Are those who claim that vaping is safer than smoking liars?

[k702]

For me it comes down to this. If you could prove to me that vaping was just as harmful to me as smoking cigarettes is (or even worse to a degree) I would still most likely continue to vape based on the trade off from smoking. No foul smell following me around, no bad taste, my teeth haven't been this white since high school, my math says I could save a ton of money just by the end of this year with the way I've set my vaping up.

Life is full of choices, this is just another one of them.. Not really much more or less dangerous than most of the others we make on a daily and even hourly bases. It's all up to you really.

I think I said all I want to say in this thread now. ;p

 

[AndriaD]

For me it comes down to this. If you could prove to me that vaping was just as harmful to me as smoking cigarettes is (or even worse to a degree) I would still most likely continue to vape based on the trade off from smoking. No foul smell following me around, no bad taste, my teeth haven't been this white since high school, my math says I could save a ton of money just by the end of this year with the way I've set my vaping up.

Life is full of choices, this is just another one of them.. Not really much more or less dangerous than most of the others we make on a daily and even hourly bases. It's all up to you really.

I think I said all I want to say in this thread now. ;p

I agree about choices... my mom says I'm just trading one addiction for another. I said, maybe, but it's like trading in {Moderated} for bubble-gum -- it might rot your teeth, but it won't kill you!

Andria

 

[stevegmu]

Interesting some question the intelligence of others posing questions, while using grammar a 6th grader would be ashamed of...
I'm not sure they are liars; rather some have their heads buried in the sand. Vaping is clearly safer than smoking, as far as we know, but to claim inhaling substances deemed safe to eat is safe, is absurd. I could eat a cup of pvc pellets at work and be fine. Turn the heats up in my extruder past the point where pvc pellets melt and become fluid, to where they burn and form hydrochloric acid gas, and I'd be dead...

 

[Uma]

Buy only from vendors who declare to be dactyl free and you should be okay.

 

[CNYC]

Great Post OP.

I was wanting to post something along the same lines once I tried my 100% VG. You did a much better job than I could have done.

After vaping for roughly three weeks then stopping for roughly two I've done some non biased reflecting :

* Let it be known that I think this chinese invention is brilliant and worthy of many prizes. The E-Cig has got to be one of the most creative modern inventions next to the iPhone. I am floored.

1. Vaping is a nicotine transport system that mimics smoking by producing a cloud vapor. Some professionals refer to the vape cloud as an aerosol. * I relate it to a human fog machine

Would you go to a nightclub and stand in front of those machines and inhale ? I wouldn't but with vaping I gave it a shot because there was nicotine involved.

2. The E-Liquids are a risky game. Some are made in the USA but use a nicotine base made in China but how would you know this ? I used a reputable american dealer HALO and I was sick for days with dizziness nausea and vertigo from vaping a ***0mg juice. Obviously there are chemicals in there which don't agree with me or many others for that matter. I have read posts on this website reporting breakouts of hives throat problems nausea dizziness trouble breathing and over all "sick" feeling. Isn't it amazing that a cigarette has over 4000 chemicals in it YET they don't cause acute symptoms in most people like E-Lquid does ? It doesn't matter if someone is PG Allergic. The fact that there is something in these juices that does this to people is concerning. Any sensible person would agree with me. Sorry but with real cigarettes the negative effects take time to build up. Acute anything is extremely concerning ....pain stomach issues poisoning .

3. There is TONS AND TONS of money to be made with this AND against this. Be very afraid of ANYONE INVOLVED. STEP BACK and think for yourself. Educate yourself and listen to your gut.

4. So you don't lung inhale when you vape and you think that is safer ? Maybe but whatever is in the juice is ingested regardless if it goes through your lungs or not. Your lungs may feel better but that doesn't mean you REALLY ARE better off. After all we don't know the long term effects yet. I'm thinking maybe smoking a CIGAR ( a mini) would be the same thing as vaping without lung hits. IMO you ingest chemicals regardless but cigars have never caused me acute symptoms.

5. Cost ? I've spent roughly $600 in a two month period. It aint cheap ! The machines are beautiful and I want all the cool ones ! I want the accessories tons of juice and back up parts. That costs serious money for good quality items !


Hopefully USPS will get their act together tomorrow and delivery my 100% VG juice. Once I try it I will know much better where I stand...although I've read that someone had PG and VG allergies.

I am on the fence with this. It's stopped my craving for analogs but there are too many unanswered questions. The fact that it was invented in China also frightens me. Sorry if that offends anyone but there are too many production nightmares which originate from China.

I could see myself at this point playing around with vaping some more if the 100% VG doesn't get me sick. I might be just as inclined to smoke mini cigars. They smell and taste wonderful and are easy to carry. The cost for one tin of 20 is the same price as a 30ml juice and would last the me the same amount of time.

This is how I feel from *my experiences. DISCLAIMER.

 

[SleeZy]

CNYC, just don't buy juices from china then?
There's plenty of good juice makers that even declare their ingredient list. Atleast the juices i order...
But yea some people are allergic to either PG or VG, That's one thing you'll figure out sooner or later.

 

[jensy]

Great Post OP.

I was wanting to post something along the same lines once I tried my 100% VG. You did a much better job than I could have done.

After vaping for roughly three weeks then stopping for roughly two I've done some non biased reflecting :

* Let it be known that I think this chinese invention is brilliant and worthy of many prizes. The E-Cig has got to be one of the most creative modern inventions next to the iPhone. I am floored.

1. Vaping is a nicotine transport system that mimics smoking by producing a cloud vapor. Some professionals refer to the vape cloud as an aerosol. * I relate it to a human fog machine

Would you go to a nightclub and stand in front of those machines and inhale ? I wouldn't but with vaping I gave it a shot because there was nicotine involved.

2. The E-Liquids are a risky game. Some are made in the USA but use a nicotine base made in China but how would you know this ? I used a reputable american dealer HALO and I was sick for days with dizziness nausea and vertigo from vaping a ***0mg juice. Obviously there are chemicals in there which don't agree with me or many others for that matter. I have read posts on this website reporting breakouts of hives throat problems nausea dizziness trouble breathing and over all "sick" feeling. Isn't it amazing that a cigarette has over 4000 chemicals in it YET they don't cause acute symptoms in most people like E-Lquid does ? It doesn't matter if someone is PG Allergic. The fact that there is something in these juices that does this to people is concerning. Any sensible person would agree with me. Sorry but with real cigarettes the negative effects take time to build up. Acute anything is extremely concerning ....pain stomach issues poisoning .

3. There is TONS AND TONS of money to be made with this AND against this. Be very afraid of ANYONE INVOLVED. STEP BACK and think for yourself. Educate yourself and listen to your gut.

4. So you don't lung inhale when you vape and you think that is safer ? Maybe but whatever is in the juice is ingested regardless if it goes through your lungs or not. Your lungs may feel better but that doesn't mean you REALLY ARE better off. After all we don't know the long term effects yet. I'm thinking maybe smoking a CIGAR ( a mini) would be the same thing as vaping without lung hits. IMO you ingest chemicals regardless but cigars have never caused me acute symptoms.

5. Cost ? I've spent roughly $600 in a two month period. It aint cheap ! The machines are beautiful and I want all the cool ones ! I want the accessories tons of juice and back up parts. That costs serious money for good quality items !


Hopefully USPS will get their act together tomorrow and delivery my 100% VG juice. Once I try it I will know much better where I stand...although I've read that someone had PG and VG allergies.

I am on the fence with this. It's stopped my craving for analogs but there are too many unanswered questions. The fact that it was invented in China also frightens me. Sorry if that offends anyone but there are too many production nightmares which originate from China.

I could see myself at this point playing around with vaping some more if the 100% VG doesn't get me sick. I might be just as inclined to smoke mini cigars. They smell and taste wonderful and are easy to carry. The cost for one tin of 20 is the same price as a 30ml juice and would last the me the same amount of time.

This is how I feel from *my experiences. DISCLAIMER.

Could it be that you were sick from quitting smoking? It is unreal the what your body goes through when when quitting the cigarettes . People like to blame the vaping for feeling sick when they quit but it is your body craving all the chemicals they put into the smokes.

However by your last paragraph I am beginning to think you are giving yourself a reason to go back to smoking , the cigars you mentioned. Don't fool yourself into thinking because you will not lung inhale the cigar smoke that you will not be doing your body any damage. Cigars are just as addictive and way worse than vaping. You are also justifying the cost of the cigars to the vaping costs. Really, seriously , it sounds like you are looking for a reason to go back to smoking.

Anywhoooooooooo it is your choice what to do and what to believe . I wish you well.

 

[Mousey]

ANTZ lurkers are a fact, not saying the OP is one of them, but...

I am. The sheer arrogance and self-asserted authority of the OP is a dead giveaway.

People with questions on ECF about the safety of vaping don't spew absolute dogt as facts, they ask.

ANTZ types rile me up no end, not because they're against tobacco or nicotine, that's fine. It's their attitude, they float up there on their little cloud of absolute BS and spew whatever poison they could find. They're like my ex girlfriends come to think of it...

Sent from a cloud of ZMax vapour using Tapatalk

 

[Hulamoon]

CNYC - the invention came to fruition in China because a man watched his father die horribly from lung cancer, and had to do something to ensure no-one else would die in such a terrible horrible manner. The actual ideology was American I believe?

So.....nicotrol inhalers and patches (or as I like to call them, sucking a tampax) are OK?

 

[mykereid]

I'm the OP.

Then also I think that controversies such as this one will bring the vendors to be more careful and care more about their customer's needs and wishes. That's important to everyone. How many vendors actually state clearly that their products are diacetyl free? How many vendors give actual factual descriptions, beyond the vague "100% USA made", of what goes into their products?

And please let's not forget the fact that this industry is not regulated. This is practive means that anybody can mix up a juice, containing whatever that person wants to put in, and sell it out. Granted I don't think that major vendors do this, but the fact remains this is very possible.

Sorry for the long rant...

You don't intend to suggest that Big Tobacco is more concerned for the health and safety of their customers than juice vendors, do you? If BT has any concern for their customers, other than their ability to pay for the product, I'm not aware of it.

 

[Racehorse]

I liked the OP because I think the questions are valid.

Questioning is always valid.

But some on here seem to want to bury the very discussion of safety (except to say it's safe when they really don't know that). I think it's healthy to discuss.

A healthy person WOULD think it is healthy to discuss.

m not that trusting......... or gullible.

You're also not very open minded, and often seem very threatened by anyone who doesn't think exactly as you do. You also seem to believe that because you have more posts than someone else that makes you more knowledgeable. It doesn't.

Vaping is harm reduction. Safer than smoking. That's all. That doesn't mean there are no risks.

That is why I stopped inhaling. I still vape, I just don't take any vapor into my lungs anymore. Sometimes I blow it out my nose, etc. for variety. I am still getting plenty of nicotine though, I mean, I feel satisfied.

I believe vaping is the best way to quit smoking, that it is safer than smoking, but i just decided to "reduce my risk" further by not inhaling flavorings.

 

[Howester84]

I cannot really form a valid opinion in this matter. I'm new to vaping. I quit cigs 8 weeks ago. I now consider myself a non-smoker. I feel a lot healthier and my senses have improved in regards to taste and smell.
I believe the uk government are looking to find the negatives in vaping because a lot of smokers have made the switch, which of course effects there tax revenue. Greedy politicians.

 

[_Lee]

The OP may have some valid questions, but I feel there is an underlying alterior motive outside of a healthy discussion. That is all I will contribute to this.

 

[Joe P.]

I do feel some E-juice is better than smoking. Propylene glycol used with medications to be inhaled may exceed what most people think. Many medications in hospitals use Nebulizers. Many of these medications do not list (openly list) the ingredients. It is not hard to use these things called books or Google to find more information. The amount of "fluid" used in a day can be on par with what someone may be vaping (less than 40ml). Many of these fluids contain another horrible ingredient Hydrogen Hydroxide. Vegetable glycerin can be used in about the same way. As mentioned above the evil fog machines at evil rock concerts use fog machines. Now it seems almost every venue uses them (Disney use to use only dry ice). I am quite confident the venues that use fog machines had their lawyers peek into liability before allowing them. With this said, am I 100% convinced all sellers of E-juice will refrain from adding other known "harmful" ingredients? The honest answer is no. How many times has someone posted solutions to cracked tanks being get a glass tank? Acetone is not in any form food safe so how would it magically appear? Read MSDS.

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927062
http://physics.utsa.edu/memslab/MSDS/Acetone.pdf

The number of times I read reasons for acetone magically appearing confuses me. Yes there are other chemicals that melt plastic. Gasoline, diesel are a couple. All three can be used for cleaning. (Really, really bad idea, usually does not turn out to well. Google it.) I have read about "Eugenol" being used. It is used to cheaply mimic expensive flavors. It is also toxic, plain simple. When I find juice, flavors, etc. known to be bad I try to avoid these producers. More so when they claim it is "safe" to continue use if used in glass. When I find them I avoid them. As there are many producers of these products that spend more money and time to produce these products safely there seems to be many that are only after the quick cash. This really hurts those that do an honest (safe) job. These people are more dangerous than bad information. Anyone wanting to dispute acetone or eugenol being harmful, not the person I want mixing my juice. At least tobacco has warnings telling me they do not care and only want my cash.
my

 

[Joe P.]

Questioning is always valid.

That is why I stopped inhaling. I still vape, I just don't take any vapor into my lungs anymore. Sometimes I blow it out my nose, etc. for variety. I am still getting plenty of nicotine though, I mean, I feel satisfied.

I believe vaping is the best way to quit smoking, that it is safer than smoking, but i just decided to "reduce my risk" further by not inhaling flavorings.

Agreed. Except "Sometimes I blow it out my nose" that just tickles to much. Bill may agree 100% though.

 

[zapped]

Questioning is always valid.



A healthy person WOULD think it is healthy to discuss.



You're also not very open minded, and often seem very threatened by anyone who doesn't think exactly as you do. You also seem to believe that because you have more posts than someone else that makes you more knowledgeable. It doesn't.

Vaping is harm reduction. Safer than smoking. That's all. That doesn't mean there are no risks.

That is why I stopped inhaling. I still vape, I just don't take any vapor into my lungs anymore. Sometimes I blow it out my nose, etc. for variety. I am still getting plenty of nicotine though, I mean, I feel satisfied.

I believe vaping is the best way to quit smoking, that it is safer than smoking, but i just decided to "reduce my risk" further by not inhaling flavorings.

Ive had about enough of the personal attacks today, especially from people like you.

Its pretty obvious that this guy was/is a troll.Even Rolygate acknowledged that. You would have seen that if you had bothered to read the entire thread.

Being open minded about someone of questionable intelligence and motive doesn't make you superior to the rest of us, it doesn't even make you superior to them.

The definition of a fool is someone that's easy to fool. I'll take close minded over that any day of the week.

Go back and reread all of my posts instead of just skimming this thread, I said pretty much word for what you said about harm reduction a hundred posts back.

You must have missed that along with everything else and you're right about posts counts, at least in this case. They're not needed to know that your personal feelings (about a stranger on the internet??? really??) are getting in the way of your common sense and clouding your vision even more than usual.....and in my opinion that's saying a LOT.

Im not the one you should be arguing with in this particular thread.

 

[rurwin]

@JoeP The acetone found in e-liquids is in traces. Very small traces and no more than a twentieth of the amount in cigarettes. There's maybe a microgram in a tankful. No way is that what is breaking tanks.

 

[Anjaffm]

You also seem to believe that because you have more posts than someone else that makes you more knowledgeable. It doesn't.

Look who is talking.
Did you not imply, the other day, that a forum member with an ECF join date of September 2013 and a post count of approx 1000 has no idea about things? That such a member should stand in awe of those with a longer forum membership and a higher post count?

I seem to remember precisely such an utterance that was implying precisely such a thing.
And it was most definitely coming from you.

Do you change your mind and your arguments often? Or only when it suits you?

..........
That being sad, I agree that vaping is not 100% risk free. Nothing is 100% risk free.
Even life is not 100% risk free. Life is not risk-free at all. On the contrary. Because there is the certainly that we will die. Yes, each and every one of us will die. Life carries a 100% risk of death. And that is a fact.

Vaping is, however, a whole lot less harmful than smoking. Approx 95% to 99% less harmful.
And that is good enough for most of us.

 

[zapped]

@JoeP The acetone found in e-liquids is in traces. Very small traces and no more than a twentieth of the amount in cigarettes. There's maybe a microgram in a tankful. No way is that what is breaking tanks.

If you do a search on the forum there is an ongoing thread with a list of juices that are known to crack tanks. Theres no mystery there and acetone is not involved at all. Its due predominantly to juices with high citrus or cinnamon oils, both of which are know lung irritants and tank crackers. Acetone would simply eat right through a plastic tank instead of cracking it.

You can find the list here

 

[Myk]

Interesting some question the intelligence of others posing questions, while using grammar a 6th grader would be ashamed of...
I'm not sure they are liars; rather some have their heads buried in the sand. Vaping is clearly safer than smoking, as far as we know, but to claim inhaling substances deemed safe to eat is safe, is absurd. I could eat a cup of pvc pellets at work and be fine. Turn the heats up in my extruder past the point where pvc pellets melt and become fluid, to where they burn and form hydrochloric acid gas, and I'd be dead...

All except for the part where flavors are used for cooking, PVC is not. Cooking has some inhalation and like diacetyl problems would show up during their intended use. The difference being we use them chronically.

Could it be that you were sick from quitting smoking? It is unreal the what your body goes through when when quitting the cigarettes . People like to blame the vaping for feeling sick when they quit but it is your body craving all the chemicals they put into the smokes.

However by your last paragraph I am beginning to think you are giving yourself a reason to go back to smoking , the cigars you mentioned. Don't fool yourself into thinking because you will not lung inhale the cigar smoke that you will not be doing your body any damage. Cigars are just as addictive and way worse than vaping. You are also justifying the cost of the cigars to the vaping costs. Really, seriously , it sounds like you are looking for a reason to go back to smoking.

Anywhoooooooooo it is your choice what to do and what to believe . I wish you well.

Actually as long as they're not inhaled cigars and pipes are not that bad. When I switched to pipes my lungs felt better faster than when I switched to vaping.
The big bad SG study that started all this actually had pipe smokers living longer than non-smokers. Cigars are barely worse than pipes.