The poor man's copyright is a myth, in any case.
snopes.com: Poor Man's Copyright
Copyright in General (FAQ) | U.S. Copyright Office
https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2006/08/25/the-myth-of-poor-mans-copyright/
Authentic makers sueing Cloners?
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The poor man's copyright is a myth, in any case.
snopes.com: Poor Man's Copyright
Copyright in General (FAQ) | U.S. Copyright Office
https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2006/08/25/the-myth-of-poor-mans-copyright/
My take on this is I understand all the work that goes into design as I have friends in industries who make items that take many hours to design.
Cost of materials aside, one thing not having much light shone on it is the amount of hours one, two, or more people put into the particular design. I do not know off the top of my head what any kind of machinist/machine shop charges per hour, or mechanical designers charge per hour, although I am willing to bet in USD it is between $60-$140/hr depending on where such shop is located.
That said, for a mod that sells for $250 retail, and 1000 were made, that is $250,000 total. I am not a business expert though figure some basic math and think about the time put into design (and don't go and say "its just a tube"), add in cost of materials, packaging, distribution, etc. and you end up with whatever figure going as profit to the manufacturer after all of those costs are subtracted from the first large number seen above.
On a side note, I was speaking with a mod manufacturer, and he actually told me that his particular company starts with not copper tube, but rather round copper stock, and it is drilled out to the desired ID and then tapped for the threads his design calls for. Last I checked (oh, a few days ago, being a plumber and all), a stick of 3/4" (closest to 22mm) type K copper (thickest wall), only sold in 20' lengths, sells for $80 to the trade (plumbing). That is $4 a foot. For 3/4" pipe. That said, imagine what solid copper stock (of similar OD) will cost (or research it online, I am too lazy).
Keep in mind the manufacturer's machine shop does recoup a little with the drill shavings in this case, though the price paid for recycled scrap copper does not come anywhere close to what is paid initially.
That said, I work my .... off to make the money I make and I choose to buy authentic simply because I understand what I explained above, and cause I want to.
Cost of materials aside, one thing not having much light shone on it is the amount of hours one, two, or more people put into the particular design. I do not know off the top of my head what any kind of machinist/machine shop charges per hour, or mechanical designers charge per hour, although I am willing to bet in USD it is between $60-$140/hr depending on where such shop is located.
That said, for a mod that sells for $250 retail, and 1000 were made, that is $250,000 total. I am not a business expert though figure some basic math and think about the time put into design (and don't go and say "its just a tube"), add in cost of materials, packaging, distribution, etc. and you end up with whatever figure going as profit to the manufacturer after all of those costs are subtracted from the first large number seen above.
On a side note, I was speaking with a mod manufacturer, and he actually told me that his particular company starts with not copper tube, but rather round copper stock, and it is drilled out to the desired ID and then tapped for the threads his design calls for. Last I checked (oh, a few days ago, being a plumber and all), a stick of 3/4" (closest to 22mm) type K copper (thickest wall), only sold in 20' lengths, sells for $80 to the trade (plumbing). That is $4 a foot. For 3/4" pipe. That said, imagine what solid copper stock (of similar OD) will cost (or research it online, I am too lazy).
Keep in mind the manufacturer's machine shop does recoup a little with the drill shavings in this case, though the price paid for recycled scrap copper does not come anywhere close to what is paid initially.
That said, I work my .... off to make the money I make and I choose to buy authentic simply because I understand what I explained above, and cause I want to.
I think that one reason some new mods are extravagantly expensive is snobbery - my new mod cost more than yours.
How else to explain the hunger for items such as the Glas. Is it really superior to a workhorse, or a workman grade from Super T?
The demand is there for a tube that can be thought of as superior to any other tube, and that demand is met by manufacturers.
Superiority is conferred by better finish, or bling - rarely is thought given to a better electrical pathway for the current, as most customers do not have much grasp of electrical theory. This applies to most manufacturers too, as can be seen with switch design. On a mechanical mod, the switch reduces to a sliding contact. Resistance of this contact will be proportional to the area of the sliding contact patch. Bigger area is better.
How many designs attempt to maximise this?
Then there is oxidation/tarnishing of connections, and choice of metal for your mod.
People like copper mods, given that copper is much more conductive than stainless steel. This is countered by the fact that copper tarnishes, so screw threads, and all areas of contact between one bit of metal and the next, will become bottlenecks for the current as the oxidation/tarnishing takes hold and gets worse. Metal oxides do not conduct electricity at all well, if at all.
An example - a chain is as strong as it's weakest link, not so much the material it's made from. Same for electricity - points of high resistance such as tarnished connections will really screw up conductivity of the mod as a whole. Stainless has a lot going for it really.
I could go on, but this is too long already.
I hope you get my point - it's fashion, not function that makes one mod much more expensive than another.
How else to explain the hunger for items such as the Glas. Is it really superior to a workhorse, or a workman grade from Super T?
The demand is there for a tube that can be thought of as superior to any other tube, and that demand is met by manufacturers.
Superiority is conferred by better finish, or bling - rarely is thought given to a better electrical pathway for the current, as most customers do not have much grasp of electrical theory. This applies to most manufacturers too, as can be seen with switch design. On a mechanical mod, the switch reduces to a sliding contact. Resistance of this contact will be proportional to the area of the sliding contact patch. Bigger area is better.
How many designs attempt to maximise this?
Then there is oxidation/tarnishing of connections, and choice of metal for your mod.
People like copper mods, given that copper is much more conductive than stainless steel. This is countered by the fact that copper tarnishes, so screw threads, and all areas of contact between one bit of metal and the next, will become bottlenecks for the current as the oxidation/tarnishing takes hold and gets worse. Metal oxides do not conduct electricity at all well, if at all.
An example - a chain is as strong as it's weakest link, not so much the material it's made from. Same for electricity - points of high resistance such as tarnished connections will really screw up conductivity of the mod as a whole. Stainless has a lot going for it really.
I could go on, but this is too long already.
I hope you get my point - it's fashion, not function that makes one mod much more expensive than another.
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I think you might be right. The other day on my way from work, I was drifting off a bit with the buttery smooth ride of my Rolls Royce Phantom. I hadn't even realized the car had stopped when my driver Woodford opened the door and the sunlight broke through my virtual bliss. I got out of the car and as I wait for Woodford to close it I noticed a young man, by the looks of it a hipster, walking by roguishly sucking on a Nemesis clone mod. I decided to warmly reach out to one of my fellow vaping brethren with the usual greeting of a "Tip 'o' the mod do you" forgetting I was proudly waving my $3,000 Otto Carter Engraved Brass Steampunk Mod at him. My gesture of solidarity was for naught. He waived back, first joyfully then envy and jealousy took control of his eyes as he stared at my glorious, hand carved rod of wonder. I felt bigger, more substantial in the presence of his vaping smallness - even his atomizer was a reproduction and he was probably forced to vape the bathtub hooch equivalent of eliquids - DIY
:shiver:: can these poor plebs afford so little they have to "Make" their own e-liquid?) Then I felt sadness thinking of this poor lad - this young lad would never know the pleasure of small batch hand crafted Parisian $300 a ml ejuice. Sigh. I entered The Union Club and retired to the vaping room to contemplate the elitism in the vaping world. I was deep in though when Reginald, the clubs vape Sommelier brought me a sample of a very rare $1200 a ml vape juice - a chardonnay raspberry processed through even rarer Bolivian bat guango and then aged for 10 years in crystal casks and I thought of the hipster and laughed to myself about him, "Get a real job!"
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No, it wasn't a joke.
Yes, I'm artistic, and understand most people aren't. However, I would have been happy to help them create a different design.
I think you might be right. The other day on my way from work, I was drifting off a bit with the buttery smooth ride of my Rolls Royce Phantom. I hadn't even realized the car had stopped when my driver Woodford opened the door and the sunlight broke through my virtual bliss. I got out of the car and as I wait for Woodford to close it I noticed a young man, by the looks of it a hipster, walking by roguishly sucking on a Nemesis clone mod. I decided to warmly reach out to one of my fellow vaping brethren with the usual greeting of a "Tip 'o' the mod do you" forgetting I was proudly waving my $3,000 Otto Carter Engraved Brass Steampunk Mod at him. My gesture of solidarity was for naught. He waived back, first joyfully then envy and jealousy took control of his eyes as he stared at my glorious, hand carved rod of wonder. I felt bigger, more substantial in the presence of his vaping smallness - even his atomizer was a reproduction and he was probably forced to vape the bathtub hooch equivalent of eliquids - DIY
Did laugh... several times. Bravo.
Counterfeit...
Counterfeit - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Notice the intent to deceive.
Intent
Intent - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Now here is where it gets tricky. The clones makers are not intending to deceive. Unless one is entirely stupid and really think they are getting a 200.00+ battery tube for 20 bucks. Being stupid is not a defense in the courts. That is where a reasonable test is made.
Take Atmomixani for example. Anne Stokes could sue them ripping of her artwork, unless of course she agreed to it.
So, do you understand why you are/were angry?
I mean for example in the sense of, nobody did anything to you, so there's nothing to be angry about.
You did something, and apparently other people thought it was a good idea, and decided to do the same thing;
now, I imagine for some people, they'd feel good about that.
Then there's some people, yourself included, who get angered by that: I have two questions about that:
1: Do you know why you are angry?
2: If so, then why are you angry?
Now if one of them lied and said they did it first, not you, then yeah, that might be something to get angry about, because they'd be lying about you.
I think it's a disservice on the topic of couterfieting to bring up 'artwork' in the case of nemesis styled mods, when you have a proliferation of "Nemesis styled mods" with the Atmomixani name on the bottom cap, a BLATANT Trademark issue.
The question of 'intent' comes up in that case when dealing with manufacturers who speak and write a completely different language who might not distinguish between operational markings, decorative patterns, logos, and trademarks. The intent question in that case only affects whether there is punitive action; the trademark violation still has to stop.
I think it's a disservice on the topic of couterfieting to bring up 'artwork' in the case of nemesis styled mods, when you have a proliferation of "Nemesis styled mods" with the Atmomixani name on the bottom cap, a BLATANT Trademark issue.
The question of 'intent' comes up in that case when dealing with manufacturers who speak and write a completely different language who might not distinguish between operational markings, decorative patterns, logos, and trademarks. The intent question in that case only affects whether there is punitive action; the trademark violation still has to stop.
I don't think it is a disservice. Frankly, a high number of the "original" makers should be sued for ripping off another's. The are all the same more or less. Besides if the death angel (or whatever maker we want to discuss) was not on the cloned pieces then we would not be having this conversation, so I am not sure how one can dismiss it.
It can only be a trademark issue if the design has been trademarked.
Personally I like my nemy clones. I think the "artwork" is ugly and have sanded it off each of them.
You cannot have a counterfeit without intent. Similar to fraud. No intent.. no counterfeit, no fraud. It is plain as simple. The difficult issue would be to prove intent. You may have some other infringement, but not a counterfeit. Besides the original meaning of the law was to protect the consumer from being ripped off.
They can try, but it won't get the anywhere.
Look at the major brands. Nike, Burberry, Chanel, Louis Vuitton, Hermes, heck China even cloned a Ferrari.
So you're telling me multi million/billion dollar corporations haven't tried? Yes they have tried, maybe not Ferrari but it gets them no where.
How much do these authentic mod companies make?
Look at the major brands. Nike, Burberry, Chanel, Louis Vuitton, Hermes, heck China even cloned a Ferrari.
So you're telling me multi million/billion dollar corporations haven't tried? Yes they have tried, maybe not Ferrari but it gets them no where.
How much do these authentic mod companies make?
1:
Did you also sand off the "Atmomixani" at the bottom or does yours not have that?
2:
Don't you think having "Atmomixani" engraved on the bottom is not a trademark issue?
1) Yes, I did. They are relatively easy to sand. Took me around 3 hours on the brass one. The train on that one looks like the Tillie. My SS was harder.
2) Yes, I do. Unless of course the rumors are true and he/she farmed them out to China.
One of the things that get me on the Fasttech forums is the amount of people that need to have the "logo" "name" or a 1:1.
BTW this only pertains to US business law. I might also add the courts seem to be much more liberal in their judgements. Too much emotion in the courts these days. Emotions play no role in being "neutral".
Considering this is an emerging market there are other things I see going wrong in the industry. Price fixing is a concern as well.
It's all fine and dandy until someone "clones" something you actually created. So long as they save us money we can pretty much justify anything done to others.
That is what the courts are for and not the court of public opinion.
I have probably 15 authentic mods. My two favorites are the vapor shark rDNA and the Doomsday mod. The vs is probably the cheapest genuine evolv DNA 30 at $189 and the doomsday is a $100 mech. It is outstanding in every way....blows my more expensive stuff out of the water.
I have many authentic attys. I've been a fan of the kayfun since they came out. All of mine (6) are authentic. I don't regret buying them at all. However the Lemo performs waaay better than a kayfun. Its $33. Not a clone.
There's options. I use clones and authentic. I think the mod makers should charge whatever they want to for their products. I also think vapers should buy whatever they want to vape with. We shouldn't look down our noses to anyone except cloud chasers. Hahaha...kidding.
I have many authentic attys. I've been a fan of the kayfun since they came out. All of mine (6) are authentic. I don't regret buying them at all. However the Lemo performs waaay better than a kayfun. Its $33. Not a clone.
There's options. I use clones and authentic. I think the mod makers should charge whatever they want to for their products. I also think vapers should buy whatever they want to vape with. We shouldn't look down our noses to anyone except cloud chasers. Hahaha...kidding.
Throw in a slobbering nicotine addiction and you have it covered from all angles.
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