Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

[Circa Survivor]

Honest and gloriously narcissistic!



I doubt most people have thought it through that much, hence all the ignorance in the "it's just a tube and switch" or "it should cost this much" supporting comments. I appreciate that Circa is at least honest enough to admit he'll never create any thing of value or bring a product with intellectual property to market so ultimately, it doesn't effect him.

I wouldn't go that far. We're talking about e-cigs, bud. It's not a big deal.

 

[bluecat]

I was not aware of that and have googled it. It is interesting but more of a philisophical term than legal. Most of the information googled tended to be consumer studies on "non deceptive counterfeiting".

It is a matter for the courts to decide. If one thinks they have been infringed upon take it to the courts. Make sure you have a patent/trademark/copyright at least applied for.

If you have some legal cases that you can direct me to, I would enjoy reading about them.

 

[bluecat]

The odd thing is, it seems those who love fastech 'clones' have drawers full of them; when they could have 1 or 2 originals for what they spent...

Now not all of us do. I have a SS Brass and Copper clone. I own no other clones and no other mechs. I have an MVP, SVD and spinners. I have no interest in buying another clone or device. Well the istick has caught my attention. IGO drippers are decently priced and so are pro tanks. Oh I have a kayfun clone too.

3 clones... 60 bucks... I may not be the norm, but apparently those that own authentics have a bunch too.

 

[HauntedMyst]

I wouldn't go that far. We're talking about e-cigs, bud. It's not a big deal.

Right but if you've created anything with unique intellectual property, you wouldn't want others profiting from your efforts and would recognise that cloning does indeed effect you.

 

[HauntedMyst]

BTW, ECF should set up a separate forum for authentics vs. clones discussions and then charge $1 for the right to make a post in that forum. Every month, take the money collected and donate the proceeds to a charity that feeds hungry children. At least that way these threads would have an actual impact.

 

[Circa Survivor]

Right but if you've created anything with unique intellectual property, you wouldn't want others profiting from your efforts and would recognise that cloning does indeed effect you.

These mod and atty makers knew what they were getting into. It's not like this is their "life's work." When they were growing up, they weren't saying "Dad, when I grow up, I want to make atomizers and mechanical mods and change the world! That'd be rad!" "Son... you can be and do whatever you want when you grow up. Just make sure to overcharge as many people as you can." Ok that last part I was just having fun with, but you get the idea.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Nothing that sells out has ever been over priced.

If you can't afford something, work harder, longer, or settle for the life you've earned.

Maurice

 

[Vermonster13]

In due time everyone here will be making minimum wage if lucky enough to have a job or they will be wealthy and outsourcing to the third world or China. The one exception will be our military who we let other nations outsource to fight their wars. Anyone remember when a family could live well on one income and why that was so? Anyone from Detroit have any relevant comments?

 

[Circa Survivor]

Nothing that sells out has ever been over priced.

If you can't afford something, work harder, longer, or settle for the life you've earned.

Maurice

I'm not even going to take this post seriously.

 

[Ed_C]

Nothing that sells out has ever been over priced.

If you can't afford something, work harder, longer, or settle for the life you've earned.

Maurice

I would agree with that for luxury items, but things like food and health care, not so much.

 

[TheProphet]

I'm not even going to take this post seriously.

I don't think it actually can be. At this point he has to be trolling.

 

[HauntedMyst]

Nothing that sells out has ever been over priced.

If you can't afford something, work harder, longer, or settle for the life you've earned.

Maurice

I'm not even going to take this post seriously.

I don't think it actually can be. At this point he has to be trolling.

I agree! I mean, work harder or longer or just settle for what you can afford? That's just silly business. For most of us in this thread, this is America! Our fore fathers and ancestors didn't bust their butts off so we would have to work longer and harder. Yeah, I'm pretty sure there is a paragraph in my trust fund about that.

 

[Midniteoyl]

You want all mod makers to outsource to China? are you a .....? New jobs in a new industry in the US and you want all those jobs gone so you can get a mod a little cheaper. I agree authentic mod makers should try the best they can to provide a quality affordable piece so people will buy the original over the clone... just like I did with the 454 big block rda. Why buy a clone for 30 when I get an authentic for 65. Support your country when you can. This hate your showing of American original mod makers is quite moronic to me... the mods you love wouldn't be here without them. They provide a competitive market in turn creating better and better products. Just look for the more affordable authentic. Dont forget development costs, clones dont have as much cost here which is another reason its cheaper

If I had a choice between $30 clone and $65 original, I would choose the original... What I will NOT support is $250 mechanical's when I can get even a Provari for less that had MUCH more thought, design, and manufacturing go in to it. There is just no way. And before you or anyone else tries to say there is a lot that goes into a mech that warrants the price, I say BS.

 

[Midniteoyl]

well,how are they supposed to act? is there a set of rules some where i am not aware of?



regards
mike

Its called living in a Society.. And, there actually are Laws against that kind of behavior. Protesting is fine, but there are laws governing that too.

 

[Midniteoyl]

And how much would that cost, how much of that cost would you be willing to pay?

If your buying a clone now, you certainly aren't the likes that could afford a patented authentic mod.

The everyone but me attitude makes me I'll.

Maurice

That doesnt matter.. If you are gonna start a business, do it correctly or expect to be booted out by those that do. To NOT take the proper steps only tells me that they are in it for the quick buck and dont actually care about their 'business' beyond that.

 

[Circa Survivor]

That doesnt matter.. If you are gonna start a business, do it correctly or expect to be booted out by those that do. To NOT take the proper steps only tells me that they are in it for the quick buck and dont actually care about their 'business' beyond that.

This. Especially when we'ere buying $120 attys from some guy named "Fatty" or some guy who goes by some stupid username. Look at Provape. They did it right. I don't see any Provari clones anywhere.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Legally right and morally right are two very different things.

As has been stated in many posts on this topic, China does not recognize out of country patent protection (a US patent only offers protection in the US anyway), copyright, trademark, or intellectual property rights, anyhow; thus seeking those protections is generally a waste of time, money (lots and lots of money), and effort.

So assuming a Caravela was patented, mind you there are only what 1000 of them, you might need to add around $20 per country if you decide you want your Caravela patent to be recognized everywhere in the world. That's 195 countries at $20,000 per patent divided amongst the 1000 Caravela mods, so the price just jumps up to +$3,900 for patent protection per Caravela.

An investment of 3.9 million dollars would be needed to get this world wide patent.

A mod maker is certainly not going to make enough mods to reduce the per mod patent cost to anything reasonable, let's say $5 that would take 780,000 mods, that market hardly exists even now. 10,000 is maybe reasonable, but that hikes the additional cost per mod to $390 for patent fees alone. There aren't 10,000 of any original authentic mods in existence that I know of. Maybe, but I'm not sure.

People who gripe about paying $39 for a tube and switch type mod aren't going to pay 10 times that plus cost ofaterials and a markup to cover profit and operating costs.

Protection from cloning, copying, mimicking, is simply prohibitive in this market.



Maurice

Um, are you saying you have to patent each and every different Caravelal? Um, no... Just the original and any mechanical improvements. Thats one patent, maybe 2.

 

[Davey59]

Not sure why this would go any farther than.

If they have a trademark they can sue.
If they don't tough luck.

If they actually have or have applied for a patent they can sue.
If they don't or have not, tough luck.

If you cannot afford to protect and enforce your rights then you have a bad business model. Maybe try to innovate faster.

It is not a crime to buy stolen goods. It is however a crime to knowingly buy stolen goods.

If you feel you are getting extra value when paying very high prices for essentially the same thing GO FOR IT! I like choices and fully support that.

Turning a snobby nose up at others is worth extra to some, so pay the price and enjoy your extra value. The reality is you may be laughed at by most instead of admired.

Cry all you want but until the US enacts trade agreements that actually benefit the country more than short term numbers for a few you can jump on the outsource bandwagon or have a very high probability of failure.

I would bet that few items are actually trademarked or copyrighted. I have no numbers or links to back that up. What I do know is that this never ending debate is some dam good advertising and really gets the names out there effectively and repeatedly to the small group who is the target.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Just a tube and switch, something tells me nobody would by just a tube and a switch.

Defining characteristics, let's see, switch design, top cap design, tube design in terms of length and adjustability, functional design features such as copper lined stainless steel or brass, or you name it. A mod is far more than a tube and some threading. Even the SMPL is beyond that.

Maurice

All just a variation on a theme.. A rose is a rose.

 

[Midniteoyl]

This debate is so tiring after awhile, as from an authentic point of view, there is nothing even worth debating.

Clones suck, and if you buy them you are supporting theft of design, unoriginality, and sweatshop-style labor. I don't see where anything else really needs to be said on the issue given those three facts.

Bolded is a also a very big assumption.. I have seen worse working conditions here in the States.