And another one

[Kent C]

Yes in a theoretical ultra-libertarian society ( where everyone acts rationally ) perhaps, but in the real world where most of us live ?

We're already in the socialist/mixed economy utopia and these things happen daily with many products, regulated by dozens of 'caring regulatory agencies' of the gov't. People would act more rationally if they didn't think gov't had their backs - which they don't - that should be obvious to anyone who isn't a full blown ideological Marxist. Some people exist in the real world, but they don't "live" in it - they live in their brainwashing.

edit: we had been discussing the 'mechanics' of the situation and yes, for those who are aware, some of the views of the "mechanics" have certain politics behind them but up until your post, politics were not directly being mentioned and esp. not with the sarcasm ("where everyone acts rationally") involved. You took it there. Without, btw, responding to the answers to your open ended questions - all the statements you end with a question mark - where no answer is an answer because there are none from your viewpoint - other than making business responsible through gov't force and coercion, evidently.

And when you go there - politics - in that manner, expect to get it back. Even if you "predict" it as you did earlier. I could have made the same prediction, but didn't.

 

[defdock]

Do we know this ?

If his father has the ability to say that his son doesn't smoke tobacco, he does see his son using an ecig and it's becoming a trend among teens, implies he's keeping an open eye "watching" but not taking action as a parent.

When he first notice his son using an ecig, why not take it away? Problem averted.

The problem is, the father knew of it, and considered it safe enough to for his son to use UNTILL this "something" happened.

Double standards are becoming a huge concern with parents these days.

 

[Mazinny]

never mind, already posted.

 

[Kent C]

Not sure if this one has been reported :
New Hampshire man burned when vaporizer battery explodes

Don't know if these accidents are becoming more common, or if they are being reported more often. I would have thought that with regulated mods becoming more and more powerful and capable of firing low resistance atomizers, there would be fewer incidents like these.

Zoidman linked it above:

And another one

 

[Mazinny]

edit: we had been discussing the 'mechanics' of the situation and yes, for those who are aware, some of the views of the "mechanics" have certain politics behind them but up until your post, politics were not directly being mentioned and esp. not with the sarcasm ("where everyone acts rationally") involved. You took it there. Without, btw, responding to the answers to your open ended questions - all the statements you end with a question mark - where no answer is an answer because there are none from your viewpoint - other than making business responsible through gov't force and coercion, evidently.

And when you go there - politics - in that manner, expect to get it back. Even if you "predict" it as you did earlier. I could have made the same prediction, but didn't.

The reason i ask questions, is because i don't pretend to have all the answers. If you think i am trying to strike attitudes, you are mistaken, but nothing i write will change your mind.

Believe it or not i do lean libertarian on some issues ( a little less so, since following this sub-forum ), and i do believe that we are over-regulated. But i am not going to pretend that some regulations have not improved safety either.

As far as bringing politics into this sub-forum, my posting history is available for all to review ( as is yours ).

 

[Lessifer]

Definitely too much of a simplification.

It is obvious that burning things can burn down other things.
It is not obvious to most people that batteries can be very dangerous.

And yet it still happens, I believe with more frequency than these so called vape related incidents. I do agree that someone is more likely to recognize that fire is dangerous than a battery.

This next part is not directly aimed at you, but is an open question:
What type of regulation would prevent or minimize occurrences of people misusing batteries? Other than a total ban on loose batteries?

 

[Kent C]

As far as bringing politics into this sub-forum, my posting history is available for all to review ( as is yours ).

That's right and I would encourage people to look at mine and see who it is who brings up politics first. But I do respond to those who throw out sarcastic and hyperbolic remarks as yours above 'ultra blah blah' and making the sarcastic remark about rationality. And nothing I write will change your mind - ditto. As for what you likely think as the 'Socratic method' questions - they only show your own politics without you stating them outright. And it isn't that you don't think you have the answers. Humility is an overrated "virtue".

And yes, we agree on many things as indicated (or indicated by the lack of further questions) on the thread discussing the Pierce study and the follow up. I quite enjoyed that and was happy to be pushed to find more thorough information on how there were no incidents of popcorn lung in cigarette smokers. And that wasn't the only place we agree.

 

[defdock]

What type of regulation would prevent or minimize occurrences of people misusing batteries? Other than a total ban on loose batteries?

Not sure exactly how to go about it, but if enough laptop batteries and cellphone batteries failing can cause them to be regulated to also have a chip added to the "removeable/swappable" battery pack, why not other "newly common" devices that also use these dangerous lithium batteries?

Just looking over electronics in my house that use batteries - those that use common aa/aaa/9v don't have chips, but EVERY SINGLE ITEM with a lithium battery pack/cell has a chip board soldered directly to the battery.

 

[Kent C]

What type of regulation would prevent or minimize occurrences of people misusing batteries?

Again, no regulation would do that and any attempt would be to take products away from millions of consumers in order to stop (and it wouldn't either - they'd find another way) someone from harming themselves.

The answer is in the minds of creative people and entrepreneurs like Evolv and others to find a way to make batteries - temperature controlled or something similar. But that won't happen if the deeming goes as written - all new innovations (and even perhaps all vaping) will come to a complete halt. The only way to stop that is through change in politics and the musings of some who think they can save every life, (or want people to think they care about that), who begin the process toward regulation.

 

[zoiDman]

...

This next part is not directly aimed at you, but is an open question:
What type of regulation would prevent or minimize occurrences of people misusing batteries? Other than a total ban on loose batteries?

Is it the Batteries that are the Problem in Most Cases? Or is it More what the Batteries are going into that deserves Scrutiny?

 

[Lessifer]

Yes in a theoretical ultra-libertarian society ( where everyone acts rationally ) perhaps, but in the real world where most of us live ?

In the society that we live in, the parent is ethically and legally responsible for the welfare and actions of the child, until that child becomes a legal adult. It's part of being a parent.

To pose another question, name another industry where the vendor is responsible for ensuring that the consumer has adequate knowledge. Sure some things require a license, but that's another agency, not the vendor.

 

[skoony]

A 16 year old kid walks into B&M.
Kid:"Give this,this and,that."
Clerk:"Ok,anything else you need,perhaps a battery?"
Kid:"Yes a battery too."
Clerk:"Very well. You have some very advanced stuff here do you want me to go over some of the basics with you?"
Kid:"No need my bud´s have the same stuff and already showed me. I´m cool."
Clerk:"Ok,thank you that will be (insert large dollar amount here.)."
Kid:"You're welcome. See you later."
Kid leaves the store.
The End.

 

[Kent C]

Is it the Batteries that are the Problem in Most Cases? Or is it More what the Batteries are going into that deserves Scrutiny?

What do you think?

 

[zoiDman]

What do you think?

I think that the Coming Regulations are going to make many of these Discussions Moot.

 

[Kent C]

I think that the Coming Regulations are going to make many of these Discussions Moot.

Me too, but what do you think about what you ask?

 

[Mazinny]

That's right and I would encourage people to look at mine and see who it is who brings up politics first. But I do respond to those who throw out sarcastic and hyperbolic remarks as yours above 'ultra blah blah' and making the sarcastic remark about rationality. And nothing I write will change your mind - ditto. As for what you likely think as the 'Socratic method' questions - they only show your own politics without you stating them outright. And it isn't that you don't think you have the answers. Humility is an overrated "virtue".

Obviously you are free to infer whatever you want, and determine when you think i am being sarcastic etc ...

Just as i am free to consider you one of the most political, if not the most political member whose posts i have read. Sometimes i think you are more interested in promoting your political views, than you are in vaping tbh. And that would be fine in a political forum, but in a vaping forum ? Percentage of political posts compared to vape posts, i mean. I actually enjoy reading some of your posts btw, but they are what they are.

 

[zoiDman]

Me too, but what do you think about what you ask?

How is "Misusing Batteries" being defined in the Context of Lessifer's question?

 

[Lessifer]

Not sure exactly how to go about it, but if enough laptop batteries and cellphone batteries failing can cause them to be regulated to also have a chip added to the "removeable/swappable" battery pack, why not other "newly common" devices that also use these dangerous lithium batteries?

Just looking over electronics in my house that use batteries - those that use common aa/aaa/9v don't have chips, but EVERY SINGLE ITEM with a lithium battery pack/cell has a chip board soldered directly to the battery.

I'm curious if that is a regulation or an industry standard.

Is it the Batteries that are the Problem in Most Cases? Or is it More what the Batteries are going into that deserves Scrutiny?

using the wrong mod/atomizer combo would qualify as misusing the battery, to me.

 

[Kent C]

Obviously you are free to infer whatever you want, and determine when you think i am being sarcastic etc ...

Just as i am free to consider you one of the most political, if not the most political member whose posts i have read. Percentage of political posts compared to vape posts, i mean. I actually enjoy reading some of your posts btw, but they are what they are.

I find your posts stimulating and you would be wrong about the percentage of political posts vs. vape posts, even most recently - but in this forum - more politics/media focus - yes. I'd say my overall percentage would be around 10% in these forums/shortened tour Outside vs. 70% new member/general/carto/eGo types/itty bitty/others having to do with hardware and eliquid, and 20% social - funy pics, j0kers, JaG's beach, kent's thread in vets. But I've been at it for going on 7 years. :- )

 

[zoiDman]

I'm curious if that is a regulation or an industry standard.
using the wrong mod/atomizer combo would qualify as misusing the battery, to me.

Sure. And by the Same Token, one could say that an Atomizer Build was Too Low. So it was a Misuse of the Atomizer for a given Battery.

I sense a Chicken and the Egg type thing. LOL.