This, so much this, and he actually understates how ....ed up Chinese business practices are. There is no incentive or structure in China for sustainable business. Everything is short term and done without any concern for the future. You can imagine why that is bad in general, but worse when western markets are influenced by it.
Authentic makers sueing Cloners?
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This, so much this, and he actually understates how ....ed up Chinese business practices are. There is no incentive or structure in China for sustainable business. Everything is short term and done without any concern for the future. You can imagine why that is bad in general, but worse when western markets are influenced by it.
The needs of the many out weighs the needs of the few... or one
We are feeding hundreds in China instead of 1-4 in the US...
Joke or not, nationality of the cloners is not really relevant.
While you may well feed a few Chinese in your seeking out a bargain, you and the legions of others with like minds collectively have driven your own jobs out of your country.
You being anyone who whole heartedly supports clones and honestly can't afford an authentic in the up to $300 range.
Donate plasma for a couple months, get a second job for a week or two, collect cans, cancel cable for a while, cut you calorie intake and eat less expensive food for a while, take the bus and not your car, adjust your exemptions so you get nothing back at tax time (its your money use it).
Still not enough vape unflavored DIY, that's about as cheap as you can get.
Use cotton or rayon and rebuild your own coils with 316l wire, lifetime sized spools can be had for a little bit of nothing.
Cut your phone off, etc.
If you want a particular device, buy it, cherish it, and it will serve you well for generations if it was something worth buying in the first place.
Maurice
Never said it was. After 2 years of reading this same old same old, I refuse to be sucked into it.
Buying clones does not affect me personally, so I don't really care. I will never feel bad for not supporting people who's products have been cloned. And none of that "if it was you," cause it isn't.
The needs of the many out weighs the needs of the few... or one
We are feeding hundreds in China instead of 1-4 in the US...
Theft and artificial value, exactly describes what a clone represents in my opinion in the fewest possible words.
If you steal a dollar from a millionaire its still theft, and no matter what lengths you went to in your efforts to steal that dollar you didn't earn it, and no justification however profound will ever make it right.
It is false logic to say that having that dollar might make someone else want to earn a dollar, the method by which you came to have that dollar is as much a part of the equation as anything.
Where I think retribution exists is when in pursuit of a something for nothing deal many whom seek out clones find substandard likenesses to the authentic, and face problems with little to no support or recourse to correct their issues. A clone battery, a clone mod, a clone atty, a clone charger, a clone juice; what could possibly go wrong?
Maurice
If you pay sales, local, state or income taxes and your taxes have gone up since you have been paying them, chances are good not supporting American manufacturing is a reason why- not the only reason, not even a big reason, but it is part of the reason...
I just don't care. If anybody wants to get in to manufacturing in today's global economy, they're swimming with sharks, and it's not my job or duty to protect them from those teeth. If an authentic mod/topper manufacturer would like for me to buy their product instead of a clone all they have to do is make me. Either offer me a better value for my money, or halt the sale of their better valued competition's product. Until they make me it's just not my problem. All weeping about morality, ethics, or the death of U.S.A. manufacturing as a viable global economic interest just don't matter as much to me as maximizing my buying power to attain as many of the things I want as possible. My wallet speaks the greedy trade argot of capitalism in action, and your approval or lack there of is, alas, merely english.
Totally agreed. This is the definition of capitalism. Don't like it? Tough. Get a patent or something to protect your intellectual property. If you can't be bothered to do that, then it's your OWN fault.
Buying a lot of cheaply made junk doesn't save anyone money in the long run... I'd rather have fewer nice things...
I find this topic interesting, and have no dog in this fight.
For wood working and painting I prefer to buy my dustless equipment from a manufacturer called Festool originally called Protool. They are a German company with a top notch three year warranty. Within the first 30 days you can return the tools for any reason at all. After the 30 days grace period the warranty is 3 years. First year they cover shipping both ways. Second year you pay shipping and return shipping is on their end. Third year you pay shipping both ways.They cover parts and labor at all stages. All parts of the equipment is made by Festool, not out sourced. They have an excellent reputation along with many saying there stuff is to expensive. That is life you cant please them all. Could I buy cheaper alternatives? Of course, but I am comfortable with their products and understand why I pay more for them.
Now with mods and atty's it is a different ball game Where is the solid warranty by the majority of these higher priced mods? Provari does the best it seems and I am considering buying one because of the warranty along with the Provari owners happiness with them. Hana Modz on the other hand has a 90 day warranty and the mods have just as many quirks and bugs as the clones do it seems. So what is the benefit of buying from them? Simply the Evolve chip? Not knocking Hana I was considering buying one and told my wife the other day I might get myself one for X-mas because I like their look. I am simply using them as an example.
It seems to me if the mod makers stepped up to the plate and offered top notch customer service along with a solid warranty then more ppl who could afford them would purchase from them. I have no problem with clones. I have a Kayfun clone on the way from Fasttech Gives me a chance to test drive the product style before deciding to purchase the original. Without clones and only hundreds of dollars devices how many ppl would still be sucking on BT's tit? Not everyone can afford the best brand name on things so alternatives are out there. It is done in many markets, but usually under a different name. TV companies are not saying Sony style.
With that said I think logos and names should be left off but that is just my opinion.
For wood working and painting I prefer to buy my dustless equipment from a manufacturer called Festool originally called Protool. They are a German company with a top notch three year warranty. Within the first 30 days you can return the tools for any reason at all. After the 30 days grace period the warranty is 3 years. First year they cover shipping both ways. Second year you pay shipping and return shipping is on their end. Third year you pay shipping both ways.They cover parts and labor at all stages. All parts of the equipment is made by Festool, not out sourced. They have an excellent reputation along with many saying there stuff is to expensive. That is life you cant please them all. Could I buy cheaper alternatives? Of course, but I am comfortable with their products and understand why I pay more for them.
Now with mods and atty's it is a different ball game Where is the solid warranty by the majority of these higher priced mods? Provari does the best it seems and I am considering buying one because of the warranty along with the Provari owners happiness with them. Hana Modz on the other hand has a 90 day warranty and the mods have just as many quirks and bugs as the clones do it seems. So what is the benefit of buying from them? Simply the Evolve chip? Not knocking Hana I was considering buying one and told my wife the other day I might get myself one for X-mas because I like their look. I am simply using them as an example.
It seems to me if the mod makers stepped up to the plate and offered top notch customer service along with a solid warranty then more ppl who could afford them would purchase from them. I have no problem with clones. I have a Kayfun clone on the way from Fasttech Gives me a chance to test drive the product style before deciding to purchase the original. Without clones and only hundreds of dollars devices how many ppl would still be sucking on BT's tit? Not everyone can afford the best brand name on things so alternatives are out there. It is done in many markets, but usually under a different name. TV companies are not saying Sony style.
With that said I think logos and names should be left off but that is just my opinion.
I think you don't understand capitalism, a lower priced authentic device is capitalism, a clone is theft. Capitalism ≠ theft.
Maurice
Capitalism = Market dictated by the wallet. You can complain about theft until you are blue in the face, but the fact is, if they cared, they would make an effort to protect their IP.
Ultimately I think the idea of "clones" is nonsense to begin with. Almost all the way across the board, it's a metal tube, with either an end switch or a side switch, and the ONLY defining characteristic is some etching on the side.
That having been said, what is the warranty on these authentics? My $185 I spent on a Provari got me a 2 YEAR warranty. (That's where my money goes)
In a high tech driven world it is harder and harder to buy American. How many own an Element brand TV? Element is American made but yet they get little exposure. Good luck finding an American built cell phone. We make less and less in this county and there was a time when buying a foreign made product was not normal. I buy my Paint sprayers from Graco because they are quality and manufactured in Minnesota. Not saying you can't find quality stuff manufactured by American hands but it is getting harder and the harder it seems, and less ppl seem to care. The world is becoming its own melting pot.
On a smaller scale many ppl choose to purchase online instead of supporting their local community. A click on the computer versus a drive across town based on selection, price, and convenience.
Sorry it is a bit off topic.
That's between the designer, the clone maker, and the courts, as well as the executive's willingness and ability to enforce the court's ruling. Unless you mean morally, in which case your's aren't mine, and, barring some legislation and it's enforcement, you can't make me act like I care.
lol I know I need to be strung up.How dare you buy that German junk! Go USA!!
I go out of my way to buy American made; certainly the choices are limited and some aren't practical...
Oddly enough, I run Graco hose on my line at work from time to time...
Just a tube and switch, something tells me nobody would by just a tube and a switch.
Defining characteristics, let's see, switch design, top cap design, tube design in terms of length and adjustability, functional design features such as copper lined stainless steel or brass, or you name it. A mod is far more than a tube and some threading. Even the SMPL is beyond that.
Maurice
Lifetime performance, fit, and finish warranty on my favorite stuff, and I've used it occasionally.
If I could like a post multiple times I would repeatedly click like on this post until my right hand pointer finger was sore. Then contemplate stopping, though probably click the button some more with my other fingers.
I am actually in the market for a new flat screen TV/computer monitor. I have checked local sources and I cannot seem to find a local B&M that sells the specs I want, thus I feel I have to turn to the internet (kind of goes back to the first quote of my post).
For almost anything else however, I buy from local business as often as possible. As far as this applying to my e-cig hobby, the only hardware I have purchased online is a Veritas RDA. Other than that, my go-to B&M gets all my business for hardware and a few juices. Certain juices must be ordered online however (tVC, MBV).
What about titanium lined copper?
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