I assume the policy differs from store to store. Where I live, vaping now is just taking off and all the Starbucks do not allow it stating that it's up to cooperate. Most of them are too scared to allow people because of cooperate I am assuming.
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I don't have all the answers, but is it possible that Starbucks runs corporate stores AND they supply franchises like most every other chain operation? If so, the parent company isn't likely to yank someones franchise for setting their own policy. Conversely they certainly can require their corporate stores to comply.
That said, I do think I can shed some light on why some people are dead set against vaping where smoking not allowed. It's an issue of perception of the uneducated masses. They don't know it's vapor. They see vapor and it's automatically equated with smoking (walks like a duck, swims like a duck...) Please remember that one person's perception IS their reality.
The non smoker is who we as vapers need on our side. We need their support or at least indifference to vaping when it comes to future regulation. What we don't want is to alienate the non smokers by allowing the perception vapers are using some loophole or outright defying 'the rules'.
On the other hand we need to be visible and educate the target audience on the relative harmless and unoffensive nature of vaping. It's a fine line and sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. This is the opinion of many who say we shouldn't vape where we can't smoke.
Personally, I don't vape where smoking isn't allowed, but I do vape anywhere else I care to in public.
That said, I do think I can shed some light on why some people are dead set against vaping where smoking not allowed. It's an issue of perception of the uneducated masses. They don't know it's vapor. They see vapor and it's automatically equated with smoking (walks like a duck, swims like a duck...) Please remember that one person's perception IS their reality.
The non smoker is who we as vapers need on our side. We need their support or at least indifference to vaping when it comes to future regulation. What we don't want is to alienate the non smokers by allowing the perception vapers are using some loophole or outright defying 'the rules'.
On the other hand we need to be visible and educate the target audience on the relative harmless and unoffensive nature of vaping. It's a fine line and sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. This is the opinion of many who say we shouldn't vape where we can't smoke.
Personally, I don't vape where smoking isn't allowed, but I do vape anywhere else I care to in public.
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To answer your question, none of it.
In fact, I no longer go to Starbucks and I wrote them a letter explaining why.
But the other part of this issue is that they seem to think they can stop you from vaping with 25 feet of their property.
And within that 25 feet I am sure there is plenty of public space in most cases.
I practice the same.
I have never really felt the need to vape in a store or restaurant, but otherwise I don't hide it. I am not ashamed, and for all I know the dude giving me dirty looks from across the way just doesn't like my shoes. I have never been one to be concerned what people think of me, but I don't go out with the intent of miffing a bunch of people off wherever I go. I have always replied intelligently and courteously to questions or requests to stop smoking, and it has gone much farther IMO than posturing, scowling and spouting a bunch of random facts about vaping and why they should mind their own business. I suppose I'm just not vape militia material.
As long as the area you are standing at is public, (like a sidewalk), and you are not blocking it, it is your right to stand there and partake in something that is legal. It can be a civil right violation to force someone to leave a public way when no violations of law are being committed. That is why you see picket lines pacing up and down the sidewalk. They can legally do it as long as they remain off of private property.
I have spoken with a number of "non-smokers", "non-vapers" about how they feel about people vaping in public. The annoying facts are these:
1. They don't understand what vaping is. They see a cloud and instantly think BAD!!!
2. They DO NOT WANT TO UNDERSTAND what vaping is. Some people certainly don't mind once they understand the difference, but many others do. I've tried explaining to a few people the huge difference between vaping and smoking (using all the talking points like no smell except good smell, no ash, no hazardous second-hand, etc) and regardless of how sound and logical my explanation was, they just don't care and HATE THE IDEA of seeing people vape in public. (I can't stress how much this one bothers me, but it's true)
My point is this ... with a lot of people feeling this way, when they see someone vape in public it's going to REALLY bother them ... that's a fact ... Some may let it slide but some won't ... They will take action and contact their Representative to get vaping banned in more places...Yes, someone actually told me they did this. They feel like they are being wronged by having to be around vapers and they will do what it takes to stop it.
Do I think people need to be educated on vaping, absolutely ... Do I think its possible to change the minds of stubborn people, yes ... Can I be stubborn myself and say something like "vaping isn't smoking, I'm not doing anything wrong, so I am going to vape or stealth vape in public...if someone sees me, then they'll just have to get over it", I sure can say that.
But here is the thing, there is no way we are going to change the minds of those people by forcing them to look at something THEY BELIEVE to be bad and very unhealthy and force feeding it to them is only going to hurt our cause.
It's also worth mentioning that it's these stubborn people who know absolutely nothing about what vaping is that are leading the charge against us in Government, so with all the legislation trying to be passed these days, do we really need to give them more arsenal?
1. They don't understand what vaping is. They see a cloud and instantly think BAD!!!
2. They DO NOT WANT TO UNDERSTAND what vaping is. Some people certainly don't mind once they understand the difference, but many others do. I've tried explaining to a few people the huge difference between vaping and smoking (using all the talking points like no smell except good smell, no ash, no hazardous second-hand, etc) and regardless of how sound and logical my explanation was, they just don't care and HATE THE IDEA of seeing people vape in public. (I can't stress how much this one bothers me, but it's true)
My point is this ... with a lot of people feeling this way, when they see someone vape in public it's going to REALLY bother them ... that's a fact ... Some may let it slide but some won't ... They will take action and contact their Representative to get vaping banned in more places...Yes, someone actually told me they did this. They feel like they are being wronged by having to be around vapers and they will do what it takes to stop it.
Do I think people need to be educated on vaping, absolutely ... Do I think its possible to change the minds of stubborn people, yes ... Can I be stubborn myself and say something like "vaping isn't smoking, I'm not doing anything wrong, so I am going to vape or stealth vape in public...if someone sees me, then they'll just have to get over it", I sure can say that.
But here is the thing, there is no way we are going to change the minds of those people by forcing them to look at something THEY BELIEVE to be bad and very unhealthy and force feeding it to them is only going to hurt our cause.
It's also worth mentioning that it's these stubborn people who know absolutely nothing about what vaping is that are leading the charge against us in Government, so with all the legislation trying to be passed these days, do we really need to give them more arsenal?
This is how I look at it...
There are two kinds of regulation that we need to concern ourselves with...
--Regulations that will be coming from the FDA which have the potential to decimate vaping as we know it
--Regulations to treat vaping the same way smoking is treated
Regarding the first regulations, I'm not sure how much good "support" of the general public is going to do us. When those regulations are proposed, if they have provisions that we do not like, what we are going to need is a significant level of activism in opposition. We are not going to get the general public to start sending comments to the FDA in support of us. To fight those regulations we need highly motivated people like our friends and family to do all they can to help us. Whether or not we upset any of the easily offended by vaping where smoking is not allowed is unlikely to have any impact whatsoever on these regulations.
Regarding the second regulations, if we act like smokers, they will continue to treat us like smokers. If we are already doing what the easily offended want us doing, they'll just keep on rolling right over us like they did when we were smoking. Those that are easily offended by our vaping are very unlikely to ever change their minds, and we're most likely not going to get any of them on our side by not vaping where smoking is not allowed. In fact, we'll only be encouraging them. The people we do want on our side are the ones that aren't militant about the issue. We'll only get them on our side by showing them that our vaping actually doesn't bother them at all.
And as a warning to people who don't think we should vape where we are not allowed to smoke, the kinds of places where such restrictions are in place are growing by the day. Entire hospital campuses, entire college campuses, public parks, public beaches, and the list just continues to grow.
The people that are leading the charge against us are anti-smoking zealots that will never change their minds.
They are the ones introducing nearly 100% of the legislation against us.
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So I'm just trying to understand...
Do you think vaping where smoking is not allowed is going to make them even angrier?
Is it going to cause them to accelerate the pace of their attacks on us?
Hear, hear.
Yes, I recognize that there are people out there who will never accept vaping, no matter how many studies are produced proving it is safe. After all, there are also those who believe in miracle diet drugs, think measles vaccines cause autism, and are convinced the earth is only 6000 years old and all the fossils are just a hoax. I have to believe that far more people can be persuaded by patient logic and personal experience, and care more about living peacefully than they do about controlling other people.
And please don't try to convince me otherwise. If I ever really stopped believing that most people are basically reasonable and good, I don't think I could get out of bed every morning. Now that I have some hope of a longer life, leave me some hope of it being a happy one.
Drunk with power. Enough is enough.
Again, I don't like your (not you personally DC2) perfume and hair color and weight and partner choice and religion and family size and definition of words and beverage and food and........................
stop it. Small number of loud mouth bullies proclaiming they hate bullies mentality. Mind your own business and I'll mind mine.
I just love this forum!
How reputable is a thick headed individual calling another individual thick headed?
Farting is a natural body process and harmless. Do people need to be "educated" when they get disgruntled by my farting?
I think it's obvious to say that vaping is not 100% socially accepted right now. A lot of people need to "educate" themselves and stop treating vaping like it is a socially accepted activity.
When out in public vape all you want. When in private establishments such as stores/restaurants just ask them real quick to see if they are comfortable with it. Once were in a time where vaping is at a well known state I can understand people being all up in arms about bannings, but right now? You would be as ignorant as the ones your calling ignorant right now.
Farting is a natural body process and harmless. Do people need to be "educated" when they get disgruntled by my farting?
I think it's obvious to say that vaping is not 100% socially accepted right now. A lot of people need to "educate" themselves and stop treating vaping like it is a socially accepted activity.
When out in public vape all you want. When in private establishments such as stores/restaurants just ask them real quick to see if they are comfortable with it. Once were in a time where vaping is at a well known state I can understand people being all up in arms about bannings, but right now? You would be as ignorant as the ones your calling ignorant right now.
BTW has anybody else realized that we actually have instructions printed on shampoo bottles? Really have we as a society become so dumb that we need directions on how to wash our hair? Wet,apply,rinse. I miss common sense. Wait, I think I vaped the last of mine yesterday, tasted like graham cracker. Shall we now discuss what my bottle of common tasted like to you? lol
I once had a conversation with a woman in Detroit. We waxed politics and FDA, she was anti-smoking but open to the thought of vaping. As we were talking, a city bus pulled to a stop and idled for a minute. A thought occurred to me and I grabbed her attention. "Just watch" I said.
As the bus rolled away and the driver hammered the gas, a huge belch of black diesel exhaust rolled out of the tail pipe and we both laughed. The concept of "clean air" was blown to bits. She wished me luck, said she hopes that we as vapers prevail and went on about her business. Sometimes a little perspective is all you need.
As the bus rolled away and the driver hammered the gas, a huge belch of black diesel exhaust rolled out of the tail pipe and we both laughed. The concept of "clean air" was blown to bits. She wished me luck, said she hopes that we as vapers prevail and went on about her business. Sometimes a little perspective is all you need.
And what if when that time arrives, vaping is ALREADY banned everywhere smoking is banned?
That's the way it's going to be in California pretty soon if we fail to stop the current bill.
How about where you live? How soon does it happen to you? Do you think we'll be able to turn back the clock?
I wonder if anyone can name any other things that have been banned before it was shown that there was a reason to do so.
And farting is certainly not a good example, because that isn't banned yet.
There will always be people who will be bothered by vaping, or claim to be bothered by it, which is why vaping will eventually be prohibited where smoking is. The nanny states will, or course, be first with the bans. If someone vapes at Target and someone else calls corporate to complain, there will be a no e-cig use sign on the doors of every Target a few weeks later. This is the society the majority of people have voted for.
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