Appearance can be deceiving

[Javichu]

Tobacco companies aren't the villains. They've invested in e-cigarettes; the company that makes Marlboro is JUUL's largest shareholder, for example.

The real culprit is big pharma. They make a lot of money from smoking cessation products. It's a very profitable business model: Sell folks nicotine gum, then sell the 90% who go back to smoking patches, then sell the 85% who go back to smoking a prescription drug. From all the statistics i've seen, vaping is the most effective way to stop or reduce cigarette smoking. Big tobacco wants in on it; big pharma wants it gone.

If the pharmaceuticals had brains & decency, they'd put money into vaping instead of into politicians pockets trying to destroy it. They could buy up e-liquid manufacturing facilities and small companies in the business for what to them is a pittance.

Maybe in your country,here in Spain you hardly see any products in the pharmacy to quit smoking.
Regular peasant healthcare doesn't cover any of the products needed to quit,actually more expensive to quit smoking than it is to smoke.

And i know Big tobacco wants in on it,their latest attempts have failed badly,''heat not burn'' hehe yeah that is a doozy.

Maybe they are investing in e-cigarettes,haven't looked into the info on what are the investments of big tobacco companies but one thing for sure they know their time is running out.

Won't be in an immediate future but it will happen so ''if'' they investing in e-cigarettes then that is a clear example of them trying to jump ship before it goes down.

So in my country blaming big pharma isn't really the truth,if they start taxing vape products in Spain (will probably just be nicotine) the only reason for that is revenue,they have to make up for the loss of taxation they have on cigarettes....
they could give a damn about their citizens health as long as they make some money.

 

[stols001]

I think whatever happens the vaping heyday has come and gone. What remains will be heavily regulated and taxed, yes.

IDK if the smoking cessation market makes a ton of money. Yes, their products are expensive but they aren't really designed for maintenance. Although I did know a woman once, who had quit for many years. She bought a box of nicotine gum one fateful day because she was stressed, and she was still chewing it like 6 years later?

Snus is really where it's at for 1-1 mimicry of a cigarette and its also a good deal SAFER. Course, you gotta deal with the inhale issue. But the country that invented it, they sell it pretty cheaply indeed. The plethora of products available is quite amazing. I think the majority of folks (Sweden was it?) were able to quit smoking their rates of smokers are crazy low.

But they heavily promoted it, etc . They also (unless there is an in country tax) don't tax the hell out of it as far as I know.

I'm just happy with vaping I am in before the wire etc.

Anna

 

[tj99959]

As previously stated by another, most of the "older" crowds don't understand vaping to the core.

Not quite sure what "older crowds" you have in mind.
But then again, I'm only seventy eight, so I'm sure glad I have no need to "understand vaping to the core."

 

[Alex Ferrara]

Wow that was a super serious response. LOL. Maybe the Queen of England? She's like very Dignified not to mention what 134 years old now? We need her seal of approval upon our vapes.

As far as the US, I have no idea. Credible science is thin on the ground and there is no way past the lobby crowd. IDK someone the boomers respect, I have no clue, really. I would have to ponder it a long time.

Patrick Stewart? Seriously everyone loves him.

Anna

LOL, it wasn't intended to be "super serious". You made it seem like people were mocking the situation with the "rubber teeth" joke. So I replied in a more "professional" manner, if you will, because I do care what happens to vaping.

Lmao, I get what you mean. If only Patrick Stewart was ACTUALLY Professor X and could manipulate the minds of all the crooks/politicians. Let alone the boomers. Not that the boomers are the biggest problem. I don't have the answer's to everything but, I do think that more could be done.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Back to Heidi for a sec ... here she is at her 2019 halloween bash. Stunning.

Look it up if you don't believe me.

Alrighty then, resume normal programming.

 

[stols001]

Good god. LOL.

I believe you though.

Anna

 

[Alex Ferrara]

I doubt any spokesperson can get thru the green aka money.

Overtaxing of cigarettes is real,back in the day my pops went to Panama for holidays,i smoked back then so he brought me some cartons of cigarettes.
Price per pack was 0.50$,granted this was like what 6 years ago?
But the money the government makes off cigarettes is HUGE,the only way vaping would be totally free and legal is if they overtax us to death.
They wont tax the mods,they wont tax the PG/VG since it has other uses apart from e-liquid,only thing that is left is to over tax the nicotine....at least that is the way i see it.

Government will go yadda yadda yadda we doing it because health care expenditures and more yadda yadda yadda.
People will keep on vaping,cigarettes will one day disappear and the government will get their filthy claws into it,i can guarantee you that.

We have had a ton of those and in the mind of the government those studies they wrote about vaping are as useful as a liver flavored lollipop.

Bottom line is that each person that quits smoking is less revenue they are getting.

Yes, cigarettes are taxed to ..... I live in Chicago, Illinois where a pack of "premium" cigarettes (Marlboro, Newports, American Spirits) costs $12-15 PER pack. And that's not including downtown Chicago. $5 a pack would be considered insanely cheap for us, which is sad.

Also, considering the current state of vaping, over taxing nicotine wouldn't be the worst trade off. I rather have that, than have our mods, tanks, eliquid, etc. all taxed to hell, and then it becomes impossible for us to vape in the first place. Not like we'll get what we want w/o any sacrifice. The days where people do something out of kindness or because they "know" it's the right thing to do, is practically over. Especially with politicians and the media.

Not sure if cigarettes will forever be past news, at least not in my life time, but it is POSSIBLE that more and more tobacco companies will jump on board. If Big Tobacco shows enough interest, politicians will jump ship because they profit so much on them in the first place. Those vaping studies are worth jack because not enough people have supported them. Not enough people care to show up to protests, not enough scientists care to regularly submit studies/proof, and quite frankly, there's not enough politicians willing to risk their rep on vaping. Nor do they find it lucrative enough. It basically the same situation that happened with marijuana. The government was against marijuana for how long? Despite the PLETHORA of scientists and doctors that proved how beneficial marijuana was/is, in every possible aspect? That went on for how many decades? The only thing that worked was continuous proof and undeniable evidence. It was beneficial in a health sense and obviously financially. Now, I'm being very vague and purposely not going down that rabbit hole. We can sit here all day talking about the reasons behind the government not regulating pot and all the corrupt bull.... that follows. But as a principle, it's quite relative to the vaping industry and the issues at hand, in a sense. Vaping is much younger than the marijuana business so it's going to take time for any progress. If there ever will be, that is lol.

 

[DaveOno]

Traditional people who are not update on the science of vaping and cigarette thinks that vaping is more harmful because of the amount of vapour it produce instead of cigarette where less amount of smoke is visible.Thats probably why the amount of vapour a vape produce while cigarette too can be deceiving in terms of health harm/risk

Agree and disagree.
From my experience, most folks are just ignorant of the whole topic. For instance, my dad, an Ivy League engineer believes that nicotine is carcinogenic (it isn't).
And most folks I discussed this with just equate vaping with smoking.

After I try to enlighten them to the facts that nic is not cancerous, we lose over 1,100 Americans a day to smoking, yet the death tally to vaping in 5 years is ... (I can't find that number. Other than accidental ingestion of nic base, I'll guess under 10?) And they get more contaminates in the air following a Honda on the highway than inhaling my second hand vape.

Further, I'm at 12 or 13 watts. My cloud is near equal to a cig.

But it is a matter of optics. See a big cloud, it must be bad. Yet Carbon Monoxide is colorless and odorless and deadly!

(As is being downwind of my brother after 2 for 1 burrito night, cept for the odorless part)

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Also, considering the current state of vaping, over taxing nicotine wouldn't be the worst trade off. I rather have that, than have our mods, tanks, eliquid, etc. all taxed to hell, and then it becomes impossible for us to vape in the first place. Not like we'll get what we want w/o any sacrifice.

Everyone has until September of this year to stock up on all things vaping related. Big Gov regulations will likely change everything as we know it. Was supposed to be this month but with the corona virus they pushed it back.

If you can swing buying/stocking nicotine for DIY now is the time. Many here have. Same with RDA's/RTA's and mods (mech + reg). DIY supplies should be ok going forward but many have stocked up on those too.

Stocking up places you in control of your vaping experience for the future.

As always ...grain of salt... and

 

[Javichu]

Dang i sure feel sorry for you guys over in the US.
Having to stock all that product must have been a pain on top of the money you had to spend all at once.

Sure hope changes come thru and the situation gets better for all the vapers in the US.

p.s. @Alex Ferrara hey bud we almost have the same last name,mine is Ferrero like Ferrero Rocher,you know the chocolate balls

p.s.2 Not the owner or the son of the owner of Ferrero Rocher so don't ask me for free stuff

 

[Alex Ferrara]

Not quite sure what "older crowds" you have in mind.
But then again, I'm only seventy eight, so I'm sure glad I have no need to "understand vaping to the core."

Well, I wasn't pointing at anyone specifically. It was a general statement. I was referring to anyone between the age of 50 and up. Im sorry if you took offense to that personally but, I assumed that most people would understand what I was saying. Objectively of course. Most people your age do not accept vaping as a whole and don't believe that it's a safer/healthier alternative to smoking cigarettes.

 

[DaveP]

Featured snippet from the web

If you want more of something, subsidize it; if you want less of something, tax it.

 

[Alex Ferrara]

Tobacco companies aren't the villains. They've invested in e-cigarettes; the company that makes Marlboro is JUUL's largest shareholder, for example.

The real culprit is big pharma. They make a lot of money from smoking cessation products. It's a very profitable business model: Sell folks nicotine gum, then sell the 90% who go back to smoking patches, then sell the 85% who go back to smoking a prescription drug. From all the statistics i've seen, vaping is the most effective way to stop or reduce cigarette smoking. Big tobacco wants in on it; big pharma wants it gone.

If the pharmaceuticals had brains & decency, they'd put money into vaping instead of into politicians pockets trying to destroy it. They could buy up e-liquid manufacturing facilities and small companies in the business for what to them is a pittance.

Not all Tobacco companies have invested their money into vaping. If that was the case, vaping wouldn't be in "shambles" as some like to say. Tobacco still out sells vaping as a whole. That said, vaping has put a small dent into the sales of tobacco and by doing that, has made an enemy with most of the big Tobacco companies. When you compare the amount of money the average smoker spends a year vs. the amount of money the average vaper spends a year, the cigarette smoker spends far more. Bottom line, you have to keep buying cigarettes everytime you run out. With vape related products, not so much. Even if you bought ejuice every other week, that would not equate to what the average smoker spends. If you're smart, you buy a good quality mod/tank that'll last you AT LEAST a year. And that's if you're rough with your devices. Either way, there's so many different options with vaping that you can literally control how much money you spend annually (for the most part). With cigarettes, prices usually go up and you'll typically increase the amount of cigarettes you smoke, throughout the years. With vaping, you start at your preferred nic level and more times than not, you'll decrease the amount as time goes on. We can sit and talk about this all day but, we'll both have our opinions and rightfully so.

I agree that Big Pharma is part of the problem. But I stated my case in the above comment why most tobacco companies are as well. Both Big Pharma and Big Tobacco could profit from the vape industry but, for the most part, they don't. At least right now, that is. They currently profit so much more off cigarettes than they would off ALL vape products. Big Pharma has brains but, no decency. Vaping is a cure to smoking cigarettes. They don't want to invest into something that'll lower sales of something (ANYTHING for that matter). They simply profit more when we buy cigarettes, get addicted to them, go to a doctor for a prescription to quit, possibly die, and repeat. And there's always babies being born to replace the people who die, so it's not an issue to them. It's a constant cycle and that's how Big Pharma has always worked.

Either way, all we can do is continue to vape and hopefully push others to do the same. If more than 50% of the worlds population that smokes cigarettes quit and started vaping, then and ONLY then, would Big Pharma or Big Tobacco consider jumping ship. Or at least invest a .... ton of money into vaping.

 

[stols001]

I'mma gonna vape for the rest of my life. Count upon it. LOL.

Anna

 

[Mobc1990]

Everyone has until September of this year to stock up on all things vaping related. Big Gov regulations will likely change everything as we know it. Was supposed to be this month but with the corona virus they pushed it back.

If you can swing buying/stocking nicotine for DIY now is the time. Many here have. Same with RDA's/RTA's and mods (mech + reg). DIY supplies should be ok going forward but many have stocked up on those too.

Stocking up places you in control of your vaping experience for the future.

As always ...grain of salt... and

Is flavouring going to be affected?I will miss strawberry and grape juice that is US made

 

[DaveOno]

Is flavouring going to be affected?I will miss strawberry and grape juice that is US made

The flavors won't be affected.

The availability of the flavors are in severe jeopardy.

New York State has banned all flavors, in the misguided thought that it will stop teen vaping and injuries. (Despite the fact that the vape injuries were not due to vape, but the vitamin e cannibus crap)(And from teens I talked with, it's not the flavors, but the insane amount of nic in juul) (Plus the tilted studies that equate a vapor to a "yea, I tried vaping once")(And if they would enforce the current laws and prevent stores from selling to teens, and damn, but where are the parents???)(Did this hit a nerve?)

OK, I ran out of parenthesesess.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Having to stock all that product must have been a pain on top of the money you had to spend all at once.

It really wasn't a pain and it was done over a few years with a plan. Knowing this was coming, many of us here have been prepared for quite some time. Some are still in the process of stocking up or adding to.

Guv pushing it back helps those still working on their stashes. And who knows, maybe they will push it back further.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

The flavors won't be affected.

The availability of the flavors are in severe jeopardy.

New York State has banned all flavors, in the misguided thought that it will stop teen vaping and injuries. (Despite the fact that the vape injuries were not due to vape, but the vitamin e cannibus crap)(And from teens I talked with, it's not the flavors, but the insane amount of nic in juul) (Plus the tilted studies that equate a vapor to a "yea, I tried vaping once")(And if they would enforce the current laws and prevent stores from selling to teens, and damn, but where are the parents???)(Did this hit a nerve?)

OK, I ran out of parenthesesess.

No worries, I got LOST in all those parenthesesessess's!

Flavor's Good/(bad)!!!

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Is flavouring going to be affected?I will miss strawberry and grape juice that is US made

If you mean flavoring for DIY then as @DaveOno posted the flavors we buy won't be affected. As long as your strawberry and grape juices are DIY, you're set.

 

[stols001]

Might be harder to get/labelled differently but gettable certainly. Sold as "Add flavor X n a substance called PG, to rehydrate potpourri. Whatever. Yankie Candle alone could keep us going quite a long time.

Anna