Are those who claim that vaping is safer than smoking liars?

[Myk]

Yeah, and that .. uhm ... female.. (insert other word of choice ) .. forgot to mention one very important fact.

Namely that most of those oh-so-horrible symptoms are symptoms of smoking cessation.
Many people get those when they quit smoking tobacco cigarettes. No matter whether they quit cold turkey, with patches, gums, whatever - or whether they make the transition to vaping.

See here:
Canadian Lung Association>Protect your lungs>Smoking & tobacco>Quitting

(I would advise to read the symptoms listed. And to take the usual ANTZ blathering with a grain of salt )

Yes, that ... female.. quite conveniently forgot to mention that little fact
It may not have fit into her agenda.

/edit:
And a little note to possible ANTZ lurkers: You know where you can stick your lies, don't you?

That would be a nice twist from the ANTZ. Instead of denying the smoking and Ulcerative Colitis connection exists they could claim it's not quitting smoking but starting vaping.

Not only that, but she helped herself to posts here without asking for consent and, I'm sorry, but using forum postings as the "control" is NOT scientific at all. The posts in any forum are just opinions, unless the person posting proves they're a scientist with credentials and they've followed a strict protocol.

Heck, otherwise, we're all armchair scientists!

Also who knows how many of the negative reports are ANTZ.
I know they're not all ANTZ, some are people paranoid about vaping because the BS propaganda the ANTZ spread about vaping, others are paranoid because it's new.

 

[Anjaffm]

"Whatever" is my usual reaction but when its designed to instill fear in new vapers.... I have to draw a line there.

I second that.
And to those new vapers who seek knowledge on vaping "in a nutshell", I recommend:

1. CASAA - Facts and Science - and especially the FAQ's
2. The ECF Library

There is very much knowledge about vaping, nicotine, vapor ingredients etc.
Many of us have read a whole lot of things, including various scientific studies. No, not the junk science disseminated by the anti-smoking-anti-vaping crowd, but real scientific studies.
We know that our healthier choice is in fact a healthier choice. In addition to what our bodies tell us every day.

And I recommend that new vapers who want to know things start with some reading up on the subject.
I also recommend that new vapers should not let themselves be frightened and demoralised by people who - quite obviously - have no idea what they are talking about.

Read for yourselves, dears. And you will find out the truth.

 

[VapieDan]

I don't want to accuse anyone but personally I think they are, although for most of them, not intentionally.

A few considerations:

For vapers, it's very tempting to ignore the potential dangers:
Most vapers were former smokers, including myself. For most of us it is extremely tempting to jump on something that satisfies our craving for nicotine and is very similar to smoking. I was a smoker (2 packs a day of Camels) for 46 years and like most smokers I've tried all alternative methods for quitting, without success. I quit smoking after the fist puff of vapor and never thought about cigarettes again (it's been 6 months now). It's very tempting for me to try to ignore any argument that would point to potential dangers of vaping.

Those who claim that vaping is safe might very well be protecting financial interests of their own:
One argument I often read about those pointing to the potential dangers of vaping is that they are protecting interest of big tobacco or pharmaceutical (patches, gums, etc) companies. That may very well be true but let's not forget that although the vaping industry represent only a small fraction of revenues compared to the 2 mentioned above, the vaping industry is still cashing billions and that amount is growing exponentially (estimates vary from 100% to 400% yearly growth). Are we forgetting that those who claim so loudly that vaping is so much safer than smoking might very well be protecting their own financial interests?

The fact that most or all ingredients found in e-liquids are considered safe to eat doesn't mean that they're safe to vape:
First there's the fact that ingesting PG or VG or any of the thousands of chemicals contained in flavoring and/or coloring with food or medication is NOT the same as ingesting them through vapor. As we all know heating something sometimes modifies its chemical structure, can create chemical interactions and/or modifications of the components involved. In other words it's not because it's safe to eat something that it's safe to inhale the same thing that has been submitted to extreme heat and vaporized.
And then of course there's the question of pure quantity. My wife is asthmatic and inhales (non heated) PG with her medication. But let's face it, quantities involved are hugely different. I vape more or less 10ml/day. Can I assume that because the few micro mls of PG contained in asthma medication have been deemed safe I can with impunity ingest million of times that quantity when vaping?

And then there is the fact that amongst some of the thousand of chemicals involved in the composition of e-liquids a few ARE extremely dangerous:
If you're vaping and find my post ridiculous, please at least read this thread: XXX.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/534508-flavors-may-contain-diacetyl-there-really-many.html (Flavors that may contain Diacetyl, are there really this many?) Forgive the XXX but I'm not allowed to post links. Please replace with www

Long term research is non-existent:
We do have a few researches about short term effects of vaping and they do seem to indicate, for most of them at least, that vaping is much safer than smoking. But of course we have absolutely no long term researches due to the simple fact that vaping hasn't been around for that long. In other words, me and other vapers are guinea pigs and our cadavers, when we die, are hopefully going to provide data for future generations of vapers.

Does it mean we should panic and stop vaping?
Of course that's for each of us to decide. Personally, I consider that if we think that we are daily ingesting GMO's, breathing polluted air, eating transformed food containing millions of chemicals, vaping is probably not much worse than all that stuff.
But blindly believing that vaping is safe and that as ex-smokers, we can have our cake and eat it too is a bit unrealistic.
And also let's try to keep in mind that those defending vaping so loudly may have strong financial motivations to do so. Pointing the finger at tobacco and pharmaceutical companies doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have financial interests of your own to protect.

Wow! I'm convinced. Seems like we need some serious legislation! Oh wait that is already underway. Sorry.

 

[AndriaD]

I noticed after merely 2 weeks of vaping that i like fruity juices more than tobacco ones.

For a better throat hit order 70pg juices with higher nicotine.
both PG and nicotine adds more TH.
My favorite fruity juice so far is ColinS cherry. It's abit to mild on the TH though. (they only got 18mg i usualy vape 24)
And i've a bunch of yaeliq juices incoming to try even more candy/fruity flavours.
Blueberry / cherry are realy nice to vape.

And yea i eat chocolate aswell usualy with my coffee, it tastes so much better than when i was smoking.

I discovered that the taste I was looking for, similar to my cigarettes, actually has a little bit of fruit-ness in it... a touch of apple, with a trace of cinnamon -- hence trying out those sweet flavors first, since I was already tasting a bit of that in the e-juice I love.

I already use very high PG, normally at least 80%, because I have asthma, and this week, since I've had to substitute a VG Virginia since they were out of stock on the PG Virginia, I discovered that VG makes me feel like I've got a hairball in my chest that I can't cough up. And I can only go so high on nicotine before it starts to make me very ill; stomach pains, nausea, the whole shebang of nic sick. In the daytime I do best at about 8mg, so I don't puff constantly or have cravings, and at night have to stick to 6mg so I don't get the racing heart that keeps me from falling asleep. So my options on nicotine are very limited, and I already have to stick to very high PG proportions.

The only sweet one I've tried that did have a kind of throat hit is Halo's Kringle's Curse, the peppermint kinda substitutes for TH, but I use it mainly if I need to "shock" my mouth into being able to taste again; since I stick to that one flavor pretty much all the time, I do sometimes find I have a bit of that "vapor tongue," and can't taste it much -- the peppermint really kicks the tastebuds awake.

Friday I'm planning to get some "Constant Comment" from high desert vapes, so that will be something new for me; I always loved the tea so I'm really looking forward to it.

Andria

 

[p.opus]

Okay guys I think the Troll has been banished and we can put this thread to bed and let it sink into the depths of the new users forum.

One person did bring up issue with diacetyl which we definitely need to look for as it appears that the "safe" levels of inhalation of that product is in the 5 to 25 PPB (parts per billion) range which equates to .0000005% to .0000025% in solution, so I don't like when vendors say we use trace amounts of diacetyl in our flavorings.

On the surface, a flavoring that contains .2% of diacetyl when mixed in a 2% solution of 100ml e-juice sounds very small.
.2% of diacetyl equates to .002ml per ml of flavoring. In a 2 percent solution this would be .004ml per 100ml of solution which equals .004% of diacetyl. This equates to 40,000 PPB or 1600 times the safe short term exposure limit or 8000 times the safe long term exposure limit.

Now obviously we don't vape the entire 40,000 PPB of diacetyl, but if we only inhaled 1/1000 of that solution, then we still expose our lungs to 1.6 times the safe short term.

Until I see studies or math that contradict those figures, I figure staying away from flavorings that contain diacetyl is just a good idea.

 

[Hawaiian]

Went and saw my internal medicine doctor, he told me to lay off of cigarettes, I told him that I vape more now days, and he said its better than cigarettes. There are risks to every thing we do, but I'm very thankful for this website, never been around the forum where there are so much people with so much knowledge that are really going above and beyond to keep us constantly informed of "lowering the risk" of vaping. About cotton, juices, pg and vg.

 

[Anjaffm]

@Hawaiian:
Great posting, dear!
I would like to say "Thank you!" on behalf of all the vapers here who are doing their best to help other vapers.
Who have received help and encouragement themselves, and who are now passing this help and encouragement on to new vapers.
And there are many of these dedicated people. Who make this forum the lovely place that it is.
Welcome to ECF!

 

[Fisheeboy]

@Hawaiian:
Great posting, dear!
I would like to say "Thank you!" on behalf of all the vapers here who are doing their best to help other vapers.
Who have received help and encouragement themselves, and who are now passing this help and encouragement on to new vapers.
And there are many of these dedicated people. Who make this forum the lovely place that it is.
Welcome to ECF!

And this right here is the ECF I have come to know and love.

 

[RosaJ]

Okay guys I think the Troll has been banished and we can put this thread to bed and let it sink into the depths of the new users forum.

One person did bring up issue with diacetyl which we definitely need to look for as it appears that the "safe" levels of inhalation of that product is in the 5 to 25 PPB (parts per billion) range which equates to .0000005% to .0000025% in solution, so I don't like when vendors say we use trace amounts of diacetyl in our flavorings.

On the surface, a flavoring that contains .2% of diacetyl when mixed in a 2% solution of 100ml e-juice sounds very small.
.2% of diacetyl equates to .002ml per ml of flavoring. In a 2 percent solution this would be .004ml per 100ml of solution which equals .004% of diacetyl. This equates to 40,000 PPB or 1600 times the safe short term exposure limit or 8000 times the safe long term exposure limit.

Now obviously we don't vape the entire 40,000 PPB of diacetyl, but if we only inhaled 1/1000 of that solution, then we still expose our lungs to 1.6 times the safe short term.

Until I see studies or math that contradict those figures, I figure staying away from flavorings that contain diacetyl is just a good idea.

When I joined the forum almost 2 years ago, I spent hours reading throughout the subforums and that's when I found out about diacetyl. I made a decision since then not to vape any cream or buttery flavors as they may contain it.

My advice to any newbie is to read through the medical issues, and health forums first of all. There's a ton of invaluable information to be learned there. There has to be a minimal amount of research done by each new vaper, otherwise we're going to be constantly repeating the same things over and over again. I encourage everyone, especially if they're new to vaping to read, read, and read some more.

 

[Dethblood]

All i know is that i feel much better when vaping than smoking, and i listen to my body.

 

[AndriaD]

When I joined the forum almost 2 years ago, I spent hours reading throughout the subforums and that's when I found out about diacetyl. I made a decision since then not to vape any cream or buttery flavors as they may contain it.

My advice to any newbie is to read through the medical issues, and health forums first of all. There's a ton of invaluable information to be learned there. There has to be a minimal amount of research done by each new vaper, otherwise we're going to be constantly repeating the same things over and over again. I encourage everyone, especially if they're new to vaping to read, read, and read some more.

I agree; my mom keeps hitting me with the "great you quit smoking, but when are you going to quit vaping?" crap, and it's nice to be able to tell her about the scientific research which *I* have read about the relative non-danger of nicotine, as opposed to the generic "I heard somewhere..." which really answers nothing. You can't answer people who ask you questions like that, not in any really informed way, if you haven't read the research YOURSELF. I know all too well that in America, reading has really gone downhill, but when it's your LIFE you're talking about, maybe you ought to bite the bullet and ACTUALLY READ SOMETHING.

But maybe that's just me. I've never seen reading as any kind of "onerous chore."

Andria

 

[a wandering soul]

Its certainly not as bad for us to vape vs smoke. Nicotine is not benign but is much safer than cancer sticks.

I can has tapatalked this.

 

[KenD]

I've seriously never read up on anything that I put into my body, or that I'm otherwise in contact with, as much as I have vaping. There are studies of vaping itself, though due to natural reasons not a huge amount of studies, and longitudinal studies of most of the ingredients contained in e-liquid. I feel confident in claiming not only that vaping is safer than smoking, but also that everything indicates that it's generally safe (i.e. as safe to us as the majority of foodstuffs and chemicals we ingest on a daily basis). In fact, I'm more confident in saying that vaping is generally safe than I am about making the same claim about drinking the tap water and inhaling the air in the city I live in. After all, I haven't familiarized myself with studies and data on those.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[patkin]

The diacetyl issue is so old... going back to 2009 and 2010. I haven't found a single vendor, this day in age, that doesn't plainly say on their site that their juices do not contain it (plus any of the more recently suspect substitutes for it) or, in some very rare cases when buying flavoring, doesn't have a huge warning right in the description that this one DOES contain it. Capella and other big flavoring vendors are and have been "on it" for a long time, are very, very, aware of flavorings used by the vaping community... even breaking them out from food flavorings... and clearly are concerned about safety. There was a lengthy thread started aaaagain recently that I thought put this to bed with finality but guess not. It never hurts to ask your vendor about anything contained in the juice you're thinking about but if its diacetyl they might sound a bit confused about your concern at this point in time. That thread I'm referring to got me all riled up until someone knowing what they're talking about came in. In the meantime, I contacted my vendors and found out its kinda like asking the zoo if they have any dinosaurs there. The danger of constantly bringing up an old issue like this is that noobs will become so numbed out reading about what pretty much no longer applies that when something really does, they'll just ignore it.

 

[KODIAK (TM)]

Is this horse still neighing?

Inhaling carcinogens = not good
Not Inhaling carcinogens = very good

End of thread.

 

[AndriaD]

The diacetyl issue is so old... going back to 2009 and 2010. I haven't found a single vendor, this day in age, that doesn't plainly say on their site that their juices do not contain it (plus any of the more recently suspect substitutes for it) or, in some very rare cases when buying flavoring, doesn't have a huge warning right in the description that this one DOES contain it. Capella and other big flavoring vendors are and have been "on it" for a long time, are very, very, aware of flavorings used by the vaping community... even breaking them out from food flavorings... and clearly are concerned about safety. There was a lengthy thread started aaaagain recently that I thought put this to bed with finality but guess not. It never hurts to ask your vendor about anything contained in the juice you're thinking about but if its diacetyl they might sound a bit confused about your concern at this point in time. That thread I'm referring to got me all riled up until someone knowing what they're talking about came in. In the meantime, I contacted my vendors and found out its kinda like asking the zoo if they have any dinosaurs there. The danger of constantly bringing up an old issue like this is that noobs will become so numbed out reading about what pretty much no longer applies that when something really does, they'll just ignore it.

I think it's fairly well established that the OP was nothing but an ignorant troll who has that precise agenda, to scare new users about vaping. It's laughable that he might actually have thought he could scare anyone EXCEPT a new vaper. Just goes to show you how vastly ignorant all those anti-vapers are, doesn't it?

Greedy, stupid, self-serving, evil and wicked... they're all that... but over and above it, in every possible way... IGNORANT. To think they could scare people away from SAVING THEIR OWN LIVES! I can't imagine any ignorance greater than that.

Andria

 

[TallJohn]

My own improved health is all the evidence I need to feel okay about telling other smokers that while vaping may not be "safe," it is most certainly "safer."

I've only been vaping for 10 months now but the above sums it all up for me.

 

[Purplepeeps]

QUOTE=KODIAK™;12520120]Is this horse still neighing?

Inhaling carcinogens = not good
Not Inhaling carcinogens = very good

End of thread.[/QUOTE]

Just for you Kodiak


http://

 

[a wandering soul]

I think it's fairly well established that the OP was nothing but an ignorant troll who has that precise agenda, to scare new users about vaping. It's laughable that he might actually have thought he could scare anyone EXCEPT a new vaper. Just goes to show you how vastly ignorant all those anti-vapers are, doesn't it?

Greedy, stupid, self-serving, evil and wicked... they're all that... but over and above it, in every possible way... IGNORANT. To think they could scare people away from SAVING THEIR OWN LIVES! I can't imagine any ignorance greater than that.

Andria

I think this is out of line.

Its normal to be concerned about new (new is relative btw) things.

There are legitimate concerns re: vaping.. and this is the place for it. If he was trolling a new user will be overwhelmed by the evidence we produce.

Attempts to make us look bad here only make us shine.

But heck..today I got into a large argument on the safety of vaping.. where I took the other side. That nicotine isnt benign & poses certain health risks..

Which is true.. but compared to smoking its like drinking r/o water to the waste water from a coal plant...

People have a right to be concerned and not feel ostracized. . No matter our passion.

I can has tapatalked this.

 

[p.opus]

The diacetyl issue is so old... going back to 2009 and 2010. I haven't found a single vendor, this day in age, that doesn't plainly say on their site that their juices do not contain it (plus any of the more recently suspect substitutes for it) or, in some very rare cases when buying flavoring, doesn't have a huge warning right in the description that this one DOES contain it. Capella and other big flavoring vendors are and have been "on it" for a long time, are very, very, aware of flavorings used by the vaping community... even breaking them out from food flavorings... and clearly are concerned about safety. There was a lengthy thread started aaaagain recently that I thought put this to bed with finality but guess not. It never hurts to ask your vendor about anything contained in the juice you're thinking about but if its diacetyl they might sound a bit confused about your concern at this point in time. That thread I'm referring to got me all riled up until someone knowing what they're talking about came in. In the meantime, I contacted my vendors and found out its kinda like asking the zoo if they have any dinosaurs there. The danger of constantly bringing up an old issue like this is that noobs will become so numbed out reading about what pretty much no longer applies that when something really does, they'll just ignore it.

This issue may be old, but it continues to be of concern.

As of January of this year Mountain Oak Vapors released a statement that some of their e-liquids contained "trace" amounts of diacetyl that they were "unaware" of.

They seemed to also be unaware that "caramel" flavoring they were using could be a source of diacetyl. And affected flavors included full virginia flake Ry4 and chai tea latte. Flavors which may not be immediately associated with diacetyl.

Mountain Oak Vapors immediately released a statement to it's customers, which is great. However, this just highlights that this is not a "dead and buried" issue as you seem to indicate that it is.

Diacetyl- Risks, Prevalence, and Precautions

So while you claim that this is a non issue and that everyone has been "on it" it's obvious that some people are not on the same page. Even manufacturers who's goal is to ensure their e-liquid is diacetyl free. Continued vigilance is necessary.

You may be tired of addressing this, but it is something that we as vapers have the responsibility to address. We should not take an attitude everytime someone brings it up.

I personally stay away from creamy flavors. But many people who vape prefer them and they should read up and ask questions and should not be dismissed with a "that was 4 years ago, it's not an issue anymore".

Especially when as lately as Jan of this year, it obviously continues to be.