Yeah, BCC as well as Cinnamon Coffee Cake for me works best used very lightly (equal to or under 1%) since the cinnamon in those is strongest. Never tried butter, but I imagine it'll be one I use ultra low if I ever am so inclined to use it.
All Flavoring Manufacturers: An Open Discussion
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Yeah, BCC as well as Cinnamon Coffee Cake for me works best used very lightly (equal to or under 1%) since the cinnamon in those is strongest. Never tried butter, but I imagine it'll be one I use ultra low if I ever am so inclined to use it.
I feel so guilty reading this thread! I haven't paid too much attention to the whole diketone thing. I mean sure I'll order the flavors without them if they're in my face but if not I really don't stress it. I would love to say this is all making me think twice but hmmm it's not. To each his own?
Also Andria? When you mix the HFM route do you notice that after like 5-7 days they steep into really strong mixes?
It's great if you make a small batch and vape immediately but if you make a larger amount I find it steeps into something fierce. I was just wondering if it happened to you. If you mix that way that is. ...
Lately I've been going lower with my %'s and still having good results and I can still shake and vape which is awesome.
Oh and TFA VANILLA SWIRL! Can't live without it! It goes into almost everything! Although I've never tasted it alone I'm about to this weekend. I've given in and decided to do some testing of some single flavors to see exactly what they taste like. But up until now Vanilla Swirl had been a staple in my collection!
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Also Andria? When you mix the HFM route do you notice that after like 5-7 days they steep into really strong mixes?
It's great if you make a small batch and vape immediately but if you make a larger amount I find it steeps into something fierce. I was just wondering if it happened to you. If you mix that way that is. ...
Lately I've been going lower with my %'s and still having good results and I can still shake and vape which is awesome.
Oh and TFA VANILLA SWIRL! Can't live without it! It goes into almost everything! Although I've never tasted it alone I'm about to this weekend. I've given in and decided to do some testing of some single flavors to see exactly what they taste like. But up until now Vanilla Swirl had been a staple in my collection!
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Thanks for taking the time to confirm this and to share the info. Your investigation confirms the caveat emptor that we DIY'er should all apply, all the time, with all suppliers, and with all ingredients of all our e-liquids.
I got TFA Swirl coming soon, so I hope it will be all that I've heard/read it is. I sure need a good vanilla. Well, doesn't everyone?
As far as the diketone thing, it should only matter to you if it does. I am not one that thinks everyone should be forced to vape how others want to, but for those that do really care, I feel they should be able to know ahead of time which flavorings do have it. But, it is a slippery slope and once investigating all this stuff it reveals itself to be rife with roadblocks. As of now we do what we can to find what we are looking for, but I don't mean to make others feel that they *should* care as I do. Hell, some days I don't care! I do have a goal of making my liquids without it as much as possible, but if you've read the last few posts you'll see that it is difficult when using myriad flavoring manufacturers.
Fw blood orange at 15% too much for me, I too am starting to get the gist of overflavoring, will try at lower %, yes I get either overly harsh(throat punch not hit and irritation), and/or that weird oversaturated muting effect or chemical taste...I know with fw people usually rec 15% for single, I have to do lower...no more high %, just a waste of flavoring and time, gotta stick low.
I'm actually impressed that cap disclosed the info, think read in past that people had a hard time getting info before, sucks cause I wanted to try the butter, and I do like bcc....trying to phase out and use safer replacements v2's or dx....I guess there will be some they maybe just can't reformulate(like butter especially), but fingers crossed we see more /wishful thinking? I mean cap has put out quite a few v2's as of late and tfa-van bean gelato and van swirl....I know some vendors have been changing their recipes because of these concerns too, and some haven't.
Mr. Mann, course we trust you, you've been quite an informative veteran on ecf all along, always been cool/respectful of individual choices without being preachy/obnoxious about it, you're just telling it as it is.
I'm actually impressed that cap disclosed the info, think read in past that people had a hard time getting info before, sucks cause I wanted to try the butter, and I do like bcc....trying to phase out and use safer replacements v2's or dx....I guess there will be some they maybe just can't reformulate(like butter especially), but fingers crossed we see more /wishful thinking? I mean cap has put out quite a few v2's as of late and tfa-van bean gelato and van swirl....I know some vendors have been changing their recipes because of these concerns too, and some haven't.
Mr. Mann, course we trust you, you've been quite an informative veteran on ecf all along, always been cool/respectful of individual choices without being preachy/obnoxious about it, you're just telling it as it is.
Thanks, BBM. I've surely had my biodegradable moments though. LOL
I totally get what you are saying about high %. When we use a flavoring, any flavoring, it is going to be some part solvent and other part(s) flavoring molecules(?). So when using highly concentrated flavorings vs. ones that need to go high, the ones that need to go high will also be adding more solvent/flavor carriers (PG/alcohol/triacetin/etc.). So I imagine that when you start to get those weird tastes, it's not necessarily about the flavor but the other stuff. That's one reason why I love FA (or strong flavors in general) so much: you don't have to add as much non-flavoring (filler) to get more flavor.
Having said that, sometimes the weak flavors are easy to work with simply becasue their range is so vast. But of course I can make any highly concentrated flavor just like that buy making a pre-dilution before adding it to my mix.
ex: if anyone here is looking for a truly awesome sweetener and if you enjoy the taste of honey, try FlavourArt's Honey. BUT, BUT, BUT, don't use it straight! Make a 20% dilution in PG and then use that at one drop per 5 mL (or thereabout) in your recipes (don't get overzealous). Use it straight and it's overwhelming, but use it extremely diluted and it'll do wonders for your mix. I recently saw HeadInClouds recommend something similar.
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I don't actually know; I've finally arrived at what I think is the perfect recipe for my Strawberries and Cream, but since I was still kinda working it out, and also because I was kinda low on my unflavored WTA, I haven't made really large (30ml or more) batches of the strawberry. But, I just got a new bottle of the unflavored WTA, so I'm about to mix up a 30ml batch of the strawberry to get me thru the rest of January at my 9% WTA level -- in February I'll be starting to use the WTA at 8%, but with such a minor change, I probably won't change the recipe; in a few months, when my WTA usage is down to 5% or less, I may need to adjust some parts of the recipe.
But, I think Bill did address this issue; by using citric acid in the mix, it apparently stabilizes the flavor so it doesn't keep changing. The instructions I gleaned for using that are, dissolve a *scant* 1/4-tsp in 10ml of PG; then, use that at 1% in a mix.
Also -- BBmom -- I think I've finally figured out that, at least for me, the most realistic blueberry flavor is probably the Blueberry Extra, followed by Wild Blueberry, followed by CAP blueberry. The bilberry tastes like the fruit 'n grain bars, which isn't my favorite way to eat blueberry-flavored stuff. It's better than the FW blueberry, but not by a great deal.
Andria
I love a mixture of Extra and Wild! Those two together really hit the spot.
Andria, that didn't take you long at all finding your blueberry preferences! Fa bilberry didn't wow me much, just was not the taste I wanted/expected-guess the blueberry grain bars comparison is actually pretty accurate(!), never tried inawera, cap, or fw, been happy enough with wild and extra mixed together
Ohh, the bilberry I got was the INW -- haven't tried the FA, but I guess now I don't need to.
The INW bilberry isn't bad, it's just not really what I was looking for; if I ever do manage to narrow down a recipe I like for blueberry muffin, I might use some of the INW billberry at a *very* low percentage, just to add the "baked bluberries" sort of flavor, but the TFA blueberries will definitely dominate.I'm just glad I narrowed it down to the TFA B-X and B-W; I like the prices on TFA flavors!!
I just mixed that 30ml of my strawberries and cream, and I use such a high percentage of the shisha strawberry in it (16.5%), now I gotta get some more!
I suppose it would pay to go ahead and order from inawera.com so I can get a bigger bottle! Then again... I may order some of the FA strawberry so I can try it out; it's not much cheaper than INW, but a little. And maybe it won't be such a gunker.Andria
I swear, with bcv closed for site maintenance....flavor shopping/wish list adjusting withdrawals.....anyways....has anyone tried cap BlackBerry? Mr. Mann, you were looking at VZ next I think on quest for delicious blackberry...(????) Cap lemon Sicily anyone try yet?
I've hit that down for maintenance thing at BCV twice now today. *sigh* I guess they're updating the descriptions for those they didn't know have diketones.
Andria
Andria
Cap Blackberry is okay, but nothing I care to use. I am a huge fan of Lemon Sicily from FA, so I have not tried Cap's version.
FW Blackberry is better than Capella, but it gets too close to Kool-Aid blackberry. Still hunting, but I also don't want to fork over the money on those VZ concentrates -- yet. I'll try Flavor's Express next.
FWIW, the flavor express tobaccos --- Tobacco Express -- seem to be pretty good; their "Virginia" is EXCELLENT, though I did use a smidgen of Bitter Wizard, and a light touch of apple and cinnamon redhot. their golden Virginia is also not bad; it's got a nice smokiness to it, but it's also really "vegetative" tasting, sorta like the crisper drawer after you've removed the rotten sodden celery. Nasty taste, but for that smokiness, I think I used .5% of the golden. Now that I have the VA Tabacco Absolute, I'd probably use that instead -- if I still cared to vape Virginia, which I don't really -- though if I got an actual hard craving for a smoke, that's probably what I'd go back to. I like the sweeter tobaccos now, the ones that I originallly thought tasted like pipe tobacco. Unfortunately, I have no idea what kind of tobacco(s) that might be. Any ideas?
Andria
Someone here? there? told me that the VZ and FE Blackberry were the same thing. I was thinking of getting some FE to do my own flavor test but haven't yet.
BTW- does anyone know of a good pecan flavoring?
So, I don't need any more flavors, but I've been starting to think of trying a couple of Capella, just because I've never tried anything from them. And I got a little more immediately interested when I got an email from High Desert vapes with a 20% off code (NEWYEARS) but found their hardware prices too high to make it worthwhile.
They don't make much in the flavor profile I like, which is generally not very sweet. I like some bakery types, though again, tend towards rich more than sweet. For fruits I mostly like citrus, cranberry, and pineapple, again preferring not sweet.
So I'm thinking of maybe three or four from these: Sweet Tangerine, Boston Cream Pie, Sugar Cookie, Lemon Meringue Pie, Cinnamon Coffee Cake, Hazelnut, and Sweet Mango (just because of the comments in this thread.) It's looking like Bull City Vapor has better prices than High Desert, even allowing for the sale.
None of these have any chance of being an all day vape, so by my standards I'm not much worried about whether they have diketones. Any call outs of really bad or really good from that list?
They don't make much in the flavor profile I like, which is generally not very sweet. I like some bakery types, though again, tend towards rich more than sweet. For fruits I mostly like citrus, cranberry, and pineapple, again preferring not sweet.
So I'm thinking of maybe three or four from these: Sweet Tangerine, Boston Cream Pie, Sugar Cookie, Lemon Meringue Pie, Cinnamon Coffee Cake, Hazelnut, and Sweet Mango (just because of the comments in this thread.) It's looking like Bull City Vapor has better prices than High Desert, even allowing for the sale.
None of these have any chance of being an all day vape, so by my standards I'm not much worried about whether they have diketones. Any call outs of really bad or really good from that list?
Sweet Tangerine at 15% will be spot on. I like it straight up. Haven't tried any of the others.
I can vouch for this one. It's actually outstanding, and I don't even like citrus flavors most of the time. It is completely real to the actual taste of a fresh tangerine, so much so, just use it by iteself, it's a great vape.
Recommendation is @15%, but I use about 9%. I am not a strong flavor person. STEEP this one if using 15%, I just can't do it at that strength.
I will knock Boston Cream Pie. It tasted *muddy* to me. Just nothing I would want to vape.
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I use Sweet Tangerine as low as 1-2%.
Anyway, it really is an amazing flavor though.
I have the CAP Hazelnut v2 (no diketones); it's good, kinda smoky; definitely taste the acetyl pyrazine in it. It adds a lot to my Smoky Cappucino DIY.
If you like "rich," Capella's Sweet Cream is VERY good; 2 drops in a mug of 2% milk (for hot cocoa at night) makes that 2% taste like whole milk. It's a really good addition to any fruit or pastry vape.
The Vanilla Custard v2 is horrible; it screams ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR! with a nuclear megaphone.
Andria
If you like "rich," Capella's Sweet Cream is VERY good; 2 drops in a mug of 2% milk (for hot cocoa at night) makes that 2% taste like whole milk. It's a really good addition to any fruit or pastry vape.
The Vanilla Custard v2 is horrible; it screams ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR! with a nuclear megaphone.
Andria
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