And another one

[Lessifer]

Who are these Vapers? And how are they Asking for Something?

Those who insist that the government needs to step in to help safeguard unaware vapers. They may not realize that removing the choice is the way that the government will protect vapers, but at this stage in the game, they should.

I don't like the idea of regulation.

I just wish all vendors would post/provide battery warnings.
Written in very large letters with a skull and crossbones.


And more importantly, not sell products without informing customers of the risks.

My problem is, and always has been, with the idea that the dangers are common sense.
And the idea that all of this is down to user error.

Because it isn't common sense, and therefore it is NOT user error.

Battery safety is not common knowledge, I wish it were more common, vendors making information available would help.

I still disagree with the idea that because someone is ignorant of the fact that combination A+B results in a big bang, it is not their error.

Like if someone mixes bleach and ammonia to "create" their own cleaner, and then dies from the toxic fumes, that was user error.

 

[zoiDman]

Those who insist that the government needs to step in to help safeguard unaware vapers. They may not realize that removing the choice is the way that the government will protect vapers, but at this stage in the game, they should.

...

OK. I'm just Not seeing a lot of Vapers Insisting that the Government needs to step in and Safeguard unaware vapers.

 

[Kent C]

And more importantly, not sell products without informing customers of the risks.

So... Apple and Samsung for cell phones, all people who sell flashlights, toys, etc. etc. should tell all the problems that could happen using batteries or they're being 'irresponsible'?

My problem is, and always has been, with the idea that the dangers are common sense.
And the idea that all of this is down to user error.

Because it isn't common sense, and therefore it is NOT user error.

It's not that it is, or isn't, common sense. It's that a person is responsible for what they buy and use. Whether they are responsible, or not, is another question. No one else could be responsible, since they wouldn't have control of the use of the product, once it is sold.

 

[defdock]

People have been using batteries for decades without fear or knowledge.

Why don't the flashlight people burn up their faces?
Why don't the RC people burn up their faces?

This whole vaping thing is very different from anything else that's come before it.
And it often manifests a problem when right under your face.

Why do so few cell phone people burn up their faces?
Maybe that's the question, and perhaps somewhere in the answer is our solution.

Beleive it or not, there are quite alot of flashlight accidents frequent - mainly from the lithium battery type version. Don't burn up their face cause it's too busy burning their hands. As far as news coverage, flashlights have ben out for ages and the info is quite old/common which doesn't make for a catch news headline.

Rc people face the same issues, but not burning themselfs cause they don't drive their Rc cars on their bodies, yet lots of house fires from improper charging or misuse of the powerfull lithium batteries.
Same thing goes with news coverage for that, info is so old/common that it don't make for a good news headline.

Same for phones, but you don't see that happen to often now either seeing as that was regulated years ago, hence the previous comment about having the cells/packs individually chipped.

 

[DC2]

Beleive it or not, there are quite alot of flashlight accidents frequent - mainly from the lithium battery type version. Don't burn up their face cause it's too busy burning their hands.

Hence my point about vaping being a very different application.

Rc people face the same issues, but not burning themselfs cause they don't drive their Rc cars on their bodies, yet lots of house fires from improper charging or misuse of the powerfull lithium batteries.

Hence my point about vaping being a very different application.

Same for phones, but you don't see that happen to often now either seeing as that was regulated years ago, hence the previous comment about having the cells/packs individually chipped.

That was what I was alluding to when I said to find the solution there.
I don't know much about that, but your post was helpful.

 

[Lessifer]

OK. I'm just Not seeing a lot of Vapers Insisting that the Government needs to step in and Safeguard unaware vapers.

They may not be saying it in those words, but I often see things like "Someone needs to do Something about this."

Just who do you think that Someone is, and what do you think that Something will be?

 

[Kent C]

They may not be saying it in those words, but I often see things like "Someone needs to do Something about this."

Just who do you think that Someone is, and what do you think that Something will be?

Exactly right. And that's where gov't gets their support and many times relies on it. And those who would attempt to deny it are the worst type. I'd rather someone have principles and stand for them.

 

[defdock]

Hence my point about vaping being a very different application.

Hence my point about vaping being a very different application.

That was what I was alluding to when I said to find the solution there.
I don't know much about that, but your post was helpful.

Different in aspect of what the battery is used for, but still no different in the fact it's the same type of battery. The consumer - the person using said battery for whatever application, cannot say they have never heard of or seen personaly these types of batteries "misused" - think cars. The info is literally so common people push it to the back of their memory.

Common aa package

 

[DC2]

The consumer - the person using said battery for whatever application, cannot say they have never heard of or seen personaly these types of batteries "misused" - think cars. The info is literally so common people push it to the back of their memory.

I am unable to agree with your post.
And when you say "think cars" I don't even know what you're referring to.

 

[zoiDman]

They may not be saying it in those words, but I often see things like "Someone needs to do Something about this."

Just who do you think that Someone is, and what do you think that Something will be?

If they're not Say'n things in specific terms, perhaps they are Not All implying that it should be done by the Government?

I know Many who believe that OEM's should be Doing More in some areas. And I know Many that believe that Sellers could play a Larger Role in things also.

 

[defdock]

At this point, the consumer is first to blame. But I honestly do think it should be regulated for "battery makers" to label their products correctly, if at all. - just take note of Sony vtc5s they are made/sold for specific applications ONLY, but those with knowledge take them apart/out devices and use them/give them away without the "correct" warning labeling or a label of any sort of specifications, look at ebay. - from here again it is down to the consumers responsibility to know what they are buying and for what.

 

[DC2]

...from here again it is down to the consumers responsibility to know what they are buying and for what.

Whenever something can be reasonably assumed to be potentially dangerous...

My disagreement comes from the fact that I do not believe that to be the case for batteries.
You can't know you need to learn/understand something if you don't realize you need to.

I know many on this forum that think the dangers from batteries are common sense.
I can only assume they have a background in areas that make them think that.

Again, my wife doesn't know what a short circuit is.
But that warning on the battery itself should at least give her pause.

EDIT: But seriously, what were you referring to when you said "think cars"
EDIT: I'm genuinely curious about that
EDIT:

 

[defdock]

I am unable to agree with your post.
And when you say "think cars" I don't even know what you're referring to.

Because the info is so common it's thrown into the back of your knowledge.

Lots less probless over the decades since they started adding "protection". Car fuses, I know everyone has had to replace atleast one. If those fuses were not there to burn out the short circuit from whatever happened, that short would in turn hit the car battery instead, causing your full failure/explosion/whatever.

 

[Kent C]

Different in aspect of what the battery is used for, but still no different in the fact it's the same type of battery. The consumer - the person using said battery for whatever application, cannot say they have never heard of or seen personaly these types of batteries "misused" - think cars. The info is literally so common people push it to the back of their memory.

And it isn't just rechargeables. One of the first explosions was a guy who recharged a not rechargeable battery and put it in a Chuck mod. First firing, it exploded. No one knew what happened but the guy had a picture of the battery and I found it through google that it was a regular non-rechargeable battery. Oh!!! That was part of the beginning where all mods had vents. A one or two good vendors (Super-T) already had them.

 

[DC2]

This is a great discussion.
Too bad it's not taking place in the General forum.

 

[Kent C]

This is a great discussion.
Too bad it's not taking place in the General forum.

Well, that's another thing. If someone really 'cares' about others using ecigs - the first thing they should do is send them to ECF. It's where we learned and it's paid off for the most part. Most kids - well teens - will go somewhere - reddit, here, other forums to learn about it. Older people trying to get off cigs - not so much but more than ever before are also using social media.

I'm going to guess that at least 70% (a guess) of those who had mods explode knew of other incidents but never read deep enough to find out what happened. Part of that is because of media - where they only want to report the 'tragedy' - "if it bleeds, it leads" and part of it is that the media themselves are not informed and for the most part they have the same mindset as ANTZ.

 

[Lessifer]

If they're not Say'n things in specific terms, perhaps they are Not All implying that it should be done by the Government?

I know Many who believe that OEM's should be Doing More in some areas. And I know Many that believe that Sellers could play a Larger Role in things also.

I would say there are very few, if any, who consciously want the government to step it.

However, you're a smart guy, you know what happens when "It would be great if vendors..." turns into "Vendors should..." and then becomes "Vendors should be required to..."

I have no doubt that some people do not recognize that asking that vendors be required to do X, means that the government would have to step in and write a regulation requiring vendors to do X.

 

[skoony]

Referring to a earlier post in this thread from me most of these accidents
involve young men at least 30 years or younger.More closer to their 20's.
Has anyone actually tried to sit man of that age down and explain all the
safety considerations he must be aware of before making a purchase
of just about anything he might want. Here in Minnesota if you're under the
age of 18 you're required to take a safety course to ride an ATV on road
or off.
The only thing legally that could be done is to require certain training before
one buy's certain items. Aside from minors they haven't been able to do that
with guns yet unless it involves concealed carry. Not even driving. If you're
old enough only passing the test is required. Formal training is not.
Regards
Mike

 

[zoiDman]

I would say there are very few, if any, who consciously want the government to step it.

However, you're a smart guy, you know what happens when "It would be great if vendors..." turns into "Vendors should..." and then becomes "Vendors should be required to..."

I have no doubt that some people do not recognize that asking that vendors be required to do X, means that the government would have to step in and write a regulation requiring vendors to do X.

Like I said, I'm just not seeing a very large push by Vapers for Anybody to do Anything. Be it Vendors or the Government. And or be it Voluntary or by Regulation respectively.

And Yes. I do know what happens when "Great" turns into "Should" turns into "Be Required". But the progression from "Great" to "Should" to "Be Required" doesn't always happen. In Fact, it Seldom does.

Take something like Diketones. Jeeze... There for while you Couldn't go 10 Threads without tripping over a Diketone Thread. Every page of the New Posts page had one. Where are they all Now?

Or the 5 Pawns Lawsuit. Man, that was a Barn Burner. Guess the Barn got Burned Out.

Or the NJ Vapo Expo. What a Train Wreck. Last I heard the Coordinators were going to Sue everyone on the New Jersey Payroll. What ever happened with that?

And the List goes On and On and On.

We're kinda like the News in a Lot of Ways. We pick up what is Current, Run Hot and Heavy with it, and then Someone New comes along and we move on to that.

 

[Lessifer]

Like I said, I'm just not seeing a very large push by Vapers for Anybody to do Anything. Be it Vendors or the Government. And or be it Voluntary or by Regulation respectively.

And Yes. I do know what happens when "Great" turns into "Should" turns into "Be Required". But the progression from "Great" to "Should" to "Be Required" doesn't always happen. In Fact, it Seldom does.

Take something like Diketones. Jeeze... There for while you Couldn't go 10 Threads without tripping over a Diketone Thread. Every page of the New Posts page had one. Where are they all Now?

Or the 5 Pawns Lawsuit. Man, that was a Barn Burner. Guess the Barn got Burned Out.

Or the NJ Vapo Expo. What a Train Wreck. Last I heard the Coordinators were going to Sue everyone on the New Jersey Payroll. What ever happened with that?

And the List goes On and On and On.

We're kinda like the News in a Lot of Ways. We pick up what is Current, Run Hot and Heavy with it, and then Someone New comes along and we move on to that.

You can almost always see examples of "great" "should" and "required" in all of the thread types that you mentioned. There are definitely more greats, fewer shoulds, and even less requireds, but they're all almost always there. Maybe people are learning to temper their reactions. Maybe people are learning that actions should be fully thought out to their consequences. Perhaps it is a product of many of our concerns being turned against us.

I can only hope that vapers are becoming more self aware.