Anti B&M

[Maurice Pudlo]

Wow, commercial property in eastern Ohio must be a lot more expensive than out here in San Diego, by an order of magnitude. Suburban spots go from 90 cents to $1.50 per square foot, you could have an oceanfront spot (which is where my B&M is located) for probably $2.25. If people are really paying $70,000/mo. to rent a 1,000 sf shop, I need to start buying up strip malls in your 'hood like they're going out of style!

Here in Louisville Kentucky you'll see a range from $10 to $15 per square foot per year depending on location and newness of the space/building.

The San Diego per square foot per year rate is in the $10.80 to $18.00 range, or $0.90 to $1.50 per month per square foot.

Plus in Cali minimum wage is $10.00 and hour vs. our $7.25, and electric rates are about 500% of ours here in little old Kentucky.

Cost of doing business is not cheap, and I like to think at the very minimum I am helping employ a person or two buy frequenting the local B&M (what does that even stand for by the way?). Similarly I buy stuff at the little mom and pop hardware store around the corner, the one of a kind bakery is where I get bread, etc.

Sometimes I buy online, when I can't get what I want local. But I do know that if my money is floating around closer to me, the more likely some of it will land right back in my hands later on.

I'm sure wherever you work, there is an option for the customers to go elsewhere or do it themselves, then what?

We are really in a global all access world, so you are free to purchase from just about anyone anywhere, but it is important to at least consider how this effects your local economy and thus you.

Maurice

 

[revco]

B&M's provide a valuable service. Who's going to bail you out if the post jacks up your juice order and it goes missing for a week plus? What if your gear gets stolen and just like that, you're back to square zero? You going to smoke analogs while you wait for gear to ship? I mean, I agree that they tend to be way overpriced...but that's the price of convenience and immediacy. Running a B&M isn't cheap and it takes a lot of $20 markups to pay the bills.

The truth is, at some point after you buy something, you won't even remember what you paid for it.

 

[tj99959]

Geez there are more vape shops than there are smoke shops where I live, and you would have to buy direct from China to save any money. So the only time I shop online is when none of the B&M's have what I want. I would much rather see the item I'm buying up close & personal before I shell out the cash.

 

[PhxMike]

Online vendors can be just as hit and miss as B & M. Still prefer to buy my juice from B & M and browse new items but coils, tanks, etc. I'll get from online. Haven't bought a mod online but will once I decide what new mod I want.

 

[DomGuy]

I don't mind paying a little extra at the B&M's. My regular is Henley, for you fellow NYC vapers, but Beyond Vape opened up on St. Marks, and I've been there a couple times. Both places, the people there are extremely knowledgeable and friendly, along with all the other patrons there. I'll walk into Henley, sit down and talk to the strangers next to me, you can't get that online!

The second reason I try to take my business to B&Ms is that NYC's anti-vape laws are becoming more and more totalitarian. When a lot of these stores stay open and more pop up, it makes a statement to NY legislators.

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

You have to keep in mind that there's never going to be a "cheap" B&M that can honestly compete dollar for dollar with an online shop that has no storefront and can use a backroom for inventory (in most cases). B&M's have too many costs, i.e. overhead, to be able to reduce their profit margins to that of what you'll find online (specifically if you compare to FastTech - it's not going to happen).

If it's a B&M with only a single store, or even a few stores, I wouldn't expect them to deal with a manufacturer direct, so their only option is wholesale which is marked up to give the wholesaler a profit margin as well. Higher cost to them means higher cost to you. It's the cost of convenience. Much like how you can find a better deal on a flat panel, wall-mounted LCD TV online and you'll pay more in the store for it. You want it now? You pay for it.

As for B&M pricing, I understand the have to make a living and pay employees, but some do tend to go overboard on their pricing, IMO. I walk in expecting to pay more, but the last B&M I walked into wanted $100 for an SVD (not the kit, just the mod - nothing extra with it - no juice bundled - no battery added), so I walked back out. That's over a 30% markup, and even more so if they are in fact getting them from FastTech. That's just one bad example.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

I don't mind paying a little extra at the B&M's. My regular is Henley, for you fellow NYC vapers, but Beyond Vape opened up on St. Marks, and I've been there a couple times. Both places, the people there are extremely knowledgeable and friendly, along with all the other patrons there. I'll walk into Henley, sit down and talk to the strangers next to me, you can't get that online!

The second reason I try to take my business to B&Ms is that NYC's anti-vape laws are becoming more and more totalitarian. When a lot of these stores stay open and more pop up, it makes a statement to NY legislators.

Fellow NYC vaper here! I've been to both. I find Beyond Vape to have better pricing, but Henley's has been holding rebuilding classes that I hope to attend one day. Also, Darryl from the Walking Dead was spotted at Henley's.

 

[djsvapour]

We have 3 B&M shops.

One of them provides some liquid and hardware to me.

The other two are a joke. One of them charges £70 for a starter kit, the other is a "big name" store that I try to avoid.

The "rip-off" store will not last another few months, not with the arrival of the other 2.

 

[bussdriver]

The B&M's I like and trust the most are the ones that take the time to make a presence at local vape meets. Seems like they are much more in touch with the vapers and their wants/likes. They are aware that those who show up for the vape meets are for the most part, knowledgeable vapers. Most of the hardcore vapers are aware of online bargains/clones/diy, and it seems that when making a purchase going to my local meet and seeing/buying there works out best.

In short, support your local vendor who takes the time to support you.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

Let's not get too critical of head shops either. Until recently, they were the only brick and mortar choices here in NYC. There's one in particular in Staten Island (no vape exclusive shops here) where the selection is great. The owner is a vaping enthusiast who knows his stuff. I've seen him spend over 20 minutes with a customer explaining ecig products and how to work them. I mentioned a lack of carto tanks one week, and the next week he was carrying them. Thanked me for showing him mine, and told me they were a great option for the customers that were reluctant to rebuild but wanted better then clearos. I try and get there once per pay period just to show support. While they are a head shop, mostly I see other vapers there checking out the ecigs then anything else, and all the employees are vaping on mech mods and rebuildables. While they HAVE tried pushing rebuilding on me, they weren't a holes about it, and are perfectly willing to talk about the beginners stuff and clearos and take the time with newbies.

 

[WileECoyote]

I like B&M's for that fact you can taste the juice and also you know you have someone there to talk vape with.

 

[Bramble]

One of the great things about the B&Ms (at least here) is a sense of community.

I have to tell you guys, I went to the Utah Vapers Assn. Monthly meetup last night. First time I had gone to one. They all spoiled me so hard. I sat at the bar next to a guy who showed me how to re-build coils. On the other side of me was a couple who have an eJuice/online biz. I got caught up on all the horrible proposed laws and had some great discussions about all those current events.

I met folks who run the local B&Ms and I can't say enough nice things about them. Between the raffle and extreme generosity of the people I met (they were just like "Oh here you can have this"), I came home with 7 bottles of eJuice and an eGo starter kit. I enjoy this community and want to see it thrive by helping to support it.

I mean... LOOK AT THIS!! lol

 

[edyle]

Appreciate what you have; there's no vape shops in my whole COUNTRY.

 

[liquidator]

Online is like waiting for Santa Claus, B&M is like being mugged

 

[MetalMaster75]

Every business is different. Obviously the B&Ms will have higher prices then online stores. It's called overhead. And, yes, one will have to add the local/state taxes to a purchase. But in most cases you get good face-to-face customer service and get to try things out before buying. Returns or exchanges on hardware under warranty is easy.
I highly recommend a local B&M store: 777 (triple seven) in Burbank, CA. One day I just walked in, got educated, tried different stuff, got my starter kit, etc. I've been smoke free since that day.

 

[2coils]

There is a place in the industry for both. Ordering online gives us access to awesome liquids from all over the world. I love trying them all. A B&M saves you from making bad liquid purchases. I have close to 100 bottles of liquid from online orders that I will probably never vape for various reasons. A GOOD B&M tries to balance their cost of overhead versus online competition. Yes they have to charge more, as long as its not absurdly marked up im fine with that. Its also nice to experience the atmosphere of a good vape shop. There are definitely pros and cons to both.

 

[PdoubleU]

we are up to 4 b&m shops here in Stockton, ca, Vape-division and three just the tips locations... They all sell similar equipment, all more expensive than what you'd pay online. They have large juice bars and pretty decent prices on juice, and some exclusive flavors/brands. But they will also adjust nicotine levels in the juices for free. They will also do mods right in the store!
The best part is I can vape in the store and no one asks a million questions, like when I go on the patio to vape at the bar.

 

[edyle]

There is a place in the industry for both. Ordering online gives us access to awesome liquids from all over the world. I love trying them all. A B&M saves you from making bad liquid purchases. I have close to 100 bottles of liquid from online orders that I will probably never vape for various reasons. A GOOD B&M tries to balance their cost of overhead versus online competition. Yes they have to charge more, as long as its not absurdly marked up im fine with that. Its also nice to experience the atmosphere of a good vape shop. There are definitely pros and cons to both.

That's exactly it; just as you would go to one type of store for certain things and another place for other stuff which you could have got at the first store.

A local vape shop is a good place for getting custom eliquids if they do that; also good place for a smoker trying to quit smoking to at least make a start. For an experienced vaper, it might be a convenient place to pick up adapters, replacement heads, wick and wire, DIY stuff; in a jam it might be the place you go to to get an eGo battery in an emergency or to help a friend get started.

 

[Myk]

I don't know your locals to know if what they charge is unreasonable or not but you must realize that if your attitude is cheaper wins you will buy everything on the internet.
It does cost more overhead to run a B&M and that has to be made up somehow.

My local is in line with most online stores and of course more than Fasttech but not as much more as I've heard some being.
I will pay a fair markup for the convenience of having it now and the security in case any internet sales bans happen.

Wow, commercial property in eastern Ohio must be a lot more expensive than out here in San Diego, by an order of magnitude. Suburban spots go from 90 cents to $1.50 per square foot, you could have an oceanfront spot (which is where my B&M is located) for probably $2.25. If people are really paying $70,000/mo. to rent a 1,000 sf shop, I need to start buying up strip malls in your 'hood like they're going out of style!

Wow
The problem is other people from CA already have your idea. I thought the prices were because they were out of touch with midwestern cost of living and wages.
It's really not affordable to rent good business space around here, and we have a bunch of empty strip malls to prove it.

 

[sdennislee]

I tend to make most of my purchases online. I look for free shipping if I can find it sometimes I have to hold off ordering until I need enough stuff to qualify for free shipping.

In Ohio I have been pleased with the prices at Alt Smoke in Columbus and Cincinnati (Eastgate). Groove-E-Juice in Kent, OH for juices.