did not crumble like the first Aspire cotton did. Mark even tugged on it, and it did not tear or even start to separate. But look at how torn up the cotton was. This is further proof of what he had to do to get the Ceramics out.

Could Vaporesso have said that Cotton was in a cCell Head? Yes. Is Cotton in both Head types? Don't know. Did Vaporesso use misleading advertising? Maybe, but we did not design or assemble the Head, and we don't know WHY it is in there. It could simply be used as a padding to buffer the Ceramic from Shock. It could be used to get the juice more evenly spread around the entire Ceramic cylinder, to better saturate it. Or it could be part of the assembly process to get the Ceramic and Coil inside the Head and still give it a snug fit without damaging the Ceramics as it is inserted... done to avoid any scratching and therefore any fine dust particles of Ceramics inside the Head.

The disc that Mark found inside was probably a Silicone material used for its Heat Resistance at the top of the Ceramics to prevent the top of the Coil from shorting to ground on the cCell casing. The Ceramic cylinder has some of the wire exposed, and that cylinder butts up to a "Stop Lip" in the Head casing at the top, which is easily seen in the cCell Head photos.

Mark clearly has an issue with Ceramics and also with Ni200. I could care less about either. I have researched the use of Ni200 wire for a vaping application with a Chemist, and I have been assured that Carbonyl could not be formed under our vaping applications. Could we move away from Nickel now? Yes, but that concern is more is more due to misinformation than science. Another case of, OMG!!! Look at what happens with vaping material under Industrial Applications!!! But we are not using Nickel under those conditions. And just like with Acrolein, if Nickel ever became a concernable part of your vape, you would TASTE it, stop vaping, and fix the problem.

My concerns are with the performance of the Mod and Heads, but certainly not the Ceramics or Cotton.
.

 

[Katya]

but encased in that metal shell, no?

BVC coils were also encased in a metal shell...