Bans, bans, bans!

[Steamix]

Picture an army on ANTZ, marching - full of righteousness and other things - oh so sure they' fighting the good fight for a noble cause - towrds the postions of the embattled and entrenched smokers. Upon storming the trenches - willing to sacrifice themselves - they gain the stronghold of the smokers. Only to find a placard haphazardly pasted to the bunker wall : Gone vaping - won't be back anytime soon.

For them, a world will crumble, a raison d'etre disappear...

Oh yeah, and tons of money too...

They need us ( smokers ) , but we don't need smokes anymore...

 

[stevegmu]

Really? Big tobacco has a chair on the TPSAC board? That's news to me...

 

[emus]

As my comrades said. Follow the money.
It is quite obvious ALA mission statement about striving to improve lung health is false.
Can you say disgusting.

 

[mostlyclassics]

The Tobacco Master Settlement provided that, if the cigarette companies ponied up about a quarter trillion (that's "trillion" with a "tr"), Congress would make them immune from smokers' lawsuits. That money was distributed to the states, who were supposed to farm it out for various tobacco education and quit-smoking programs. (Most of that money wound up in the states' general revenues and was used for other purposes, but that's another story.) That initial quartert-trillion downstroke is long gone.

Some of the states did give funds to people like the state-level organizations of the American Lung Association and various other organizations.

Now, here's what's really ugly. The other major provision of the Master Tobacco Settlement was that the cigarette companies would continue to pay roughly 30¢ per pack of cigarettes manufactured. And the state governments plus, especially, all those organizations have become dependent on that 30¢ per pack that Big Tobacco chucks into the kitty each and every day.

vaping is not subject to the Tobacco Master Settlement. So, every person who goes from smoking cigarettes to vaping is depriving the states and those supposedly beneficial organizations from the funds they need to continue.

Consequently, the ALA, the ACS and a host of other organizations will go out of business. Thus they lie so they can keep going.

I find them ethically and morally repugnant.

 

[beckdg]

Really? Big Tobacco has a chair on the TPSAC board? That's news to me...

These members shall include one representative of the tobacco manufacturing industry, one representative of the interests of tobacco growers, and one representative of the interests of the small business tobacco manufacturing industry.

source... Tobacco Products Scientific Advisory Committee

 

[stevegmu]

source... Tobacco Products Scientific Advisory Committee

They are non voting members, just advisors...

The Committee shall consist of 12 members including the Chair. Members and the Chair are selected by the Commissioner or designee from among individuals knowledgeable in the fields of medicine, medical ethics, science, or technology involving the manufacture, evaluation, or use of tobacco products. Members will be invited to serve for overlapping terms of up to fours years. Almost all non-Federal members of this committee serve as Special Government Employees. The Committee shall include nine technically qualified voting members, selected by the Commissioner or designee. The nine voting members shall be physicians, dentists, scientists, or health care professionals practicing in the area of oncology, pulmonology, cardiology, toxicology, pharmacology, addiction, or any other relevant specialty. One member shall be an officer or employee of a state or local government or of the Federal Government. The final voting member shall be a representative of the general public. In addition to the voting members, the Committee shall include 3 non-voting members who are identified with industry interests. These members shall include one representative of the tobacco manufacturing industry, one representative of the interests of tobacco growers, and one representative of the interests of the small business tobacco manufacturing industry.

 

[beckdg]

They are non voting members, just advisors...

with influence. they are still 1/4 of the board. just the 1/4 without votes.

 

[Stosh]

Really? Big Tobacco has a chair on the TPSAC board? That's news to me...

They are non voting members, just advisors...

with influence. they are still 1/4 of the board. just the 1/4 without votes.

So replacing them with CASAA members would have not effect....

 

[CommaHolly]

Bans? Haven't heard of any in the US. Prohibitions on usage where smoking is prohibited? Get used to it. It's coming virtually everywhere in the US. Doesn't make a difference to me whether or not I can vape at Target, or not. I wouldn't either way...

when one person was vaping in Target, it's one thing,,,,,,,

the more popular these things get, the more "banned" they will be,,,,,,,

we wanted them to be popular,,,,,,we wanted smokers to vape,,,,well now they are,,,,,,,and that means a ton more vapers vaping in Target,,,,,,

and THAT means people will complain.l

 

[beckdg]

So replacing them with CASAA members would have not effect....

i highly doubt that. i imagine simply the conversation had by replacing tobacco folks with casaa folks would change a few points in the whole thought process going into determining the fate and how it's handled.

though, that's not where my mindset is concerning BT even being there at all. i tend to think with unlimited money and an agenda they're willing to fight for, they'd have better chances buying more votes than they can cast. i sincerely hope i'm wrong.

 

[John1016]

Bans? Haven't heard of any in the US. Prohibitions on usage where smoking is prohibited? Get used to it. It's coming virtually everywhere in the US. Doesn't make a difference to me whether or not I can vape at Target, or not. I wouldn't either way...

So it is totally fine if they say you can't vape at a concert, in a public park or in your car with the windows open if you have kids? When in reality they have no reason to do so, I have coworkers that stink of perfume/cologne/oil that make me dizzy and want to throw up being around them. I breath in metal and paper dust every day I go to work, vaping is not as bad as real life. People lust need to wake up and see it instead of just being lemmings. Not caring about and protesting banns is no different the just bending over for big tobacco.

 

[Rickb119]

It's just one more temperature increase for us frogs in the water.

 

[stevegmu]

So it is totally fine if they say you can't vape at a concert, in a public park or in your car with the windows open if you have kids? Not caring about and protesting banns is no different the just bending over for big tobacco.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. I wouldn't vape in front of children, either way...
Big Tobacco has nothing to do with prohibitions...

 

[stevegmu]

So replacing them with CASAA members would have not effect....

That would make things far worse, in my opinion...

 

[John1016]

Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. I wouldn't vape in front of children, either way...
Big Tobacco has nothing to do with prohibitions...

After the bans come the taxes, and with all that the people that assume vaping must be bad if it is banned and taxed. I wouldn't vape in an enclosed place with children around either, it's just common courtesy. But does that make it fine for people that are mad that they aren't getting your money anymore to control that aspect of your life?

 

[stevegmu]

After the bans come the taxes, and with all that the people that assume vaping must be bad if it is banned and taxed. I wouldn't vape in an enclosed place with children around either, it's just common courtesy. But does that make it fine for people that are mad that they aren't getting your money anymore to control that aspect of your life?

I don't fall for the fear mongering and boogeyman hype.

 

[CKCalmer]

Twenty years ago, I'd have considered "big tobacco money paying to keep smoking alternatives down" to be nothing more than a conspiracy theory. Since then, I've become wiser and learned that money is, indeed, everything in politics.

Just consider the power wielded by the Ways & Means Committee in the U.S. House of Representatives. They are the members of Congress who write the bulk of the tax laws and decide the how/when/where of government spending. They are arguably the most powerful committee in Congress, and considering the reach that the American economy has on the rest of the world, one of the most powerful government bodies on Earth.

Let's say you want to create a law that Ways & Means doesn't like. Even if your law is passed by both houses of Congress and signed by the President, Ways & Means will simply never fund it. Your law will die before it even begins. No other Congressional body has that kind of power.

Big tobacco has a LOT of money. Accordingly, their lobbyists are among the most powerful in Washington. And contrary to what the Beatles said, money can buy you love. The love of a Congressman or Senator, that is. And not just one of them, but many. However many are needed to impose the will of Big Tobacco upon the country.

The same is true at the state level, as well. Each and every state has its own Ways & Means Committee, and in turn, its own über-powerful lobbyists who hold the same level of control as the ones at the federal level.

So, as you can see ... He who controls the spice money controls the universe!

We can't beat Big Tobacco with money, because (at least in the short term,) vaping advocacy will not even come close to having as much as they do. The best strategy I can think of right now is education and visibility. I do hope some better ones will come along soon, though, before it's too late...

 

[stevegmu]

I must be the only one who has actually looked at the tobacco lobbying and political donation statistics...

 

[grandmato5]

Many of the bans are all about, "if it looks like smoking it MUST be banned". Those opposed don't care about "genuine" health risk because if they did they would be supporters of vaping. Some of the bans are about $$$. The pharmaceutical industry has a LOT to loose if vaping continues to grow. Then of coarse there is the tax issue Cigarettes generate LOTS of money for budgets, if that money is lost its going to have to made up somewhere.

 

[beckdg]

I must be the only one who has actually looked at the tobacco lobbying and political donation statistics...

nope. i just don't believe that folks that have something that important to hide are going to make everything so... transparent. if i were buying someone's vote for my industry to keep thriving, i know for a fact it wouldn't be on the books. how about you? would you rather have the bad press if you had enough money for millions of dollars to slide under the carpet?