Are those who claim that vaping is safer than smoking liars?

[acka]

Well, interesting reading on this thread. Part of me thinks this thread should be let slide down into the ether and another thinks it's healthy to have these kind of threads at the forefront.

I personally went off-topic, and will stay off-topic now, but I have a lot of reading to do, and will do it.

I sought out this forum because I freaked out when I heard about Diacetyl et al. An alarm went off in my head that demanded to know why I have been so willing to accept anything positive about vaping and so irritated to even hear anything that contradicts this. This is because I know I'm an addict. I know this is an emotional problem, not just a substance one, and I know I personally really, really, need to watch this. I can't be trusted to act rationally and, literally, this matter is serious as cancer.

I should have started a new thread because I think I just have three questions I wanted answered. And they're not fact based.

1) Who protects me (the good, rational, mature, thinking me) from me the addict? The addict who, while posting on this thread espousing the virtues of flavourless liquid and highlighting the possible (probable/definite in some cases) hazardous dangers of flavours, was vaping a tank of DIY Pchela's, already rationalising how he's going to go through the 150ml of flavours he just brewed at the rate of 2:1 flavourless and then 3:1 etc. as a reduction method, despite having the resolve of Job just 2 days before.

2) Who protects me (the good me) from them? Who protects me from the profit-seeking, socially unconscious, health violating and possibly even sociopathic companies, industries and authorities who would gladly deny the positive benefits of vaping were it more profitable for them to do so. But also who protects me from vaping companies whose motive may also be profit. Who may use misleading language and conceal information and engage in dangerous known or unknown practices to the detriment of my personal health. Either through malicious intent or just plain, and even excusable, ignorance.

3)Lastly, who protects me (the good me) from you (other addicts)? Who protects me from people who are as irrational as I can be when it comes to vaping. Who assume causality when it's not there. Who make analogies to prove points that are completely separate. Who use personal short-term experience as undeniable empirical proof. Who, like me, so desperately want vaping to be everything that we hope it is will always bend that little bit of fact, make that small leap of faith, grant that small credence, to matters where were they regarding other issues they may be significantly more reserved.

If the answer to all three questions is "Me", this is a serious problem. For me. One, because in this matter, as an addict, I can't do this. I don't have the control, competence or ability. And two, because this means I'm operating outside of the law and that's not a safe a place to be. Especially not in a matter so important to my health.

I don't expect these questions to be answered, just getting them straight in my own head. A forum's probably not the best place to do this, but it's only the internet.

 

[Myk]

I think this is out of line.

Its normal to be concerned about new (new is relative btw) things.

There are legitimate concerns re: vaping.. and this is the place for it. If he was trolling a new user will be overwhelmed by the evidence we produce.

Attempts to make us look bad here only make us shine.

But heck..today I got into a large argument on the safety of vaping.. where I took the other side. That nicotine isnt benign & poses certain health risks..

Which is true.. but compared to smoking its like drinking r/o water to the waste water from a coal plant...

People have a right to be concerned and not feel ostracized. . No matter our passion.

I can has tapatalked this.

You got in it for speaking for everyone (at least by me), including those of us who nicotine is good for.
I'm reminded of an old Sufi story where Nasrudin is going through a story and every item is either good or bad, but whenever it's assumed to be good it's actually bad because of circumstances and whenever it's assumed to be bad it's actually good because of circumstances.

 

[a wandering soul]

And following me from thread to thread where I apologized does what? Does it make you feel better? Are you unable to accept the many apologies I offered? Do you have to have the last word?

Congrats. You win. You chasing me around makes me not want to be a member here.

And for what? A percieved slight ive apologized multiple times for? Stick your chest out & beat on it ffs.

Thanks for running a nu-b off.

I can has tapatalked this.


Edited to add.. the only people I see who are so vehement are normally those so insecure they have to attack people w different opinions to validate their own.

They are often called trolls as well.. & you following me around supports that. If you want to be the big swinging meat go for it.. me.. I just want dialogue so we all can learn.

My motiff is educating the masses... yours seems to be proving your point. Your case is the exception not the rule. Dont be so sensitive when people make common mistakes.

Live & let live .

Not chase & harrass people who share a different p.o.v. from you.

 

[xCJack]

This is why I ordered from Velvet Cloud Vapor. All natural and organic VG e juice, or so they claim. If I'm going to vape I want to vape the cleanest most organic juice possible.

 

[jensy]

Well, interesting reading on this thread. Part of me thinks this thread should be let slide down into the ether and another thinks it's healthy to have these kind of threads at the forefront.

I personally went off-topic, and will stay off-topic now, but I have a lot of reading to do, and will do it.

I sought out this forum because I freaked out when I heard about Diacetyl et al. An alarm went off in my head that demanded to know why I have been so willing to accept anything positive about vaping and so irritated to even hear anything that contradicts this. This is because I know I'm an addict. I know this is an emotional problem, not just a substance one, and I know I personally really, really, need to watch this. I can't be trusted to act rationally and, literally, this matter is serious as cancer.

I should have started a new thread because I think I just have three questions I wanted answered. And they're not fact based.

1) Who protects me (the good, rational, mature, thinking me) from me the addict? The addict who, while posting on this thread espousing the virtues of flavourless liquid and highlighting the possible (probable/definite in some cases) hazardous dangers of flavours, was vaping a tank of DIY Pchela's, already rationalising how he's going to go through the 150ml of flavours he just brewed at the rate of 2:1 flavourless and then 3:1 etc. as a reduction method, despite having the resolve of Job just 2 days before.

2) Who protects me (the good me) from them? Who protects me from the profit-seeking, socially unconscious, health violating and possibly even sociopathic companies, industries and authorities who would gladly deny the positive benefits of vaping were it more profitable for them to do so. But also who protects me from vaping companies whose motive may also be profit. Who may use misleading language and conceal information and engage in dangerous known or unknown practices to the detriment of my personal health. Either through malicious intent or just plain, and even excusable, ignorance.

3)Lastly, who protects me (the good me) from you (other addicts)? Who protects me from people who are as irrational as I can be when it comes to vaping. Who assume causality when it's not there. Who make analogies to prove points that are completely separate. Who use personal short-term experience as undeniable empirical proof. Who, like me, so desperately want vaping to be everything that we hope it is will always bend that little bit of fact, make that small leap of faith, grant that small credence, to matters where were they regarding other issues they may be significantly more reserved.

If the answer to all three questions is "Me", this is a serious problem. For me. One, because in this matter, as an addict, I can't do this. I don't have the control, competence or ability. And two, because this means I'm operating outside of the law and that's not a safe a place to be. Especially not in a matter so important to my health.

I don't expect these questions to be answered, just getting them straight in my own head. A forum's probably not the best place to do this, but it's only the internet.

Well what I am going to say will sound rude, and that is not my intent . I just think everyone has to grab a brain and figure those questions out for themselves. There is a wealth of information out there on e cigs and e juice , so READ . There are numerous studies and papers written about vg , pg , flavorants so read and figure it out .

When you purchase an item to eat yes you read the label perhaps and then you make a choice . You don't wait 30 years to see if the canned good you wanted to consume will reek any kind of side effects and have any ill effects.

Search and search some more for the answers and make a choice however know that ecigs are way better than smoking analogs , that is common sense.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

Well, a long read, but worthwhile. I am glad that it did not "slide" down. Information leads to understanding, that leads to knowledge, and that is good.

I used to tell my son that, "to much of anything is not good". Keeping that statement in mind, I saw some posts that were "trolling" for an argument by saying "what if"?. In the same sense, there was a lot of "fair" information that obviously demonstrates that vaping nicotine is far less dangerous than smoking leaf tobacco. But, to much of anything is not good.

E-cigs may not be for everyone for whatever reason, but, it seems that it is much less harmful for the clear majority.

I am very grateful and I will go to rather long lengths to use e-cigs over leaf tobacco. I, and those around me, are already experiencing the benefits.

 

[k702]

Who protects me

I think the answer is to look a little less for people to protect you. You are (hopefully) an adult. Children are protected.

 

[acka]

I think the answer is to look a little less for people to protect you.

Yep, this seems to be the way. Maybe it's a new world, maybe it was always this way. But good advice, thank you.

On that note, I have a lot of reading to do.

 

[FourWinds]

I'll agree with the op on one point: it does seem a little too good to be true to me too.

Well, I've made my bed, and now I'm going to eat it too.

 

[John Sonnstedt]

I feel that this must be too good to be true... satisfying, feeds my nicotine beast... there has to be a catch.

 

[a wandering soul]

I feel that this must be too good to be true... satisfying, feeds my nicotine beast... there has to be a catch.

I hearya buddy! But its not too good to be true!

There are slight risks from nicotine usage.. but not much more or less than a cup of coffee.. those ciggs ate WAY worse!

I can has tapatalked this.

 

[p.opus]

This is why I ordered from Velvet Cloud Vapor. All natural and organic VG e juice, or so they claim. If I'm going to vape I want to vape the cleanest most organic juice possible.

I hate to tell you that diacetyl is an organic and natural ingredient. It is a product of fermentation. It is naturally occuring in butter and buttermilk.

Just because you are ordering "natural and organic" e-juice does not make it dacetyl-free.

Velvet Cloud vapor does mention in the FAQ that they do not use diacetyl. But just as Moutain Oak Vapor also stated their e-juices were diacetyl free. As we can see, that doesn't mean it's true.

The sticky wicket here is with to the choice of flavorings that the e-juice maker uses. An e-juice vendor can have completely diacetyl free recipe. But if their flavoring is later to found to have it they are in a bit of sticky scenario.

It's very easy to have a diacetyl-free recipe and then later be shocked when the flavoring you add has it in the flavoring.

If our government officials were actually interested in mainstreaming vaping as an acceptable behavior. Standards could be established and enforced and current labeling laws modified for liquids designated specifically for vaporizing.

But our government officials are more interested in killing this industry and taxing it to death so that they can keep their tobacco settlement money.

As a result, it is on us to be responsible for what we put into our bodies. There is no need for paranoia, but vigilance is definitely called for.

 

[a wandering soul]

Natural does not equal safe.... there are tons of organic poisons... just saying. .

I can has tapatalked this.

 

[Stosh]

Natural does not equal safe.... there are tons of organic poisons... just saying. ..

Nicotine and caffeine are organic poisons, to name a couple.

 

[Triffid]

Certainly more study is needed, but how many FDA approved products have been found to be harmful in one way or another when given time and usage? How many safety studies on consumer items have waffled back and forth ( sugar, coffee, red wine, red meat, dark chocolate, white bread, red dye, plastic anything, whole milk, unbottled water, spray anything, butter, oysters, tuna, eggs, and of course ......... ) to name a few.

It took over 500 years for the powers that be to decide that tobacco was harmful. It has taken less than 7 years for them to decide the same thing on a completely different product, and start passing legislation to have it banned and overly taxed. Is it coincidental that they do this just when it appears vaping will generate huge amounts of income and significantly lower tobacco sales ? Given this, research on vaping could take decades. How many lives will be lost to cancer while the public awaits a definitive result ?

However, one thing about vaping that undeniably makes it a safer choice over smoking tobacco are the lives and property that will be saved by having fewer idjits nodding off and setting their bed or sofa aflame, or flicking hot ashes onto combustable materials.

 

[a wandering soul]

Nicotine and caffeine are organic poisons, to name a couple.

Exactly. . And knowing so helps us all. Spreading the idea that organic = safe runs risk to the movement! It has so much potential to save lives... we cannot afford to have it taken away.. especially from those that could help...

I can has tapatalked this.

 

[Triffid]

Ha! The edited out MJ

 

[a wandering soul]

Ha! The edited out MJ

???

I can has tapatalked this.

 

[MorpheusPA]

Nicotine and caffeine are organic poisons, to name a couple.

Here, have some deadly nightshade. Would you care for some tasty castor beans on the side? With hemlock seasoning?

Let me sprinkle some lead salt on that to improve the flavor...oh, that's the arsenic. Well, no matter, they're natural elements.

 

[RosaJ]

Ha! The edited out MJ

Yes, that is one of the forum rules. Here's some reading material, check out rule #14.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-forum-rules/51178-forum-rules.html