Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

[Midniteoyl]

Circa you love to wear the Martyr hat! I have been on this thread forever and I still have yet to read where anyone has accused clone buyers of being gutter scum.

Maybe not 'gutter scum', but close to it...

 

[samcm010]

Maybe not 'gutter scum', but close to it...

Actually I believe the posts were confirmed to accuse the Chinese Manufacturers of being scum. And I believe the very limited extreme quotes were sent from both ends.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Actually I believe the posts were confirmed to accuse the Chinese Manufacturers of being scum. And I believe the very limited extreme quotes were sent from both ends.

Ya.. didnt make it that far in the thread...

But, are thieves 'gutter scum'? Because it was implied we are, indeed, thieves.

 

[retird]

Nobody. I don't think there really can be a winner when it comes to this. BUT we clone buyers are gutter scum and the people who buy authentics are the saviors of the American working man and will walk with Jesus when their time comes.

Circa you love to wear the Martyr hat! I have been on this thread forever and I still have yet to read where anyone has accused clone buyers of being gutter scum.

Or anything even close to gutter scum in case you argue those words were not used exactly

Maybe not 'gutter scum', but close to it...

Here are the original posts here where the poster used the words gutter scum...in order of the post... pretty easy to see where it came from....

 

[stevegmu]

Judging from your insane elitism your response is what I would have expected.

I still don't understand how buying something which doesn't have a stolen name/design is elitism...

 

[retird]

Plain and simple, cloning 1:1 and using another's logos and trademarks is theft. Theft of intellectual property, and theft of profits.

If you want something that somebody makes, and feel that the price they're charging is too high, neither you or anyone else, have the right to make and sell that that exact product, without express consent of the original designer/manufacturer. If someone thinks the prices are too high, then don't buy it. Simple rules of supply and demand.

So say otherwise, is ludicrous. To believe otherwise is nothing more than satisfaction of misguided desires. It's time to quit justifying unadulterated theft because you can't afford it, or don't find value in the OEM price.

I hope the Authentic modders crush the thieving clone makers.

So again, calling clone buyers thieves.. Or, at the very least, aiding and abetting crime..

A theft cannot be made until ownership is proven. If these companies do not have a patent/trademark/copyright on file (or pending/started) there is no way to prove ownership. I was thinking about this last night. It is similar to insurance. We buy insurance to protect or assets in case something happens to them. The inventors patent/trademark/copyright their "insert whatever" to protect them. It is like they do not want to purchase the insurance yet reap all the benefits.

Some spoke of moral and ethical obligations. Aren't these companies just foregoing the same moral/ethical obligation that they speak of.

Patents and trademarks have been infringed by the china scum-bag companies and cloned very badly I might add.... kinda like thieves..... they would rather steal from hard working Americans rather that get a real job....

Ya.. didnt make it that far in the thread...

But, are thieves 'gutter scum'? Because it was implied we are, indeed, thieves.

Here are the original posts here where the poster used the words thief, theft, or thieves...... pretty easy to see where it came from....

 

[samcm010]

Ya.. didnt make it that far in the thread...

But, are thieves 'gutter scum'? Because it was implied we are, indeed, thieves.

Nope it was not even implied in any thread by anyone on here that the buyers of Clones were thieves and in my case I clearly stated that the Cloners were thieves not buyers. see above post for clearly laid out posts and the statements.

 

[snork]

Judging from your insane elitism your response is what I would have expected.

It has been very nice how Maurice has always kept his polite demeanor while people call him names and make fun of how he signs his posts. A pretty class act.

 

[samcm010]

It has been very nice how Maurice has always kept his polite demeanor while people call him names and make fun of how he signs his posts. A pretty class act.

Yeah I agree.. Not to try and stir the pot but the name calling and "your an elitist" posts have primarily come from the pro clone crowd.

 

[tearose50]

That didnt really answer it though.. If I buy something that I know is a counterfeit/clone/knockoff and try to resell it as the real thing, that could and most likely is, illegal. If I sell it as a counterfeit/clone/knockoff, then its not.

What I was responding to in the post you quoted, was the opinion of ECF. And, that ECF has every right to post their opinion and make the rule since its a private forum.

:

If the article didn't answer all your questions in the subject I suggest you do further research. I also have no clue what "it" you are referring to.

I might have a hint though --- Ignorance is no excuse when it comes to law.

Btw, the discussion at that time was about the legality of selling counterfeits, not the selling of knock/offs or clones.

 

[samcm010]

:

If the article didn't answer all your questions in the subject I suggest you do further research. I also have no clue what "it" you are referring to.

I might have a hint though --- Ignorance is no excuse when it comes to law.

Btw, the discussion at that time was about the legality of selling counterfeits, not the selling of knock/offs or clones.

Not to disagree but I think the original discussion was about whether the original modders were ripping people off with their prices and whether they had a leg to stand on in suing the cloners. I could be wrong but that is how I read OP

 

[samcm010]

:

If the article didn't answer all your questions in the subject I suggest you do further research. I also have no clue what "it" you are referring to.

I might have a hint though --- Ignorance is no excuse when it comes to law.

Btw, the discussion at that time was about the legality of selling counterfeits, not the selling of knock/offs or clones.

That being said I think you and I see eye to eye on the topic

 

[tearose50]

Not to disagree but I think the original discussion was about whether the original modders were ripping people off with their prices and whether they had a leg to stand on in suing the cloners. I could be wrong but that is how I read OP

That is the topic from the OP -- but not at the time of my and Mr. Oyl's original posts that were all quoted. Mr. Oyl has continued to ask me for further clarifications.

 

[Jman8]

Yeah I agree.. Not to try and stir the pot but the name calling and "your an elitist" posts have primarily come from the pro clone crowd.

I actually think there is a little bit of elitism coming from the pro-authentic crowd. But also some coming from the pro-clone crowd. I would say more coming from the pro-clone crowd, but that would be a lot of reviewing and until that happens, I'm sure biases will be such that says one side has been doing it more than the other.

In OP, it reads:

generally the comments say how multi-billion dollar companies like Rolex and Nike ext haven't been able to stop china clones. but these butthurt ...... think they are gonna make a difference legally instead of doing things like outsourcing to china's factory's and getting the product made cheaper with just as good if not better quality and in turn make it pointless to buy a clone over an authentic. Beyondvape wised up and is doing this.

So, the elitist claim, that I'm making for the pro-clone crowd comes in the form of:
- you are not going to stop cloning (therefore cloners/clone buyers have the upper hand on this topic)
- wise choice is to outsource to China (based on the first point and supported by example provided)
- people who disagree with this are really just "butthurt ......" (or lesser than us who have figured out the correct way to view this topic)

Also from OP:

you can make "Authentic" mods for about $25 each yet these manufacturers/retailers charge $150 - $500

This variation has been repeated in various ways on this thread. "It's just a tube with a switch." These 'greedy' manufacturers are doing nothing special, or so the argument goes. When asked "why aren't you, who supports this position, making your own for $25," I think the elitism comes out. And again stems from idea that cloning isn't going to stop (therefore cloners/clone buyers have the superior position on this topic).

Also from OP:

its 100% obvious these authentic makers were never in it to save lives or help anybody only to line their own pockets.

It's obvious these authentic makers don't have the same values and morals like us good people do. 'They' are greedy, not us.

And punctuated with this nice little friendly bit of advice from OP:

unless your an authentic maker in which case GOOD! hope you get[Moderated] by your lawyers who know its a losing battle and just want your money, hope you lose everything!

With all that said, and like I've said before, I do think the pro-clone crowd has the superior position from a practical perspective. From the ethical perspective, I think the jury is still out and I know which way I lean, but is relative to world where vaping is not regulated, free market appears to be in play, and if similar thing were occurring with whatever work we each are up to, I believe it would change the discourse. If it's another person's livelihood that is at stake, then tough tooties for them. But if it's one's own livelihood that is at stake, I believe people would be crying foul, and rethink how they use the terms 'greed' when it comes to such discussions.

 

[samcm010]

I actually think there is a little bit of elitism coming from the pro-authentic crowd. But also some coming from the pro-clone crowd. I would say more coming from the pro-clone crowd, but that would be a lot of reviewing and until that happens, I'm sure biases will be such that says one side has been doing it more than the other.

In OP, it reads:



So, the elitist claim, that I'm making for the pro-clone crowd comes in the form of:
- you are not going to stop cloning (therefore cloners/clone buyers have the upper hand on this topic)
- wise choice is to outsource to China (based on the first point and supported by example provided)
- people who disagree with this are really just "butthurt ......" (or lesser than us who have figured out the correct way to view this topic)

Also from OP:



This variation has been repeated in various ways on this thread. "It's just a tube with a switch." These 'greedy' manufacturers are doing nothing special, or so the argument goes. When asked "why aren't you, who supports this position, making your own for $25," I think the elitism comes out. And again stems from idea that cloning isn't going to stop (therefore cloners/clone buyers have the superior position on this topic).

Also from OP:



It's obvious these authentic makers don't have the same values and morals like us good people do. 'They' are greedy, not us.

And punctuated with this nice little friendly bit of advice from OP:



With all that said, and like I've said before, I do think the pro-clone crowd has the superior position from a practical perspective. From the ethical perspective, I think the jury is still out and I know which way I lean, but is relative to world where vaping is not regulated, free market appears to be in play, and if similar thing were occurring with whatever work we each are up to, I believe it would change the discourse. If it's another person's livelihood that is at stake, then tough tooties for them. But if it's one's own livelihood that is at stake, I believe people would be crying foul, and rethink how they use the terms 'greed' when it comes to such discussions.

Well said!!!

 

[Midniteoyl]

Here are the original posts here where the poster used the words thief, theft, or thieves...... pretty easy to see where it came from....

You missed a few...

Whats your point? The first post, and there is, I believe, another, pointing out that clone buyers are thieves... I called him on it. So, again, point?

Or do we have to do a thread search for every single post here and repost them?

 

[Kendogalopigus]

@Jman8

well thank you for assuming im some kind of messiah for the "pro-clone movement" lol. what i said in the OP was my opinion i do not and have never claimed to speak for anyone.

and if you even read the thread i have said twice i have been thinking of having friends of mine with access to the machines make one for me.

have also said how i bought my first authentic atty and plan to buy authentic mods that are near or below $100, so not sure how this makes me the messiah of the pro clone movement but thank you for thinking so highly of me lol.

and not sure how im elitist by stating facts, multi billion dollar company's haven't stopped it what makes them think they have the clout? this question is not rhetorical.

IMO the most elitism is coming from the pro authentic people that were saying how clones devalue their authentic when they are advertised as clones not authentics.

 

[Midniteoyl]

:

If the article didn't answer all your questions in the subject I suggest you do further research. I also have no clue what "it" you are referring to.

I might have a hint though --- Ignorance is no excuse when it comes to law.

Btw, the discussion at that time was about the legality of selling counterfeits, not the selling of knock/offs or clones.

/ignore... I've explained it.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Not to disagree but I think the original discussion was about whether the original modders were ripping people off with their prices and whether they had a leg to stand on in suing the cloners. I could be wrong but that is how I read OP

Thank you... I have been trying to stay on that topic, but its hard when people keep throwing irrelevant or wrong stuff in

 

[Midniteoyl]

That being said I think you and I see eye to eye on the topic

Show the law, please. If that was the case, we have a whole lotta vapers going to jail.