Am I the only one who doesn't think think the Provari is "all that"?

[AnsonJames]

Just answering the previous post.
Almost all single battery VV/VW devices use PWM for regulation. PWM is not an issue. The Provary uses it too. It's a very efficient and accurate way of regulating output power on inertial electrical devices.
It's nice that the Provari has a rather stable output due to its tunned output filtering, however, that's not an issue that affects vaping experience as long as the frequency is high enough because of coil thermal inertia.
I would include as plus points of the Provari its build and materials quality, service and support, accuracy, consistency and reliability. DC voltage output is nice if you want to use a multimeter to read voltages but has no real effect on vaping, unless you're comparing it to a device with obvious flaws.

I totally and unequivocally disagree with you when you say PWM has no effect on vaping as I've physically experienced a difference.

All the new (accurate) RMS devices from China are running at 33.3/4hz.
33.3HZ isn't high, it's really low - low enough to hear the modulation actually going on (hence the rattlesnake effect.) it's there and very apparent.

 

[Uncle Willie]

A Ford Focus will get you there .. a Bentley will get you there in style and last forever ..

 

[AnsonJames]

A Ford Focus will get you there .. a Bentley will get you there in style and last forever ..

Well said sir.
Didn't know they sold the Ford Focus in the States...

 

[pmos69]

I totally and unequivocally disagree with you when you say PWM has no effect on vaping as I've physically experienced a difference.

All the new (accurate) RMS devices from China are running at 33.3/4hz.
33.3HZ isn't high, it's really low - low enough to hear the modulation actually going on (hence the rattlesnake effect.) it's there and very apparent.

Don't know what exactly you are calling RMS devices but,
- The eVic outputs DC at lower voltages and a DC offset ~100Khz sinus at higher voltages.
- The lowly JoyeTech eGo Twist output is DC.

On the other hand,
- My old 808 mini batteries (fixed voltage) do PWM regulation at 50Hz.
- My old Ovale eGo-T batteries (fixed voltage) also do regulation at about 50Hz, although not with a PWM square wave.

 

[muzichead]

Big wall of text there. I didn't even link all the provari threads I've seen. But my point was they do sometimes break, they do sometimes arrive defective, and I say that because of the hype that sometimes get spread around. Another piece of hype is that no-one is ever dissatisfied with their provari. Like "I've never seen anyone regret buying a provari". But I've seen posts from people who've said they regretted buying them or weren't satisfied. I know a lot of people who buy them do like them, but there are some who aren't satisfied.

If you actually read through my thread you would've understood the point.... Problems - Provari vs., (insert desired Provari copy), I would think you, (and anyone else), like I have found the problems with copies outweigh the Provari's by a very large margin.... Regardless of what it is or how miniscule, there are still a very large margin.... The same with returns, again, EXTEMELY large margin..... I will agree with you that I have seen a post where someone was disappointed or had regretted purchasing the Provari, and the reasons were either that it was a single button device or that it didn't have VW.

Most people don't even know what VW is or how it functions to start with. The only reason they want a device with VW is because of what someone else posted and they want to follow in line with the trend.... Just look at how much money SmokTech has made with 2 different devices and 3 or 4 versions of said devices!! Talk about stealing from the blind!! I would bet if you had an experienced vaper that set up a Provari vs. (insert desired Provari copy), blindly, 99% wouldn't even notice a difference!! About an hours worth of research on the forum will prove that.... I think there is merit in the reviews that PBusardo does, and that seems to be every device he reviews there is some mention about similarities to the Provari.... Ever wonder why?

The provari is a good vv mod, but it isn't suited to everyone and some people prefer features other mods have to offer, which the provari doesn't have.

The only difference is the clones have a VW feature, (again this can be achieved easily with info from this forum), and maybe a couple extra buttons!!

 

[LeftCoastVaper]

A Ford Focus will get you there .. a Bentley will get you there in style and last forever ..

And will cost you the equivalent of Highclere Castle in purchase and maintenance fees. And if you lose it you probably don't have a backup Bentley so hello Focus. That's the beauty of the cheaper mods - you can afford more than one, and a loss isn't tragic.

 

[Slurp812]

There will always be haters. I don't try to shove my ProVari down other throats. I have one, and I also have a Cheapo AnyVape CVI. they both have accurate regulation, and both vape very well. I could get by with the AnyVape. I do prefer to take the provari out with me over the anyvape because its a little smaller, and more durable. I use the AnyVape when I'm home at my desk typing this stuff.

 

[zapped]

And will cost you the equivalent of Highclere Castle in purchase and maintenance fees. And if you lose it you probably don't have a backup Bentley so hello Focus. That's the beauty of the cheaper mods - you can afford more than one, and a loss isn't tragic.

I can afford more than one Provari but I wont need to buy another for at least 2 more years maybe longer. If youre buying throw-away mods then you are in effect throwing your money away. If you want to do that thats fine but dont pretend to be more knowledgeable or financially savvy than others because you choose price over quality. Thats the same kind of backwards thinking that contributed to the housing crash and the current financial mess were facing in this country.

As to the replies on PWM there IS a well documented difference between flat waves and those with higher and lower spikes like I explained in layman's terms earlier. Its subtle to some but its definitely there and accounts for two devices using the exact same juice delivery system and juice and giving two totally different results.

Chinese manufacturers arent including line filters because they are cutting as many corners as they can so they can to make a profit.Thats a pretty well established fact in this and many other industries they supply.

 

[speedjason86]

its probably a safe and secure choice since its reliable. be like people paying more to buy honda's and toyota's compare to cheaper domestics

 

[LeftCoastVaper]

I can afford more than one Provari but I wont need to buy another for at least 2 more years maybe longer. If youre buying throw-away mods then you are in effect throwing your money away.

It's just as easy to lose a Provari as a LT, unless they now come with GPS homing circuitry. If that happens the Focus will seem like a fairly wise purchase...

 

[zapped]

It's just as easy to lose a Provari as a LT, unless they now come with GPS homing circuitry. Is that happens the Focus seems like a fairly wise purchase...

I use a leather belt pouch to hold my Provari.It clips firmly onto my belt and only cost 10 bucks.That makes more sense than losing one......and quite frankly if youre still losing high dollar items on a routine basis as an adult you need more help than either I or these forums can provide.

 

[pmos69]

As to the replies on PWM there IS a well documented difference between flat waves and those with higher and lower spikes like I explained in layman's terms earlier. Its subtle to some but its definitely there and accounts for two devices using the exact same juice delivery system and juice and giving two totally different results.

Maybe magic electrical energy then.
Seriously, the physics involved explain why the results are the same when heating the same coil with a DC voltage or the same RMS voltage.

 

[cardenio]

Its not everyones cup of tea but those who love them swear by the reliability (something you cant see with just one use) and their excellent repair service and warranty.

As far as some of the cheaper mods out there goes, its still too early yet to see if they can reach that bar, at least on those terms, but its not looking very promising. Just do a forum search and note the number complaints on each model, Provari included.

Why buy and go through 3-4 pieces of junk over a 3 year period and have to worry about them failing on you and potentially causing you to go back to analogs when you can spend a little more,save money in the long term and have piece of mind?

Ive noticed that those who have 10-20 mods listed under their name seem to be the most vocal anti-Provari people out there and thats because it isnt made for them. They want mods to be cheap so they can have more, more, more and if thats what keeps them off analogs its all good.Personally I think thats moving into the realm of collector more than vaper but thats another conversation entirely.

On the flip side of that, I'd be willing to bet you money that those who have 3 or fewer PVs are huge fans of the Provari because they dont need anything else.

xDDD two Provari's and a Bombshell Stinger here and couldnt be happier! This isnt pokemon and i have no urge to collect them all

 

[Uncle Willie]

And will cost you the equivalent of Highclere Castle in purchase and maintenance fees. And if you lose it you probably don't have a backup Bentley so hello Focus. That's the beauty of the cheaper mods - you can afford more than one, and a loss isn't tragic.

The same can be said of many luxury goods .. and there is that "Made in the USA" thing as well .. which I personally find very attractive ..

 

[AnsonJames]

Maybe magic electrical energy then.
Seriously, the physics involved explain why the results are the same when heating the same coil with a DC voltage or the same RMS voltage.

I think your reply is a tad facetious.

At 4.5 volts on a Provari, I can vape 18mg, Mom and Pops RY4 to my hearts content - on a Vamo at the same voltage (with RMS) I start to get the Nic dizzies within twenty minutes - not just once, always.

I recall hearing of others that have experienced the same thing.

If the duty cycle is slow enough then the high peak is sticking around a lot longer than on a higher frequency (on the Vamo 33 .3hz - approx 1/3 of a second?) it's my belief that the coil is heating at a higher voltage for a longer duration thus providing more vapor.

Does this sound plausible?

Normally I wouldn't enter in to a debate with someone who obviously isn't a slouch when it comes to these matters but I've been vaping for a long time and I'm not prone to psychosomatic episodes.

 

[sawlight]

Maybe magic electrical energy then.
Seriously, the physics involved explain why the results are the same when heating the same coil with a DC voltage or the same RMS voltage.

No magic, or FM as I call it, involved. Different regulation systems, different peaks and valleys. Both do the same thing, just do it differently and if it's filtered it makes it even more noticeable. Zapped explained it, with one you are cycling between 4-6v to get 5v. With the other it's cycling 4.5-5.5v to get 5v then it's filtered to obtain the .2v you see on the scope.

As for the OP, I have a Lava Tube and a Provari mini, there isn't any comparison! The day I bought the LT I knew it was junk! The threads were loose, the battery cap barely has any threads and feels like it's ready to blow out any second and the "chrome plating" was chipping off on the way home! For $40, I got what I paid for! I can easily tell a difference between the vape on it and the Provari, the LT burns quit a bit hotter, I can't use the same voltage on both using the same atty.
Does it make my vaping experience the "heavenly nirvana" many would have you believe? No. Does it make my juice taste better? No. My carto's don't last longer, my tanks don't stay cleaner and the laser guided targeting system isn't that effective if the truth be told. So no, it's not the end all beat all perfect for everyone device. In fact there are a couple minor things that I don't really like about it! I wish the fire button was placed higher and I wish the battery cap had more grip to it. I find it hard with my large fingers to take it off at times.
BUT,
It is consistent, as everyone says, I've hit it and could tell it wasn't right and before I could say "What the Hell" I finally looked down to see the light flashing rapidly telling me the battery was dead. The menu system isn't nearly as complicated as people would have you believe, I'm an idiot most days and had it mastered in about 20min, yes, it's that easy! It just works! And works! If it doesn't, which it has failed to a couple of times, come to find out it was something I had done wrong! Atty wasn't screwed on tight, threads were dirty etc. Problems you have with all vaping equipment. Then the main reason I bought it after owning an LT, it's built like a tank! I don't cringe when I drop it. I don't worry using it around a welder, I don't concern myself if it falls out of my pocket on the skid steer. Now if I were to loose it, I'd be crushed, but every time that LT hit the floor I was certain it would be the last time it worked!

So is it the best? I don't know, it's the best built and that's what I wanted and needed, so it's the best for my needs. Kiwi seems to really like vw, so it's not the best for her. Some people prefer a bottom feeder, so it's not the best for them. Some people love the simplistic elegance of a mechanical, so it's not the best for them.
Thinking back to the Focus and Bently comparison, neither would work for me, I need to be able to pull a trailer and equipment when needed, I've got to have a truck!

 

[Ansah]

It's just as easy to lose a Provari as a LT, unless they now come with GPS homing circuitry. If that happens the Focus will seem like a fairly wise purchase...

It's just as easy to lose a $50 dollar bill as it is to lose a $1. Does this mean it doesn't matter to you if you get proper change back from your $50?

 

[LeftCoastVaper]

It's just as easy to lose a $50 dollar bill as it is to lose a $1. Does this mean it doesn't matter to you if you get proper change back from your $50?

No, it means that you shouldn't carry $50 bills if you think you might lose them, much less $179 + accessories bills...

 

[pmos69]

I think your reply is a tad facetious.

Well, it was meant to be humorous, yes, but I've been known to fail miserably at that :/
...especially in a foreign language.

At 4.5 volts on a Provari, I can vape 18mg, Mom and Pops RY4 to my hearts content - on a Vamo at the same voltage (with RMS) I start to get the Nic dizzies within twenty minutes - not just once, always.

I recall hearing of others that have experienced the same thing.

Can't comment much on that, besides the fact that the effect can have other causes.
Mid-air EDIT: Wasn't it the Vamo that had a bug that blew up atty coils when set a certain (not very high) power output? Perhaps it has other issues...
I don't have a Vamo myself.

If the duty cycle is slow enough then the high peak is sticking around a lot longer than on a higher frequency (on the Vamo 33 .3hz - approx 1/3 of a second?) it's my belief that the coil is heating at a higher voltage for a longer duration thus providing more vapor.

Does this sound plausible?

Not much, sorry.
33.3Hz is actually 33.3 cycles per second -> a cycle of on+off lasts only 3 hundredths of a second.
The point about the duty cycle itself is also "a bit off". As the Duty cycle approaches 100%, the RMS voltage approaches the peak voltage or the same DC voltage.
If the the duty cycle is very low, the peak voltage, although higher than the RMS or DC voltage, is applied for such a short time that it can't have negative effects by itself.
In the end, for the same Vrms=Vdc, even for a single cycle (3 hundredths of a second in the case you mention), the exact same amount of energy will have been dissipated by the coil as heat. There's no other way for the energy to go.

Normally I wouldn't enter in to a debate with someone who obviously isn't a slouch when it comes to these matters but I've been vaping for a long time and I'm not prone to psychosomatic episodes.

Aren't we all? We're nicotine addicts after all. Our minds are used to being fooled.
Anyway, if we can't discuss this in a discussion forum about e-cigs, what would be the point?
The only problem is the off-topic drift.

 

[AnsonJames]

It's definitely a different Vape to the Provari whatever the cause is, it's harsher.

We didn't stray too far off topic imo!

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