75W Vaporesso TARGET 2 VTC Kit with Ceramic cCELL Coil
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Sintered porous ceramic experiences a condition known as Thermal Shock that results in structural degradation. It happens when the ceramic is heated unevenly. This structural degradation is further compounded when a heating coil is sintered inside of the host ceramic.
Basically, the metal coil expands and contracts with temperature change at a much higher rate than ceramic (which hardly expands and contracts at those same temperatures by comparison). So the heated and cooled coil (during vaping conditions) is constantly destroying the surrounding ceramic at a microscopic level, breaking the structural bonds that contain the negative space of it's porous structure. When that happens, filamentous crystalline shards become presently free-floating in the ceramic. This condition increases the deeper the heating coil is sintered inside the ceramic wick.
Now add the hydrodynamics of eliquid through the porous ceramic wick. The liquid passes from the outside of the ceramic wick, through the negative space pores, "washing" the free-floating ceramic particulate directly to the hollow core of the coil head, where it is exhausted with the vapor into the lungs of the user.
Of course none of this can be "seen" happening on a macroscopic level, giving the illusion that the ceramic is still in pristine condition and appears to be "safe". There are also no rock solid lab results on this exact use of these materials (especially considering the new-ness of such a creation), but the physics of these conditions are definitely real and provable, and have been studied and documented.
A simple test can be performed to check for this condition:
Determine the pressure required to crush a new (unused) ceramic coil.
Then determine the pressure required to crush a well used ceramic coil.
If there is any difference in required pressure, then the structural integrity has been vastly compromised and it's unsafe for use.
Here's a simple thought experiment that correlates to ceramic wicks with embedded heating coils.
1. Take a raw egg in it's shell.
2. Microwave it.
3. Clean up the mess
The egg shell represents the ceramic wicking material. The egg yolk represents the metal heating coil and ejuice. The yolk expands at a far greater rate when quickly heated in comparison to the shell. The shell is brittle and doesn't expand at the same rate as the yolk.
Regardless of the ceramic formulation used in these coils, thermal shock and material expansion are conditions that cannot be denied, and are huge causes for concern in regards to the safe use of ceramic coils.
Basically, the metal coil expands and contracts with temperature change at a much higher rate than ceramic (which hardly expands and contracts at those same temperatures by comparison). So the heated and cooled coil (during vaping conditions) is constantly destroying the surrounding ceramic at a microscopic level, breaking the structural bonds that contain the negative space of it's porous structure. When that happens, filamentous crystalline shards become presently free-floating in the ceramic. This condition increases the deeper the heating coil is sintered inside the ceramic wick.
Now add the hydrodynamics of eliquid through the porous ceramic wick. The liquid passes from the outside of the ceramic wick, through the negative space pores, "washing" the free-floating ceramic particulate directly to the hollow core of the coil head, where it is exhausted with the vapor into the lungs of the user.
Of course none of this can be "seen" happening on a macroscopic level, giving the illusion that the ceramic is still in pristine condition and appears to be "safe". There are also no rock solid lab results on this exact use of these materials (especially considering the new-ness of such a creation), but the physics of these conditions are definitely real and provable, and have been studied and documented.
A simple test can be performed to check for this condition:
Determine the pressure required to crush a new (unused) ceramic coil.
Then determine the pressure required to crush a well used ceramic coil.
If there is any difference in required pressure, then the structural integrity has been vastly compromised and it's unsafe for use.
Here's a simple thought experiment that correlates to ceramic wicks with embedded heating coils.
1. Take a raw egg in it's shell.
2. Microwave it.
3. Clean up the mess
The egg shell represents the ceramic wicking material. The egg yolk represents the metal heating coil and ejuice. The yolk expands at a far greater rate when quickly heated in comparison to the shell. The shell is brittle and doesn't expand at the same rate as the yolk.
Regardless of the ceramic formulation used in these coils, thermal shock and material expansion are conditions that cannot be denied, and are huge causes for concern in regards to the safe use of ceramic coils.
Nooo, why!!
Thanks anyway drysprocket, safety is important.
Now I don´t dare to use them until I have an update on this, I loved the taste of them
Well this sucks for all the manufacturers who've decided to copycat this design. Ouch...
The Fury Tank is capable of tremendous airflow. It has 4 large ports in the airflow control ring. That's one of its strong selling points. I have one.
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I realize this thread is veering into the question of the "safety" of the cCELL coils...but...assuming they end up being shown to be safe...(and so I don't forget to ask)...
I'm a confirmed MTL vaper (and have yet to vape over 10Watts).
I figure I could "get by" with the Kanthal-0.9ohm cCELL coils.
Can the airflow of the FuryTank be turned DOWN enough to satisfy a Tootle Puffer like myself?
While this could be the concern raised in GrimmGreen's report, like you stated; "There are also no rock solid lab results on this exact use of these materials (especially considering the new-ness of such a creation)". While a simple thought experiment may be a good example of the process, before we decide there is a mess to clean up, if it's OK with you, let's please wait for the follow up report from GrimmGreen's "large vender". Some actual Science on the ceramic in question will make a much better case. Hopefully we will also be given some kind of proof of the report's validity in the form of verifiable documentation of the Process and the Results.
Simply saying "This is what I was told" in a Vlog report and follow up about a topic like this is not good enough. It will bring attention to the possible issue and hopefully spawn further study, but like anything Scientific, one report's findings are never considered conclusive. The Scientific Community requires repeatable results before a Theory is considered any kind of Truth. That's the way it works. And I think it would be good to know who is funding this research and who is behind it. Just like any ecig issue, track the money to see if there may be an agenda.
If there truly is a danger posed by the use of this kind of ceramic in a vaping application, then we need to know that, and honest Scientific Studies where accurate, verifiable, reproducible facts are presented will reveal any dangers. If real concerns are found, then further study is needed to discern the extent. Formaldehyde and Acrolein can be found in ecigs, but at far lower percentages than in cigarettes. We need to know more. Should we stop using ceramics in vaping while we wait? Maybe, but that will be a personal decision. Considering the possible danger, it would be a good idea.
I eagerly await the facts. We need to know the Truth.
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This whole thing sounds like a attack from a jealous competitor. I seriously doubt any distributor are willing pay the money for other people's product especially when this item was just released.
It's possible that it's a legitimate concern, but I'm skeptical too. However, the word of caution is well advised until more is known.
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Yikes! Is it the same battery? My Target has never gotten hot. I'm sorry you are having so much trouble.
I am having trouble remembering which tanks are top fill and which ones are bottom fill (and now, which one is side fill, lol!). I would love to see the Target tank in a 5 ml size. It would fit perfectly on the mod, too.
I wish he would have said which coils were tested. Did they test both the nickle and kanthal, or just one of them? What scary things were found? Many questions. I hope the answers come soon. I am holding of judgement until I hear what Vaporesso has to say.
The coil is not completely embedded in the cCell. It can be seen when you look down into the coil.
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any websites have the coils in stock? I don't care about the tank itself or the mod.
I dunno, if I was a large and respected vendor, I'd do it. Seems like the right thing to do and might be worth it even from a marketing standpoint. Though I'm not sure what cost it entails, just imagine how much this will get their name out there if it turns out they uncover this. Even looking at it cynically, it might be worth it.
I think it's an occam's razor thing. Relatively unknown company in china, makes experimental coil for an industry on the whole that is still in need of a lot more testing. I'm honestly shocked more things like this don't happen more often. It just seems inevitable to some degree given the newness of the industry. I hope for the sake of those that purchased this and are loving though, that it turns out to be wrong.
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Cooladdict said that Heaven Gifts has some of them, but I don't remember what type. Since you are in Belgium, a China or UK vendor would probably save you on shipping costs.
3AVape
There may be others.
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I really want all the vendors to test all the items they carry. Here is the sad part, been working in FMCG industry I have seen this kind of drama thousands times. the fact is for any kind innovation, the necessary testing is always missing. In this case, I am actually impressed by finding the third party MSDS on their website. I haven't seen any people do that in vaping industry.
Two points makes this skeptical is the timing and cost. This coil was just released and a vendor not even a manufacturer had the testing result done already. I remember 5 years ago, when FDA was trying to regulate the cig-like ecig, it took FDA almost 5-8 months to get a report for metal material used in cartomizer. In that video, if they have the report why not just show us...that can save us so much time, right? Not mention the money, with thousands items in the market today, paying testing fee for every new item? I am not a expert, but you are at least talking about millions.
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