Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

[Midniteoyl]

if it looks like Bob's duck call,walks like Bobs duck call,quacks like Bobs duck call and you call it a copy of Bob's duck call,
its infringing on Bob's duck call.

you could call it Fred's frog call and probably be ok.

1:1 clones piggyback on the work,time,research and development,advertising and reputation of the original maker.

they still make Delorean cars today . however they are licensed to do so.
they paid for that right.

regards
mike

They make DeLoreans because they BOUGHT THE COMPANY. They ARE DeLorean now.. Parts, tooling, and name.

 

[edyle]

BTW, ECF should set up a separate forum for authentics vs. clones discussions and then charge $1 for the right to make a post in that forum. Every month, take the money collected and donate the proceeds to a charity that feeds hungry children. At least that way these threads would have an actual impact.

haha
yeah
There really ought to be some special place for repeat threads like these to deposit into

the topic isn't even vape specific.

 

[Davey59]

If your buying a clone now, you certainly aren't the likes that could afford a patented authentic mod.

Aren't the likes? well well, and poo poo to you too. Personally I "could" afford to buy anything I want related to vaping. I like money, many it seams do not and this is evident by their propensity to get rid of it just as quickly as they possibly can.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Right but if you've created anything with unique intellectual property, you wouldn't want others profiting from your efforts and would recognise that cloning does indeed effect you.

You are right, but then we wouldn't be talking about most mods, would we

 

[Midniteoyl]

Nothing that sells out has ever been over priced.

If you can't afford something, work harder, longer, or settle for the life you've earned.

Maurice

Now you've just hit the wall... I hope you never have to be disabled through no fault of your own or decided to help protect the freedom you enjoy to say that.

Talk about 'elitist'..

 

[Midniteoyl]

In due time everyone here will be making minimum wage if lucky enough to have a job or they will be wealthy and outsourcing to the third world or China. The one exception will be our military who we let other nations outsource to fight their wars. Anyone remember when a family could live well on one income and why that was so? Anyone from Detroit have any relevant comments?

You mean part of the same reason we are in this mess?

 

[bluecat]

In due time everyone here will be making minimum wage if lucky enough to have a job or they will be wealthy and outsourcing to the third world or China. The one exception will be our military who we let other nations outsource to fight their wars. Anyone remember when a family could live well on one income and why that was so? Anyone from Detroit have any relevant comments?

My sister lives outside of Detroit. Her husband worked in the city for the city. He was laid off. It is not pretty there.

 

[bluecat]

Now you've just hit the wall... I hope you never have to be disabled through no fault of your own or decided to help protect the freedom you enjoy to say that.

Talk about 'elitist'..

"Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"

 

[imsoenthused]

If your buying a clone now, you certainly aren't the likes that could afford a patented authentic mod.

Aren't the likes? well well, and poo poo to you too. Personally I "could" afford to buy anything I want related to vaping. I like money, many it seams do not and this is evident by their propensity to get rid of it just as quickly as they possibly can.

Amen, every time I see a comment like his I glance over at my ProVari and the one run Genesis atomizers I own and think "nope". They were top of the line and worth every cent when I purchased them. No regrets. I could even see spending the extra today on a VaporShark or a Duke style box compared to the Chinese 30 and 50 watt boxes based on the difference in circuitry and build quality. But having held genuine mechs and compared them to nice quality clones, no. The value isn't there. It's not a matter of being unable to pay a higher price. It's about fiscal responsibility and informed buying decisions.

 

[dr g]

My thoughts on this topic and thread:

1. I'm yet to see an argument put forth by the pro-original crowd that will reasonably prevent the pro-clone crowd from buying clones. As I think this point matters, I list it as #1 and will come back to it later.

Yup as mentioned, there is always going to be a supply of people who want to pay less and get more, even to the point of unethical behavior and sometimes outright theft. Letting this just happen is clearly unhealthy for sustaining an economy. This is why law is required to prevent economic damage and preserve fairness in the marketplace. So the solution really is legal action, so that people who have weak or no ethics are forced to do the right thing.

The odd thing is, it seems those who love Fastech 'clones' have drawers full of them; when they could have 1 or 2 originals for what they spent...

Agreed. I've been watching this issue a while and every single person I have seen talk about only being able to afford a clone can afford the genuine. Simply by being in the market for the clone is sort of a hint -- a person who truly could afford nothing but a very inexpensive device would not care whether it is a clone or not. And they would find better value in non-cloned products.

 

[snork]

I believe it's good that this thread reincarnates every so often. It gives the daily influx of new users genuine food for thought.

 

[Ed_C]

I believe it's good that this thread reincarnates every so often. It gives the daily influx of new users genuine food for thought.

Yes, but maybe not at a rate of one per week.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Um, are you saying you have to patent each and every different Caravelal? Um, no... Just the original and any mechanical improvements. Thats one patent, maybe 2.

Not each Caravela, but you do have to apply for a patent in every country to assure legal protection afforded by a patent. A US patent only affords protection in the US, every country that has a patent law can only enforce that law if you hold a patent in that country.

Do you now understand why a patent needs to be global in order to mean anything, and how totally absurd the cost would be to attain such a thing.

Any company who can afford to patent their products on a global scale is in the business of selling huge volumes of products, or small volumes at huge cost to the consumer.

A Caravela would be many thousands of dollars more expensive if it enjoyed global patent protection, and you would never get ahold of one.

Would that alter the likelihood of them being cloned, I don't know, but if Rolex is to be an example I would say you would still have clones or counterfeits.

Maurice

 

[Ed_C]

Yup as mentioned, there is always going to be a supply of people who want to pay less and get more, even to the point of unethical behavior and sometimes outright theft. Letting this just happen is clearly unhealthy for sustaining an economy. This is why law is required to prevent economic damage and preserve fairness in the marketplace. So the solution really is legal action, so that people who have weak or no ethics are forced to do the right thing.



Agreed. I've been watching this issue a while and every single person I have seen talk about only being able to afford a clone can afford the genuine. Simply by being in the market for the clone is sort of a hint -- a person who truly could afford nothing but a very inexpensive device would not care whether it is a clone or not. And they would find better value in non-cloned products.

As to your first point, I'm not convinced, at all, that clones hurt the makers of high-end originals,as they sell to a different market. If the clones hurt any market, it's the makers of low-cost originals and in many cases the clone-makers also make original low-cost mods. I think more to the point, sending all our production overseas has damaged our economy,

As to your second point, I agree that no one is forced to buy clones as there are low-cost non-clone options available, as I've listed earlier.

 

[Circa Survivor]

Yup as mentioned, there is always going to be a supply of people who want to pay less and get more, even to the point of unethical behavior and sometimes outright theft. Letting this just happen is clearly unhealthy for sustaining an economy. This is why law is required to prevent economic damage and preserve fairness in the marketplace. So the solution really is legal action, so that people who have weak or no ethics are forced to do the right thing.

And you think everyone has the same morals and principals as you? What's morally right or ethical is going to differ from person to person. I (among many others) love buying clones, but I don't think it's going to be the downfall of the American economy.

 

[Ed_C]

Not each Caravela, but you do have to apply for a patent in every country to assure legal protection afforded by a patent. A US patent only affords protection in the US, every country that has a patent law can only enforce that law if you hold a patent in that country.

Do you now understand why a patent needs to be global in order to mean anything, and how totally absurd the cost would be to attain such a thing.

Any company who can afford to patent their products on a global scale is in the business of selling huge volumes of products, or small volumes at huge cost to the consumer.

A Caravela would be many thousands of dollars more expensive if it enjoyed global patent protection, and you would never get ahold of one.

Would that alter the likelihood of them being cloned, I don't know, but if Rolex is to be an example I would say you would still have clones or counterfeits.

Maurice

While that's true, it would only be cost effective to apply in countries where your major markets were,

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Now you've just hit the wall... I hope you never have to be disabled through no fault of your own or decided to help protect the freedom you enjoy to say that.

Talk about 'elitist'..

I'm a disabled vet, thank you very much; 13 years and enough real world combat deployments to say I've earned my right to voice my opinion.

Elitist, that's your opinion; I rather liken it to being determined to accel in life without passing blame for any troubles I come across on anyone but myself.

I will carry my weight till the day I die, being disabled is not a license to expect the world to cater to my needs or desires.

Maurice

 

[dr g]

As to your first point, I'm not convinced, at all, that clones hurt the makers of high-end originals,as they sell to a different market. If the clones hurt any market, it's the makers of low-cost originals and In many cases the clone-makers also make original low-cost mods. I think more to the point, sending all our production overseas has damaged our economy,

The point of the second part of my response is they do in fact sell to the same market. Almost all vapers can in fact afford a ~$150-$200 mod; perhaps not super high end originals but typical domestic DNA mods. Vaping, like smoking, is a nonessential expense that people find a place for in their budgets. Vaping demographics actually trend quite old, so we aren't talking about minimum-wage part-timers here with no concept of money management.

And you think everyone has the same morals and principals as you? What's morally right or ethical is going to differ from person to person. I (among many others) love buying clones, but I don't think it's going to be the downfall of the American economy.

No, I know for a fact that everyone does NOT have the same morals and principles. That's what I wrote. That's why the law is required to force those people to do what is right whether they like it or not. Again everyone wants something for nothing. Few should get it in a functional economy.

 

[Circa Survivor]

The point of the second part of my response is they do in fact sell to the same market. Almost all vapers can in fact afford a ~$150-$200 mod; perhaps not super high end originals but typical domestic DNA mods. Vaping, like smoking, is a nonessential expense that people find a place for in their budgets. Vaping demographics actually trend quite old, so we aren't talking about minimum-wage part-timers here with no concept of money management.

Umm.... now you're just pulling stuff out your rear end.

No, I know for a fact that everyone does NOT have the same morals and principles. That's what I wrote. That's why the law is required to force those people to do what is right whether they like it or not. Again everyone wants something for nothing. Few should get it in a functional economy.

Seriously? Alright, I'm out of this thread. I'm gonna go shop for some clones.

 

[Ed_C]

The point of the second part of my response is they do in fact sell to the same market. Almost all vapers can in fact afford a ~$150-$200 mod; perhaps not super high end originals but typical domestic DNA mods. Vaping, like smoking, is a nonessential expense that people find a place for in their budgets. Vaping demographics actually trend quite old, so we aren't talking about minimum-wage part-timers here with no concept of money management.

Can and will are two different things. I'm not even sure what you're suggesting. Are you saying that all mods should be $150+ and that there shouldn't be any low cost options? You've lost me there.