A Comprehensive Electronic Cigarette User Survey

[dc2k08]

Thought this fits here....

Ok, let's do that one, it's much, much better. There are some typos and it seems that some 1 to 10s are backwards like "...How easy was it to quit" and 10 is "extremely difficult". That's me and probably moot. Question numbers would be good too. Alphabetize flavors...

Leave it to Google! Should've known.... however: you can fill it out any number of times and submit galore, tho', answer one or answer 'em all - over and over again. Need an IP check or e-mail (kept private) and a little captcha thingie wouldn't hurt.

I would theenk dees ees a beeg problemo, no? Can this be fixed in this beta app?

So much for scientific.

PLEASE CAN ANYONE OUT THERE DO THIS RIGHT BEFORE ROLLING IT OUT ON THE SHOWROOM FLOOR?

.... dude, did someone set your pants on fire? if you want this thread to turn into some kind argey bargey battle of the surveys type thing, I'm not going to entertain it.

sorry for any typos and if the ranges were confusing. Google didn't provide an option to add question numbers so that couldn't be done. guess I could've put them in the question titles but I didn't think it was necessary.

You're right, I could have alphabetised the flavours but they were copied in from another source and again It didn't occur to me that it might be necessary.

I have already mentioned that one drawback of this survey is that that it is not controlled and that there would be a way to restrict who answers it and that that this could be done at a later stage.

I don't think you are meaning to come off so agro and probably just need to chillax for a minute. at least I hope so.

 

[esmok-e]

??????????????????????????????

I'll ignore the personal bs, but how will you remove duplicate voters?

I want a reliable poll as much as anyone else. I gave it a shot with what we have on board here, it doesn't allow duplicates. The program may suck and my survey as well, but how are you going to straighten out all that bs data after the fact?

That's important. I think we should forget about my pants and stick to the issues afoot.

 

[dc2k08]

How about you not regard it as a 'be all and end all' ultimate scientific survey and rather view it as an experiment and a possible model or reference for future surveys. Take out of it as much or as little as you want and take a break while you're at it.

 

[esmok-e]

Okay... you know you did all the work but that small thing to fix is a fatal flaw. Like a BMW that at certain rev's loosens the drive-axle bolts. Your survey is great and I said that all over, except it needs a proper submit function. I hope someone can figure it out because the google thingie would work if they do. If not then a pro-survey app is required.

I don't think we care about "be all end all" and "ultimate survey" - only reliable. You are so close and now your fuse seems shorter than your rope.

So as an experiment I think your concept is good, the questions are good but it fails in the most basic requirement - reliability. And because of that, it's useless for anyone to take, as it stands. A for effort. F for reality.

Next.

 

[Steph2323]

Okay... you know you did all the work but that small thing to fix is a fatal flaw. Like a BMW that at certain rev's loosens the drive-axle bolts. Your survey is great and I said that all over, except it needs a proper submit function. I hope someone can figure it out because the google thingie would work if they do. If not then a pro-survey app is required.

I don't think we care about "be all end all" and "ultimate survey" - only reliable. You are so close and now your fuse seems shorter than your rope.

So as an experiment I think your concept is good, the questions are good but it fails in the most basic requirement - reliability. And because of that, it's useless for anyone to take, as it stands. A for effort. F for reality.

Next.

If it can be done, then I'm sure that Dc will try to fix it. If not, it is a great start and can still provide us with good info. To call it useless is uncalled for. He put a great deal of time and effort into it and should be commended for doing so.
Stephanie

 

[dc2k08]

I mentioned this before and will repeat it for your benefit. A survey like this can be restricted by collecting email addresses from people who are known to be legitimate and posting it to them alone to fill out. Anyone else is locked out. This might go ahead at a later stage and suggestions can be made as to how questions should be phrased, re-organised etc and different ones added or deleted.

What doesn't help at all is when you vent your anger by attempting to pervert the survey with false answers because other members on another thread criticised you or because you wish to make a point which as already been acknowledged.

As a final point. What is to stop anyone from signing up multiple accounts and submitting false or multiple answers to an online survey even in the confines of a forum?

 

[esmok-e]

I mentioned this before and will repeat it for your benefit. A survey like this can be restricted by collecting email addresses from people who are known to be legitimate and posting it to them alone to fill out. Anyone else is locked out. This might go ahead at a later stage and suggestions can be made as to how questions should be phrased, re-organised etc and different ones added or deleted.

What doesn't help at all is when you vent your anger by attempting to pervert the survey with false answers because other members on another thread criticised you or because you wish to make a point which as already been acknowledged.

OK.

I'm not angry, man. I'm happy! What you did is great. I said that in almost every post.

I'm not trying to knock you down in the least.

I merely tested it the most critical part of the test to me which is the degree of accuracy possible. The test was for "one-vote-per" input/submit data.

I think all it really needs is that restriction of one vote for one person. I don't see how any data would be useful without that. The survey questions are great but the answers could yield results that would be inaccurate. Some joker will invariably fill out the most improbable combinations, true. But that would be relatively insignificant. Now if some proxy jockey, or a distributed system mal-script from a fleet of unwitting computers found a way to vote, that could nuke it. But why start off already nuked?

I also can't see how the unrestricted data could be merged with the restricted data without any unique identifier. Even if you managed to record the unrestricted form's ip address or email (but didn't use it to restrict to one-vote-per) How would we know which unrestricted copy to merge?

I'm just trying to have a discussion to figure out how to put this together too. Do we disagree on the fundamental requirement of only "one-vote-per" data?

That's what I don't get. I believe that the fundamental requirement for this poll is to be accurate. One shot to tell it like it is, be honest - identifying info is for verification purposes only and held in complete privacy for only as long as necessary, unless the voters opt-in to subscribe.

Am I missing something? I feel like I keep repeating myself like a muttering macaw. Help me out. I've gone nuts, right? I apologize, but I didn't mean to break your toy. I just went to see if it was already broken. Some folks call that quality control. "one-vote-per" data.

To me, that's all that's missing. I don't know how hard or expensive that would be to pull off. That would be the next step to test and when that works, go live with it and let 'er rip.

The forum won't allow multiple accounts, e-mail addresses are not reliable as an identifier, forums generally use IP addresses. It is possible to use proxies or leave the cable disconnected for a while until your IP lease expires, reconnect and then vote again, use a dial-up account. There are always ways to beat the system.

It's not going to be perfect, and that is taken into consideration - but isn't that more perfect than a survey which does not have "one-vote-per" data?

I'm not attacking you at all. You got the questions down - it's the results as it stands now, maintaining as high a level of accuracy as possible is the goal and I can't see how that goal is possible without "one-vote-per" data. Anything else would have to include a potentially large quantity of totally avoidable mis-information. This would skew the results and yield improbable, if not impossible statistics.

 

[olderthandirt]

Great effort! What struck me most was that most of my answers were the same as majority depicted in the summary.

here i thought were unique

 

[dc2k08]

Your responses in the survey didn't make you sound happy. Seemed like you were trying to mock and sabotage the survey rather than 'test' it.

I have said nothing about merging 'restricted data' with 'unrestricted data'.

you feel like you're repeating yourself?..oh boy, well let me tell you..

One more time only please: If at a later stage a group of people are willing to offer their email addresses and these people can generally be identified as being known legitimate, reputable electronic cigarette users, then these people could fill in a survey in a closed environment once only and this data could then be collected.

I edited my previous post so I will include the edit here it case it was missed:
What is to stop anyone from signing up multiple accounts and submitting false or multiple answers to an open online survey even in the confines of a forum?

Good night.

 

[esmok-e]

Ooh boy!



Well, I'm off to Hawaii, all expenses paid, to a closed room survey to make pencil marks on little rectangles. And all I had to do was give my email address and say I smoked an electrical bidi. All done, back to the beach.
Ahhhh, those Hawaiian nights. And you know, these electric thingies ain't too bad either. The smoke kills the friggin' chiggers! I gotta tell the survey lady. There she is in the thong and lei.

Sleep tight, looks like I'll be up for awhile. Good thing I have a Marlboro or two!

 

[skullsoup432]

Great survey!

A couple things I'd like to see added, or maybe individual surveys done. I know you asked about flavors, but I purchased from a vendor who listed the juice as tobacco, that's it. What I would like to know is how many have no plans on vaping anything other than a straight tobacco flavor, no "exotic" flavors. Kinda like smokin' weed (sorry), just want the unaltered taste. Not pineapple, coffee, or tootsie roll sensemilia! I know that tobacco (and cannabis) has flavor variations that could be argued for, but nothing like what vaping can achieve. Just wondered how many "purists" are out there.

The next is tricky.
Since the USA is a variety of races, what percentage are blacks, whites, Hispanic, Asian...
Somehow a survey for just this forum, then a separate for other outlets of the web to see over all the race break down.
Not that other countries shouldn't be represented. Many, however, do not have such a vast diversity of races.

 

[esmok-e]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-discussion/11500-electronic-cigarette-user-poll.html

Try this, it ain't perfect but it's what we got and it's "one-vote-per".

Waiting for a better mousetrap.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Great survey!
Just wondered how many "purists" are out there.

I like that. "Purists". I find that flavors are nice once in awhile, but I like to stick to straight up ecig Tobacco flavor.

 

[dc2k08]

Hi guys some of you are wondering why the survey now appear to be closed. I am afraid I have had to temporarily close it due to recognisable sabotage.

The first hint of sabotage happened at around 2AM (GMT) today when 4 surveys were submitted one after another, some with sparse responses but included the responses age> 17 or below. all symtoms were checked and all were said to have persisted. Nitro-glycerin was said to be used and things like that - you get the picture.

These surveys were submitted a small time after this post was made here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...lectronic-cigarette-user-poll.html#post179123

It is important to read this thread to see the sequence of events. A forum member (and supplier) became enraged when a poll he had created was criticised. He was pointed by another forum member to the survey I had created and told it was perhaps a better model. I had never criticised this member's poll. In fact, I had filled it in earlier in the day and thought nothing more of it.

This post was then copied into my thread here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ctronic-cigarette-user-survey.html#post179250

This is where I first began to become aware that there was an issue. This post apeared to be an unwarranted attack on me so I asked the member flippantly if someone had set his pants on fire.

A conversation continued on this thread with this member which is important to read.

Two more sparse surveys were submitted at 3.05 am (GMT) describing the user as being aged 17 or under from the middle east and nothing else.

Another survey was submitted at 3.17 am describing the user as being aged 17 or under, chinese who smoked 40+ cigarettes a day as well as using 11ml+ of 36mg liquid. In the question on how they foresaw themselves in the future, the response was "another shmick trying to figure out how to do a proper survey". "jalapeno" was listed as a flavour they used. symptoms included "being accused of my pants being on fire" other remarks were "They have little microphones in them that the Chinese use to spy on us."..and other 'funny stuff'.

This morning beginning at 10.09am (GMT) a series of 25 forms were submitted describing the user as being 17 or under from Oceania and liking flavours such as 'garlic' and 'big mac' and 'anti-freeze' as a base for liquid etc etc.

Next a series of 14 forms were submitted describing the user as 75+ from Oceania who had used a 'Champix suppository', 'cucumber' as a flavour, more anti-freeze and symptoms of 'hairy palms'

There followed another series of submitted forms describing the user as being under 17 etc etc...and still more 'funny' responses...you get the picture

It was at this point I became aware that this was ocurring so I decided to stop accepting responses. Some of you are PMing me to ask why it is closed so I thought I would post here. more later.

You can see the results of the survey when it was closed here

 

[Steph2323]

Hi guys some of you are wondering why the survey now appear to be closed. I am afraid I have had to temporarily close it due to recognisable sabotage.

The first hint of sabotage happened at around 2AM (GMT) today when 4 surveys were submitted one after another, some with sparse responses but included the responses age> 17 or below. all symtoms were checked and all were said to have persisted. Nitro-glycerin was said to be used and things like that - you get the picture.

These surveys were submitted a small time after this post was made here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...lectronic-cigarette-user-poll.html#post179123

It is important to read this thread to see the sequence of events. A forum member (and supplier) became enraged when a poll he had created was criticised. He was pointed by another forum member to the survey I had created and told it was perhaps a better model. I had never criticised this member's poll. In fact, I had filled it in earlier in the day and thought nothing more of it.

This post was then copied into my thread here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ctronic-cigarette-user-survey.html#post179250

This is where I first began to become aware that there was an issue. This post apeared to be an unwarranted attack on me so I asked the member flippantly if someone had set his pants on fire.

A conversation continued on this thread with this member which is important to read.

Two more sparse surveys were submitted at 3.05 am (GMT) describing the user as being aged 17 or under from the middle east and nothing else.

Another survey was submitted at 3.17 am describing the user as being aged 17 or under, chinese who smoked 40 cigarettes a day as well as using 11ml+ of 36mg liquid. In the question on how they foresaw themselves in the future, the response was "another shmick trying to figure out how to do a proper survey". "jalapeno" was listed as a flavour they used. symptoms included "being accused of my pants being on fire" othere remarks were "They have little microphones in them that the Chinese use to spy on us."..and other 'funny stuff'.

This morning beginning at 10.09am (GMT) a series of 25 forms were submitted describing the user as being 17 or under from Oceania and liking flavours such as 'garlic' and 'big mac' and 'anti-freeze' as a base for liquid etc etc.

Next a series of 14 forms were submitted describing the user as 75+ from Oceania who had used a 'Champix suppository', 'cucumber' as a flavour, more anti-freeze and symptoms of 'hairy palms'

There followed another series of submitted forms describing the user as being under 17 etc etc...and still more 'funny' responses...you get the picture

It was at this point I became aware that this was ocurring so I decided to stop accepting responses. Some of you are PMing me to ask why it is closed so I thought I would post here. more later.

You can see the results of the survey when it was closed here

I am beyond disgusted. I hope that SJ is aware of this issue.
Stephanie

 

[esmok-e]

Listen, I did not become enraged. Your product had a fatal flaw. I tested it like any other QA test. Without "one-vote-per" it can't work. Period. That's a fundamental test criterion.

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

I tested your product per standard QA methodology. In fact I wrote the Process Control QA Methodology for the Ernst & Young Fusion Methodology (look it up).

Furthermore I was the Chief E-Technology Architect for the City of New York as well as the Manager of Citywide Information Security for the oldest law enforcement agency in the US (NYC DOI) (look them up). I oversaw the QA process for 110 agencies including the Department of Health and Health & Hospitals Corporation.

I also wrote policies for major pharmaceutical companies and did risk assessment and compliance audits for them, such as Commonhealth, Orchid and many others (look it up).

And FYI I graduated from The Cooper Union. Rated the #1 engineering college in the world. Full scholarship, grants, stipends and post-graduate fellowship from NIST. Look it up.

So if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

You want to have a p*sing contest, stand on your head. You want to compete with a product that does the job right... you haven't got there yet.

End of story. Put your money where your mouth is. Now I'm starting to get miffed. You are the angry, defensive and self-proclaimed mind reader who thinks he knows every one else's game. You just don't get it, man, do you?

Nevermind, don't answer that, it's obvious that your mind's on vacation but your keyboard's working overtime.

 

[dc2k08]

I'm disappointed too steph. The poll was an anonymous one so I have no certainty who is behind the bogus submissions so SJ or anyone else can be aware of the situation as much as they want. It won't change anything unfortunately.

 

[Kate]

Esmoke.net has just admitted sabotage DC - s/he calls it 'testing'.

This person created multiple accounts before and got banned for it. They criticised Johnson Creek, other disposable atomiser brands and went on the Bloog forum to have a go at them too.

Listen, I did not become enraged. Your product had a fatal flaw. I tested it like any other QA test. Without "one-vote-per" it can't work. Period. That's a fundamental test criterion.

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

I tested your product per standard QA methodology. In fact I wrote the Process Control QA Methodology for the Ernst & Young Fusion Methodology (look it up).

Furthermore I was the Chief E-Technology Architect for the City of New York as well as the Manager of Citywide Information Security for the oldest law enforcement agency in the US (NYC DOI) (look them up). I oversaw the QA process for 110 agencies including the Department of Health and Health & Hospitals Corporation.

I also wrote policies for major pharmaceutical companies and did risk assessment and compliance audits for them, such as Commonhealth, Orchid and many others (look it up).

And FYI I graduated from The Cooper Union. Rated the #1 engineering college in the world. Full scholarship, grants, stipends and post-graduate fellowship from NIST. Look it up.

So if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

You want to have a p*sing contest, stand on your head. You want to compete with a product that does the job right... you haven't got there yet.

End of story. Put your money where your mouth is. Now I'm starting to get miffed. You are the angry, defensive and self-proclaimed mind reader who thinks he knows every one else's game. You just don't get it, man, do you?

Nevermind, don't answer that, it's obvious that your mind's on vacation but your keyboard's working overtime.

Sorry for breaking my vows of silence here but this person is obviously a destructive troll, not concerned about the good of the community at all.

 

[esmok-e]

I told you, I did the QA. If you checked the IP address you would see. I wrote a "kiddie-script" to fill out and submit. I could've submitted a million surveys.
You had no field length masks so my next step was to hit you with a buffer overflow. That could've brought down the site.

Did I mention that I performed thousands of these tests for almost every major bank, insurance companies, auto companies (GM), even Philip Morris and several Pharmaceutical companies specializing in CFR 21 and FDA compliance for test results and documentation compliance including records retention and privacy assurance.

You want me to prove it? I'll prove it.

Meanwhile, folks take the little crummy poll that the admin made a sticky, at least you can't be a wise guy there more than once. You got one shot, make it count.

Let's put our energy where it counts and do what works to reach our goal.

 

[esmok-e]

How about a survey to vote me out of here? One question, easily done in vb right here on the forum. Ban me from voting on it (easy to do) and I'll live with the outcome.

Fair?

Whatta comeback for Kate. Get your facts straight. You can't sabotage a plane that's already crashed before it left the ground. It's not breaking in if the windows and doors are wide open and the sign says welcome. Take up your other accusations with SJ. Let him excommunicate me or else do the survey. It's his forum and he can make the call. If you all vote, I'll respect the results 100%. Either way it goes, I will oblige to the T.

I wont try to get revenge with the techno-warfare. I'm on the right side of the law, with FBI clearance, even. If you accuse me of sabotage, I'll be happy to see you in any courtroom.