Are those who claim that vaping is safer than smoking liars?

[RooRooBears]

I don't want to accuse anyone but personally I think they are, although for most of them, not intentionally.

A few considerations:

For vapers, it's very tempting to ignore the potential dangers:
Most vapers were former smokers, including myself. For most of us it is extremely tempting to jump on something that satisfies our craving for nicotine and is very similar to smoking. I was a smoker (2 packs a day of Camels) for 46 years and like most smokers I've tried all alternative methods for quitting, without success. I quit smoking after the fist puff of vapor and never thought about cigarettes again (it's been 6 months now). It's very tempting for me to try to ignore any argument that would point to potential dangers of vaping.

Those who claim that vaping is safe might very well be protecting financial interests of their own:
One argument I often read about those pointing to the potential dangers of vaping is that they are protecting interest of big tobacco or pharmaceutical (patches, gums, etc) companies. That may very well be true but let's not forget that although the vaping industry represent only a small fraction of revenues compared to the 2 mentioned above, the vaping industry is still cashing billions and that amount is growing exponentially (estimates vary from 100% to 400% yearly growth). Are we forgetting that those who claim so loudly that vaping is so much safer than smoking might very well be protecting their own financial interests?

The fact that most or all ingredients found in e-liquids are considered safe to eat doesn't mean that they're safe to vape:
First there's the fact that ingesting PG or VG or any of the thousands of chemicals contained in flavoring and/or coloring with food or medication is NOT the same as ingesting them through vapor. As we all know heating something sometimes modifies its chemical structure, can create chemical interactions and/or modifications of the components involved. In other words it's not because it's safe to eat something that it's safe to inhale the same thing that has been submitted to extreme heat and vaporized.
And then of course there's the question of pure quantity. My wife is asthmatic and inhales (non heated) PG with her medication. But let's face it, quantities involved are hugely different. I vape more or less 10ml/day. Can I assume that because the few micro mls of PG contained in asthma medication have been deemed safe I can with impunity ingest million of times that quantity when vaping?

And then there is the fact that amongst some of the thousand of chemicals involved in the composition of e-liquids a few ARE extremely dangerous:
If you're vaping and find my post ridiculous, please at least read this thread: XXX.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/534508-flavors-may-contain-diacetyl-there-really-many.html (Flavors that may contain Diacetyl, are there really this many?) Forgive the XXX but I'm not allowed to post links. Please replace with www

Long term research is non-existent:
We do have a few researches about short term effects of vaping and they do seem to indicate, for most of them at least, that vaping is much safer than smoking. But of course we have absolutely no long term researches due to the simple fact that vaping hasn't been around for that long. In other words, me and other vapers are guinea pigs and our cadavers, when we die, are hopefully going to provide data for future generations of vapers.

Does it mean we should panic and stop vaping?
Of course that's for each of us to decide. Personally, I consider that if we think that we are daily ingesting GMO's, breathing polluted air, eating transformed food containing millions of chemicals, vaping is probably not much worse than all that stuff.
But blindly believing that vaping is safe and that as ex-smokers, we can have our cake and eat it too is a bit unrealistic.
And also let's try to keep in mind that those defending vaping so loudly may have strong financial motivations to do so. Pointing the finger at tobacco and pharmaceutical companies doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have financial interests of your own to protect.

8 posts then you post something like this? CLEARLY you have no idea that the vaping community is actually filled with very intelligent people. Didn't bother to read the entire post because I already know you're going nowhere with your point. Let me put a few examples of your post and you tell me if it goes along with what you're putting out there.

o Water will kill you. If taken excessively.
o Cholesterol will block your arteries. If taken excessively.
o Sugar will give you diabetes, cause amputations, give you ischemic infarctions, and will eventually kill you. If taken excessively.
o Not getting out of bed months at a time will give you sacral ulcers, which will cause a stage 4 ulcer and turn into osteomyelitis
and... end up killing you.
o Exercising too much without proper hydration will kill you through extreme rhabdomyolysis.
o Work will cause you too much stress, giving you hypertension and will turn into ischemic strokes and possible myocardial infarctions.
o Walking your dog can kill you because they chase squirrels and squirrels have rabies. So do bats.
o Breaking a bone will kill you via a fat emboli that may have dislodged from the bone's matrix.
o Talking to another girl will make your girlfriend standing right next to you... kill you.

Get my point? Think about what you post next time.

If you've actually vaped a good amount then you'll know that when comparing smoking to vaping...
THERE'S NO COMPARISON! Cigarettes contain thousands of carcinogenic compounds and the only thing that keeps you on them is the addictive chemical called Nicotine. Nicotine hits the "happy" receptors of your brain and dissipates right after, which is why vaping/smoking doesn't have a lingering high effect like other drugs do. Is Nicotine, by itself, linked to cancer or pathological processes in the body? NO! And you would've known that if you actually thoroughly read through this forum before posting such idiocy.

Okay. I'm done. Gah.... Ignorance at its best.

Happy vaping! Cheers!

 

[MorpheusPA]

OP:

Lets take up this subject 30 years from now, we all agree that the long term studies would be in by then. Of course, I'll be 95 years old, and if I'm around, I will definitely attribute it to vaping instead of smoking.

I'll be 75, we can sit in rockers next to each other. Neither will be able to hear what the other is saying, but perhaps we can all just send up vape signals.

I should also point out that at 75 I will have outdone my father by seven years, my uncle by 39 years, my other uncle by eight years...

If you're really that worried about it, nobody's putting a gun to your head forcing you to vape. As for the young'uns being well informed, do you really think they get all the information they need to make an informed decision when they indulge in other more serious "habits?"

This. I'm more concerned about my nieces having unprotected sex than I am about them vaping. Vaping they can quit. Herpes, not so much.

Mind you, I wouldn't be happy with them if they vaped--nobody's saying that simply breathing air isn't far superior. But if it's the choice between them playing with a vape or playing with a cigarette, I know which one I'm choosing.

Honestly, your post sounds like you're trying to prove a point with someone in particular, maybe a member of your family or someone you know? Because, I don't think you really believe you're going to make brownie points here.

It would be like going to a model airplane site and complaining about the dangers of getting hit by a flying model airplane.

Hey, those things hurt.

 

[Katya]

Are those who claim that vaping is safer than smoking liars?

No, they are not.

 

[jabberwalkie]

8 posts then you post something like this? CLEARLY you have no idea that the vaping community is actually filled with very intelligent people. Didn't bother to read the entire post because I already know you're going nowhere with your point. Let me put a few examples of your post and you tell me if it goes along with what you're putting out there.

o Water will kill you. If taken excessively.
o Cholesterol will block your arteries. If taken excessively.
o Sugar will give you diabetes, cause amputations, give you ischemic infarctions, and will eventually kill you. If taken excessively.
o Not getting out of bed months at a time will give you sacral ulcers, which will cause a stage 4 ulcer and turn into osteomyelitis
and... end up killing you.
o Exercising too much without proper hydration will kill you through extreme rhabdomyolysis.
o Work will cause you too much stress, giving you hypertension and will turn into ischemic strokes and possible myocardial infarctions.
o Walking your dog can kill you because they chase squirrels and squirrels have rabies. So do bats.
o Breaking a bone will kill you via a fat emboli that may have dislodged from the bone's matrix.
o Talking to another girl will make your girlfriend standing right next to you... kill you.

Get my point? Think about what you post next time.

If you've actually vaped a good amount then you'll know that when comparing smoking to vaping...
THERE'S NO COMPARISON! Cigarettes contain thousands of carcinogenic compounds and the only thing that keeps you on them is the addictive chemical called Nicotine. Nicotine hits the "happy" receptors of your brain and dissipates right after, which is why vaping/smoking doesn't have a lingering high effect like other drugs do. Is Nicotine, by itself, linked to cancer or pathological processes in the body? NO! And you would've known that if you actually thoroughly read through this forum before posting such idiocy.

Okay. I'm done. Gah.... Ignorance at its best.

Happy vaping! Cheers!

I understand what your saying, we all know that age old saying "too much of a good thing". But like Airdog I too wanted to know the name of my attacker. Even though vaping is more main stream then ever we are still in uncharted waters here and need to know as much as possible to fight any argument against vaporizing

 

[AndriaD]

Whenever I see a post along these lines, I always wonder whose payroll the OP is on, BT's, BP's, or the government's. Or any of the many zealot groups nowadays trying to spread alarm about e-cigs. I mean, anyone can come and sign up to the forum; even the employees of BT, BP, and the gov't. Or any of the many zealot groups nowadays trying to spread alarm about e-cigs. It's very clear to anyone with HALF a brain that vaping is safer than smoking. So it must be that either the OP has less than half a brain, or he's being paid by someone with a vested interest in the status quo.

Andria

 

[jabberwalkie]

You've been reading too much propaganda. Please give me a reference to published research that shows nicotine is dependence-forming. There is no such thing.

There is no published clinical trial where pure nicotine was administered to never-smokers and a significant percentage became dependent. On the other hand, trials of this type have been conducted, and no subjects showed any sign of dependence (even after high-dose administration for 6 months).

Smoking often causes dependence (on smoking), and it can legitimately be called an addiction as harm can be demonstrated. Smoking often causes dependence on nicotine, which cannot be accurately described as addiction since nicotine consumption has no clinical significance (on average it causes no harm). Addiction to smoking involves inhalation of 9,600 compounds (the latest number identified by Rodgman, Perfetti 2013). There are multiple synergens for nicotine in tobacco smoke; nicotine alone has *never* been demonstrated to cause dependence.

One of the useful features of vaping is that ecigs can be used to reduce nicotine dependence caused by smoking, and more successfully than by any other method (many vapers reduce the nicotine strength consumed, over time). It is unlikely that ecigs will be shown to create nicotine dependence by any statistically-measurable method. That is to say, if 100 non-smokers take up vaping, and use a nicotine-containing refill, then it is unlikely that more than 1 person will become dependent. Or to put it another way, if 1,000 non-smokers take up vaping, it is likely that less than 10 will become dependent, and this number is not reliably identifiable statistically as it is less than 1%.

there is much debate on if ecigs can be used as a cessation device. Personally I know several folks that have started at 24mg and slowly stepped down and now vape at a 0mg does. Unfortunately these could be the radicle in the whole equation. That being said dr. David xiu who holds several patents on e-cigs has now had his design cleared as a medical device by the uk mhra. So this is one step closer to be being a legit medical device world wide.

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

4 or 5 chemicals in vaping, many of them already studied extensively and in use by hospitals and doctors offices, versus 20k chemicals in a cigarette, many of them known poisons.

Youd have to be a member of ANTZ or a complete idiot not to understand that. I'll bet if you asked a 2nd grader if they would rather eat 20k chemicals or just 4 they could even tell you.

Sometimes with conversations like these, I can't help but think of the AT&T commercials of the guys talking with the group of kids...

For those who aren't familiar with them, here's a few wrapped up in one youtube:


2nd try, just a link: http://youtu.be/PxhADtdPrgo

I can just hear glantz or any typical ANTZer reciting the story about the pool

 

[zapped]

Unfortunately this is not remotely true.

There are over 50 chemicals used in Strawberry flavouring alone.

Vaping, unlike cigarette smoking, involves no tar, no burning, far less of the added chemicals, and less toxins.

It also gives very noticeable instant improvements - easier breathing, energy improvement, mood enhancement, cost savings and many, many more but it could be argued that these occur from quitting smoking and have nothing to do with vaping.

Long-term effects however, and unknown possible dangerous side effects are just that, unknown. But, unfortunately, very possible.

The best way to minimise these is to vape flavourless liquid, perhaps skewed towards a VG ratio with a slight dilution of distilled water.

You should DEFINITELY avoid Diacetly and it's related compounds (acetoin and acetly propionym) which is proven to be toxic, usually found in custard/butter flavours. Unfortunately it occurs in many others due to the complex manner in which 'natural' (unfortunately this is a misleading term and is still created in a laboratory from chemicals) flavours are created and the fact that Diacetyl itself is naturally occuring.

Vape safe.

Unfortunately, you dont know what youre talking about in regards to the chemicals in our juices.You cite one flavoring to support your argument when there are literally thousands of combinations out there.

My eliquid is made up of pg, vg, distilled water, nicotine and flavoring. Youd be hard pressed to find another 45 chemicals in even the most complicated of e-liquids, especially if youre vaping good old, American made gourmet juice from a quality company. Some of them are even organic

Maybe if your vaping some cheap Chinese made eliquid from a tobacco shop but even then your claim is hard to believe.

The rest of your post, I can agree with but the part about the chemicals. Not only have I mixed it myself for sale through my shop but Ive also been to a compounding pharmacy and watched them make juice recipes for a local brick and mortar.

It boils down to who youre going to listen to, an ex-vendor whos been here, active, on these forums for 5 years or someone who just joined this month.

You new members need to spend more time reading and visiting the CASAA web site and much less time trying to refute veterans who know better.

 

[neutrontech]

I understand what your saying, we all know that age old saying "too much of a good thing". But like Airdog I too wanted to know the name of my attacker. Even though vaping is more main stream then ever we are still in uncharted waters here and need to know as much as possible to fight any argument against vaporizing

And the op was given a ton of reference material to answer his questions. So far he has ignored them, yet continued to argue, which makes his intentions clear.

there is much debate on if ecigs can be used as a cessation device. Personally I know several folks that have started at 24mg and slowly stepped down and now vape at a 0mg does. Unfortunately these could be the radicle in the whole equation. That being said dr. David xiu who holds several patents on e-cigs has now had his design cleared as a medical device by the uk mhra. So this is one step closer to be being a legit medical device world wide.

I personally don't want them labeled as a medical device or cessation aides. I rather then be marketed as an it's own thing, separate from anything to do with smoking. Otherwise BP will be sinking its claws in and start regulating, restricting, and price gouging.



Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[No Nic Chick]

I feel like I just finished a marathon. Whooo. Despite the back and forth, I learned a lot from this thread. I saw a bunch of links that I look forward to reading later. (Kind of burnt out) Over all, I love how passionate everyone is. After I have learned more, I too hope to pick up a light saber and use my Force power for whatever side I choose. I'm on an e-cigarette form so you can kind of guess which side I am on.

 

[Mousey]

Whenever I see a post along these lines, I always wonder whose payroll the OP is on, BT's, BP's, or the government's. Or any of the many zealot groups nowadays trying to spread alarm about e-cigs. I mean, anyone can come and sign up to the forum; even the employees of BT, BP, and the gov't. Or any of the many zealot groups nowadays trying to spread alarm about e-cigs. It's very clear to anyone with HALF a brain that vaping is safer than smoking. So it must be that either the OP has less than half a brain, or he's being paid by someone with a vested interest in the status quo.

Andria

Beat me to it there sir, glanced up as i was typing the same thing and saw your post. I bow to your magnificent timing
Threads like this one are usually made by ANTZ 'tards or some Big Pharma/Big TB sphincter trying to introduce doubt into our communties. I'm over on UKVapers and i've seen the same post under a different username. I'd say just delete this thread and carry on induling in our little habit that we know is better for us than stinkies

EDIT - Also had another skim through the replies, i smell a team of above mentioned ANTZ 'tards/BPBT Sphincters all signing up at once just to agree with each other to try give more credability to their baseless claims. I'd be willing to bet a few quid (a few pounds) that all the IP addresses come from the same block...

 

[KjAthena]

WOW look at all those chemicals in an apple...are those who say apples are safe telling lies ? at least 12 of those can be deadly

 

[SleeZy]

Registrated in oct 2013 and now you started to post?
And this is your contribution? Trying to spread fear & misinformation?
This smells like it's made by ANTZ miles away.

The only thing i would agree with is that there's no long term facts yet. However it's been studied multiple times that's it's up to 1000 times safer than smoking.
Here take a long read over here:
The Ultimate List of E-Cig Studies: Are E-Cigs Actually Safe? *Updated 2/16/14 » onVaping

 

[loganfl22]

There have been studies that show nicotine as not having a negative impact on health. habit forming yes, So is caffeine and sugar but theres no laws trying to restrict the sale of those.
Also Kind of a side note but why are all these people concerned about kids moving to cigarettes from vaping which is one main argument for banning or taxing it. First of all after a couple weeks without a cigarette I smoked one and I gotta say they do not taste nearly as appealing as I once thought they were. Second of all when theres almost every flavor of eliquid available in 0 nic why would a teenager buy one with nicotine? just saying

 

[Hulamoon]

OP. would you like to respond? If your intent was to write something of import and it somehow came out all wrong by crafting it with a stiltifying formality and many re-writes, which in turn sounds very aggressive and pompous then do say so? Or do you stand by what you say?

I believe I can speak for all of us that we do stand by what we say about vaping and its massive benefits for us ex-smokers; and for no other reason than by personal experience. There is no hidden agenda.

There is a lot of real science that supports what we personally have benefitted from, and there's a lot of junk science generated via governments, in turn paid handsomely for their endeavors, by those same BP and BT companies. Heck some of its so junky that even the American Cancer Society itself has called those "experts" out on their latest ludicrousness.

Only you can determine what's best for you and measure it against something palpable - will I go back to smoking if I don't vape? Is it worse for me than eg LA pollution and so on.

Let us know.

 

[Mousey]

OP. would you like to respond? If your intent was to write something of import and it somehow came out all wrong by crafting it with a stiltifying formality and many re-writes, which in turn sounds very aggressive and pompous then do say so? Or do you stand by what you say?

I believe I can speak for all of us that we do stand by what we say about vaping and its massive benefits for us ex-smokers; and for no other reason than by personal experience. There is no hidden agenda.

There is a lot of real science that supports what we personally have benefitted from, and there's a lot of junk science generated via governments, in turn paid handsomely for their endeavors, by those same BP and BT companies. Heck some of its so junky that even the American Cancer Society itself has called those "experts" out on their latest ludicrousness.

Only you can determine what's best for you and measure it against something palpable - will I go back to smoking if I don't vape? Is it worse for me than eg LA pollution and so on.

Let us know.

I think we scared the little ANTZ children away

 

[loganfl22]

Way to say what I think were all thinking. Everything ultimately comes down to personal opinion. Nobody can or will ever agree on how healthy something is todays superfoods are cancer causers tomorrow. Things to avoid today are tomorrows miracle cures, I think it all comes down to how you feel. I know how vaping makes me feel and that is 100 times better than smoking and thats enough for me and my doctor seems to agree so Im content with that. Some people have a negative reaction to vaping regardless of the cause it could be due to a pg allergy or allergic reaction to flavoring what have you but the bottom line is that nothing is good for everybody.

Also since Im seeing posts about the chemicals and such I would like to point out that peach pits have arsenic in it does that stop people from eating peaches because personally Id say that in the pit is close enough to being in the meat of the fruit to mean there could be trace amounts of it in there and ingested. Following the logic of some groups that are moving to try to ban ecigs and such I should lobby to ban peaches.

 

[Hulamoon]

I'm an old softie, and just wanted to be sure that's indeed the case. Would hate for someone to be writing a treatise for hours trying to present an intelligent devil's advocate thread, and then realizing with increasing horror exactly what it sounds and reads like after the submit button was entered.

Admittedly there were responses at the beginning, but I've not seen anything more of late.

And if that's not the case, then I think the ardor and honesty of responses says it all. Good crowd!

(Just me, but if I wanted to be a zealot about something, there's a whole lot more worriesome stuff out there than this!)

 

[Rickajho]

Why is it the people with post counts of less than 10 know everything? Sigh...

Lesse, my MD doesn't have a problem with vaping. Neither does my Allergist or Cardiologist. Last I checked they have no vested financial interest going on there. Oh - I do. Considering a pack of butts where I live is now up to $10.00 and higher per pack I'm saving a .... load of money since I switched. I'm feeling significantly less financially raped since I switched.

Sorry OP, I'm simply not as paranoid. The point of the creation of e-cigs was to provide a healthier alternative to smoking. In general, the marketplace does not favor products that kill the people who use them. When we ever get a report of even one death being attributable to using e-cigs I'll get back to you on that one. In the mean time I would suggest you relax and vape happy. Or reconsider the known less healthy alternative.

 

[Bunnykiller]

the only thing that I have noticed about vaping that is bad for me is the increased appetite... for some reason smoking kept me from being hungry ( I rarely ate breakfast) now Im doing 3 meals a day as compared to my 1.5 a day... unfortunatley Ive put on 12 lbs in the last 5 months... but I dont cough/gag, dont weeze at night when sleeping, dont use an inhaler anymore, dont stink of ciggies, dont dig thru the change jar to find money for the next pack, there are alot of donts that have occured since I started vaping...