Alcohol Content.

[Kurt]

Also, cookies made with alcohol in them will not have alcohol in the end because the baking will evaporate it away. alcohol rarely survives in food that is cooked, due to evaporation. PVs are designed so that all evaporation products can be potentially absorbed, including alcohol. That is a simple fact.

As I said, there is ZERO necessity to have alcohol in e-juice. If anything it is a "luxury" ingredient that enhances wicking and flavor, both of which distilled water does just fine, at least in my experience.

 

[Kurt]

I am a recovering alcoholic as well. I have never had or felt any ill effects from vapeing. But now you all have me worried I hope that there is no alacohol in my blood now from vapeing..

It might be detectable, but it would be far lower than the legal limit for driving, I am sure. It most certainly is present. Whether or not it affects you is another story. It depends on the person, and their metabolism. It affected me, but I have little tolerance for alcohol, and a life that requires being extremely sharp and physically agile and fast, probably more than most, so for me it was an issue that needed to be fixed, which distilled water did just fine with little loss of vapor, wicking or flavor quality.

If you have an actual monitor that detects alcohol, I dont know the level that sets it off. I personally would be avoiding alcohol in my juices if I had one of these, but as I said, people can do what they want. And generally do. I am not trying to tell people what they can vape. I am only saying what affected me, why I think it did what it did, based on decades of chemical and biochemical education and professional experience, along with some past recreational inebriation experience, and what I did to remedy it. We are all adults here that should be able to decide for themselves what they should vape, and what they should not.

 

[Jherek]

This thread has me concerned, though I haven't noticed any such effect from using a small amount of alcohol in my mix.

It seems to me that the heat from the atomizer would break down at least SOME of the alcohol. Wouldn't it? Neither would all of it be absorbed, of course.

 

[Kurt]

This thread has me concerned, though I haven't noticed any such effect from using a small amount of alcohol in my mix.

It seems to me that the heat from the atomizer would break down at least SOME of the alcohol. Wouldn't it? Neither would all of it be absorbed, of course.

No, there is no thermal decomposition of the alcohol. This has been shown with GC-MS analysis of the vapor. In fact, nothing gets hot enough to decompose in the juice, only vaporize, as long as the atty is not glowing hot. It boils only, it doesn't react. People that are saying it gets "cooked" or "breaks down" simply do not know the chemical facts. It becomes part of the vapor.

If you do not think that the alcohol is affecting you, I wouldn't worry about it at all, as it probably isn't. If you are using a few drops for every 5 or 6 mL of juice, it is not much at all. I was using 10% in my juice, and it was affecting me, and I could certainly feel it. Many people have a glass of wine with dinner, without any issues at all. I cannot do that! Alcohol affects me strongly. I do kendo (japanese sword) and gung fu. Anything that impairs the equilibrium even a little makes those two things very dangerous, to me and to others.

Yes, some is exhaled, like the rest of the vapor, but some is absorbed, no doubt. Has to be. I didn't want to believe it would affect me. But I cut it out, and felt fine again. Added it back, and felt it again. Cut it out again, and was fine. Did this several times.

Many people here use it without issues. Some here don't want alcohol at all. Some are affected strongly by alcohol. Water works fine if you are concerned.

 

[Wall]

This thread has me concerned, though I haven't noticed any such effect from using a small amount of alcohol in my mix.

It seems to me that the heat from the atomizer would break down at least SOME of the alcohol. Wouldn't it? Neither would all of it be absorbed, of course.

Whatever the atomizer does, you still inhale the byproduct. In such a low mixture I would assume that nicotine, alcohol, food coloring, etc, is suspended in the massive amounts of pg/vg that the juice is made out of %age wise, and you inhale that.

The alcohol might evaporate when exposed to heat, but you are still breathing it in. If you think the alcohol is destroyed/burnt up by the heat, I dont think that is the purpose of vaporizer element, and seems unlikely that a significant portion would do so. Otherwise, why would alcohol cause a bigger throat hit if it was all gone by the time it got to your throat?

 

[MBblue]

Being a newbie to this forum, I appreciate everyones responses. This forum is outstanding. Thank you all so much. I've been stressing on this for some time now and it's good to have a few facts.

 

[Jherek]

Well, Kurt and Wall, your reasoning seems sound. Well, starting tomorrow, I'll give distilled water a shot and see if there are any appreciable differences.

BTW, this could, incidentally, be of interest to another thread here in the new members' forum: the one on "green gunk" on atomizer and battery threads. I haven't noticed any at all in some time, and wonder if this could be due to using alcohol, rather that DW.

We shall see.

 

[Kurt]

Well, Kurt and Wall, your reasoning seems sound. Well, starting tomorrow, I'll give distilled water a shot and see if there are any appreciable differences.

BTW, this could, incidentally, be of interest to another thread here in the new members' forum: the one on "green gunk" on atomizer and battery threads. I haven't noticed any at all in some time, and wonder if this could be due to using alcohol, rather that DW.

We shall see.

I will watch for the green. I am not familiar with this issue, and haven't had it when I was just using vtvapor unflavored juice, flavor and added vg. the unflavored has water added by Adam, the producer, and I think it is about 20% or more, so if it was water, I think I would have seen it. Could be colors, as some flavors have red or blue or yellow added, like blueberry. I don't vape colors if I can help it, but that's another issue entirely. The batt and atty threads do get a dark material that I think is a little decomposition between terminals from the current passing, but it is more black than green in my experience.

 

[Raenon]

the ounces to milliliter conversion was wrong. 160 ounces=4732 milliliters. just google ounces millilter conversion. so 0.5/4732=.0001 or .01%

Hmm, You're right and I'm not sure how I managed to not only make that math error (bad calculator!), but I didn't catch it any let it continue through.

Either way, it still holds.

If you INJECTED half a ml of pure alcohol directly into your bloodstream, you'd have 0.01% BAC.
Inhaling the vapor doesn't get it "directly into your brain", that's just silly. Nothing gets directly into the brain unless you use a large drill.
Inhaling might conceivably be faster than drinking, but it's nowhere near as effective as direct injection, AND you're not vaporizing half a ml all at once- that's a maximum of half a ml if you're cutting 20% into 2.5ml of juice a day, which is something that most of us would take ALL day to vape (and who cuts 20% ? Flooded attys, much?).
Oh, and that also assumes that you inhale every bit of the vaporized alchol and don't exhale any of it with the rest of the vapor that you exhale... and of course, your liver will continue to metabolise all the tiny quantities you take in- it doesn't all store up throughout the day to hit you at once.

And a brandy snifter is NOT to get drunk off the fumes of alcohol, it's to condense the aromas as you sip it.

People who think they get drunk off the smell of liquor are fooling themselves.
If you smell the alcohol in e-liquid and find it unpleasant for any reason (including just being reminded of the drink), then don't use it. You can DIY with distilled water and it'll make a passable vape, but if you don't have ethical/medical/personal reasons for not using the ethanol, it really does produce a superior end product.

 

[Shadowdr]

I can't say how much alchol is actually retained after vaping but I can tell you that much of it is exhaled, I can taste it. I drip PGA straight into the atty to melt away the hardend juice. It works very, very well and does have a specific flavor. I usually only use a drop or two at a time but I have never felt anything from it. To be honest I like the taste and it does give several good throat hits even from what seems to be a dry atty, before it is dissapated.

 

[Kurt]

Hmm, You're right and I'm not sure how I managed to not only make that math error (bad calculator!), but I didn't catch it any let it continue through.

Either way, it still holds.

If you INJECTED half a ml of pure alcohol directly into your bloodstream, you'd have 0.01% BAC.
Inhaling the vapor doesn't get it "directly into your brain", that's just silly. Nothing gets directly into the brain unless you use a large drill.
Inhaling might conceivably be faster than drinking, but it's nowhere near as effective as direct injection, AND you're not vaporizing half a ml all at once- that's a maximum of half a ml if you're cutting 20% into 2.5ml of juice a day, which is something that most of us would take ALL day to vape (and who cuts 20% ? Flooded attys, much?).
Oh, and that also assumes that you inhale every bit of the vaporized alchol and don't exhale any of it with the rest of the vapor that you exhale... and of course, your liver will continue to metabolise all the tiny quantities you take in- it doesn't all store up throughout the day to hit you at once.

And a brandy snifter is NOT to get drunk off the fumes of alcohol, it's to condense the aromas as you sip it.

People who think they get drunk off the smell of liquor are fooling themselves.
If you smell the alcohol in e-liquid and find it unpleasant for any reason (including just being reminded of the drink), then don't use it. You can DIY with distilled water and it'll make a passable vape, but if you don't have ethical/medical/personal reasons for not using the ethanol, it really does produce a superior end product.

Raenon, I'm not getting the hostile tone from you. Forgive me if I am reading that into your words. I am merely relating concerning symptoms I experienced strongly correlated with having 10% vodka in my ejuice, and how removing it and using water instead remedied that. Since I have had similar experiences to the symptoms I had with other forms of inhaled ethanol, I figured they might be related. And since I am very sensitive to alcohol, and didn't sign up to be affected by it, and got tired of being affected by it, I took it out, and I got better.

Evidently this upset you, since in your first ever response to a posting of mine, that I recall, you told me you hated me. I found that very odd, but I was willing to forget about it and blame the nic. Then I was just silly for being strongly affected by a brandy pipe. Silly? Fooling myself?

Ever use one? Ever put hot cognac in a snifter and just inhale with your nose inside many many times in a row?

You've made a great effort to make sure your numbers are correct...to keep you from being arrested on a DUI. Can you prove this? Do you not think that some people might be concerned about alcohol at levels much lower than this? Or that perhaps their profession might require a mental or physical precision that is far more important than just not being caught? Are they silly and foolish too?

Your references to blood and liver function, however, lead me to think you may have something to teach me. Tell me please, what is your background? I have some education on this, but I am always willing to learn more.

I do agree with you, though: with alcohol is a slightly better vape, in terms of flavor. I actually like the TH better with water though...smoother to me, and moister. Never went for the dry scratchy THs. And my lips don't get as dried out. But I'm probably being silly and foolish again. I do that.

Thanks.
Kurt

 

[Madame Psychosis]

To address the OP's concern about throat hit -- nicotine is what makes most of the throat hit. Flavorings and alcohol assist. But you can definitely make good DIY liquids without alcohol.

People here add grain alcohol or vodka at low percentages to their liquids to add extra throat hit, but it is not necessary for a good throat hit. (As Kurt pointed out, distilled water does fine.)
Menthol crystals dissolved in eliquid can also add TH, though.
Using mostly PG instead of VG will also maintain more throat hit (and then you don't need to add distilled water or anything else to thin out the liquid, which you need to do with VG).

Best of luck and welcome to the forum!

 

[Triumph]

Hmmmm this is quite interesting.......Where I work we have random drug and alcohol testing, the alcohol part is done by a breath test, they tell us not to eat/drink/smoke anything for 15 Mins before they do the test, but I`m just wondering whether any alcohol from the vapour would still be present?We have to have a breath test reading of NIL

 

[soylent]

Hmmmm this is quite interesting.......Where I work we have random drug and alcohol testing, the alcohol part is done by a breath test, they tell us not to eat/drink/smoke anything for 15 Mins before they do the test, but I`m just wondering whether any alcohol from the vapour would still be present?We have to have a breath test reading of NIL

I could see some being present if you hot box your pv with juice that contains alcohol right before the breath test. However 15 minutes would be plenty of time for absorption.

So I would follow the 15 minute rule just to be on the safe side.

 

[Kurt]

Hmmmm this is quite interesting.......Where I work we have random drug and alcohol testing, the alcohol part is done by a breath test, they tell us not to eat/drink/smoke anything for 15 Mins before they do the test, but I`m just wondering whether any alcohol from the vapour would still be present?We have to have a breath test reading of NIL

Triumph, I can't say if it would test positive with breath test. The only way you could know is by vaping a juice with alc in it and taking a breath test. Perhaps they sell them over the counter. I don't think anyone here has reported such an issue, but only a test would tell you for sure. I personally would not take the word of someone who has also probably not done a breath test. Being that I am a chemist, I would only feel assured if I had concrete data, which should be possible to obtain for not a lot of money, I would think. If you are not drinking on the job or doing drugs, and ecigs are accepted in UK, seems reasonable to be up front with those administering the tests about your concerns. I would think after 15 minutes any residual would be gone, but I would be surprised if anyone here has actually measured it, and I am not someone that would risk employment, especially if I didn't know the minimum level they would consider a positive, another variable here. Perhaps someone here has experienced a similar thing and could report, or perhaps you could actually ask for a test and let them know why. I would think they might be very reasonable with you about it, given the positive climate ecigs have in the UK.

 

[Triumph]

Yes, I think I`ll invest in a cheap alcohol breath tester just to be on the safe side and get some indication, it would be interesting to find out in any case.

I`ll report back here when I have some results, it may be a couple of weeks as I`m going to order the tester from China as they`re pretty expensive here..

 

[Kurt]

I'm now a few days into using DW to thin VG juices rather than vodka. All mental and physical agility has returned like it never left. Perhaps this is a placebo effect, but I don't care. For whatever reason I am back to normal in every way that was concerning to me. Thank god for that, as the "fog" was really costing me time and productivity on all fronts...I just felt lazy-headed, lazy-bodied, and a bit stupid all the time.

Spoke to someone who knows more about the effects of inhaled alcohol in terms of neurological responses, as this was part of his graduate and professional work. His response was absolutely yes, inhaled alcohol goes directly to the brain far faster and more intensely than if it is drank. All inhaled compounds do. When I told him the amounts I was going through he was actually surprised I was as functional as I was, but then he doesn't drink either, and is also very sensitive to alcohol. He also was aware of brandy pipes and their sedating affects.

The vape is great with DW. I compared the TH with a real analog, and they are virtually the same. So for me anyway, alcohol was making a much stronger TH than that which I was trying to simulate in the first place. Flavor needs to be upped by a few drops when making the juice, but I am satisfied with about 14 mg nic level, and the TH is now ALL nic, nothing adding to it like PG or alcohol. I am most certainly getting plenty of nic with VG/DW, there is no doubt. I think that vaping quality is more of a function of my cart mod (ZFM) than what I thin the VG with. DW is not at all a compromise or downgrade compared to using alcohol, if the last few days are an indication. The juices I made with vodka can still be vaped if I feel like a "cocktail", but I'm more than happy with the results of the DW.

 

[bombastinator]

I think he's assuming that the eliquid is 100% nicotine or something. i suspect ingesting 50ml liquid could make you pretty sick, but 50ml liquid is 5% nicotine. IIRC I read that pure nicotene would be 1010ml. I've heard of 300ml nicotine eliquid in china though and I suspect that stuff will do you dead right fast.

 

[bombastinator]

I suspect you could just volunteer to try it. Inform them that you want to see if it will read as alcohol or not first. Do two tests, before and after vaping. The before one is needed to make sure that you actually have no alcohol in your system. If you're worried you could come in on one of your days off so even if you blow positie it won't matter. Maybe even try vaping some vodka to see what you get.

If you do it I'd be very curious what the results are. Teh makers of the drug and alcohol tests might be too.

 

[jwilkers]

I saw this threadand am worried... would a e-cig cause someone to fail a urine screen for ethanol/alcohol? I vape Mistics.