Bans, bans, bans!

[Mousey]

Really? Can you provide proof of this? Political donations are a matter of public record, so are registered lobbyists. Odd how so many anti-smoking laws have been passed over the last decade...
You do know increased taxes on tobacco products has reduced revenue, right?

Here, I'll provide the proof-

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=A02

Well I don't know about you but I see a pretty direct correlation between tobacco revenue falling and anti vaping laws getting more aggressive

Sent from a cloud of ZMax vapour using Tapatalk

 

[Tempesta]

This is one situation where the conspiracy theorists might have a point. A lot of different interests seem to be involved here: the ANTZ, the pharma companies, Big Tobacco, and so on. They have resources to put out misinformation and outright lies, and the BIg Lie has always worked, because it SOUNDS logical. Education, on the other hand, proceeds one person at a time, but that seems to be the only thing we can do without big budgets.

 

[EddardinWinter]

This is one situation where the conspiracy theorists might have a point. A lot of different interests seem to be involved here: the ANTZ, the pharma companies, Big Tobacco, and so on. They have resources to put out misinformation and outright lies, and the BIg Lie has always worked, because it SOUNDS logical. Education, on the other hand, proceeds one person at a time, but that seems to be the only thing we can do without big budgets.

Indeed, the language and tactics used by the ANTZ in orchestrating government bans is what lends itself to conspiracy theorists so well...


When asked the question, "Why are you proposing an indoor ban on e-cigs, Senator Snort?"

The answers always fall into one or more of the four categories below:

"To protect the children/they are targeting children with the candy flavors"
"It looks like smoking"
"It hasn't been proven safe/demonize nicotine"
"It isn't FDA approved/Wild West"

Now the first one is fraught with intellectual flaws and fundamental distortions....but it is quite effective. When you couple this with the fact that the ALA and other "pro health" organizations routinely oppose bans for minors that aren't accompanied by indoor bans that equate vaping with traditional cigarettes, it appears to be conspiratorial. The health organizations doing the dirty work for BP and BT is a simple explanation. Why would they oppose it? They will tell you, invariably, that it "doesn't go far enough". WHAT? The flavor thing is just insulting. As if adults don't enjoy flavor...ugh.

The second is basically an admission that there is no actual harm that has been established. They resort to "sends the wrong message" crap. This is generally tied to children, too, and when it is done in this fashion, you have an emotional appeal designed to frighten people.

The third premise for a ban, the "not proven safe" part is patently absurd. No product can be proven safe. Think aspartame and Chantix. Nicotine is routinely called a carcinogen (false), a dangerous toxin (only conditionally true, mostly false), or its addictive properties are exaggerated (the most honest of the three). All of them smell like a hustle though.

Lastly, the "not FDA approved/wild west" hogwash. The FDA has failed to issue deeming regulations, ignoring its own deadlines time and time again, leaving the product unregulated. Is this the fault of the industry?? The FDA will never approve their use, nor do they seem eager to issue regulations. Why?

So a bunch of bad actors, using a handful of dirty tricks, are making a case against property owners deciding for themselves whether or not to allow vaping. The players are:

FDA
CDC
ALA
AHA
Big Pharmaceutical
The Media
Politicians

So when these "independant" groups use the same tactics, and even seem to employ the exact same language, and do so towards a common goal...is it really so far fetched to call it a conspiracy? Even if it isn't, it sure looks like one, doesn't it?

 

[Gato del Jugo]

I must be the only one who has actually looked at the tobacco lobbying and political donation statistics...

And you believe everything is actually reported??

 

[BigEgo]

Twenty years ago, I'd have considered "big tobacco money paying to keep smoking alternatives down" to be nothing more than a conspiracy theory. Since then, I've become wiser and learned that money is, indeed, everything in politics.

Just consider the power wielded by the Ways & Means Committee in the U.S. House of Representatives. They are the members of Congress who write the bulk of the tax laws and decide the how/when/where of government spending. They are arguably the most powerful committee in Congress, and considering the reach that the American economy has on the rest of the world, one of the most powerful government bodies on Earth.

I would consider them the second most powerful goverment body on earth. The first would be the Intelligence Committee (House and Senate) sometimes called the "gang of eight." Along with the president, they are the eight most powerful people in the world because they have access to the most information (info = power). Ways and means would be a close second, though.

 

[stevegmu]

And you believe everything is actually reported??

Oh, back to conspiracies and bags full of money exchanging hands...

 

[CNYC]

Bans of any kind are a horrible thing. Compromise is true democracy.

I come from NYC which is where IMO the BAN CULTURE started. When the City Council announced the smoking ban years ago I was floored. WHY ? I knew that it would be a foot in the door for all sorts of bans to come.

Unfortunately I have yet to be proven wrong.

The Govt is a smart animal. They *started with smoking (who wouldn't agree to better health..right ?) then they went to trans fat and salt. Afterwards they wanted the soda and other nanny state type bans/laws. The cat is out of the bag and you will see this grow and grow. The world according to a few people

A BAN is the new way to pass a law without going through the necessary channels. The Govt. Is telling you that you are too dumb to think for yourself and Americans are just bending over. SAD

When Americans supported the smoking ban they gave up their rights. It was a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Obama Care...if and when it really goes through all the way will be the ultimate kick in the A. Hopefully it falls apart before it happens.

 

[choochoogranny]

Here in Tennessee two bills, one in the House and one in the Senate, were recently killed.

The bills would have put e-cigarettes, equipment, liquids and anything to do with vaping in a different category than tobacco. Why did the Senator and Representative who were educated on the facts of vaping pull their bills. RJ Reynolds and the American Cancer Society exerted a great deal of pressure we were told by their offices.

How can these two leaders in our TN government do that when these two entities don't vote? What deals were made......for how much.....what for......in the interest of whom?

I've lived long enough to experience the creeping enrouchment of any and all governments in our lives. Tell me, who/what do you turn to when something really bad happens ...........and it's the government?

 

[wv2win]

Bans? Haven't heard of any in the US. Prohibitions on usage where smoking is prohibited? Get used to it. It's coming virtually everywhere in the US. Doesn't make a difference to me whether or not I can vape at Target, or not. I wouldn't either way...

There are increasing bans as to where people can vape which leads to additional bans and taxes on vaping at the level of analogs. Vapers who support these bans and increased taxes both actively and through inaction are loved by ANTZ's groups. Both active and passive support by vapers for vaping bans that mirror smoking bans, which include parks, at the beach and in common wall homes are bigger fools than those in the ANTZ groups.

 

[wv2win]

Really? Big Tobacco has a chair on the TPSAC board? That's news to me...

source... Tobacco Products Scientific Advisory Committee

Too funny and well played, beckdg.

 

[wv2win]

So it is totally fine if they say you can't vape at a concert, in a public park or in your car with the windows open if you have kids?......................

Yeah, I don't have a problem with that.....................

And that is why vapers who have no problem with these bans, along with the ANTZ, are part of the problem. Fortunately most of us do not support and actually fight against excessive taxes and bans on vaping, that deem vaping as equivalent to smoking, unlike you.

 

[wv2win]

Oh, back to conspiracies and bags full of money exchanging hands...

Here in Tennessee two bills, one in the House and one in the Senate, were recently killed.

The bills would have put e-cigarettes, equipment, liquids and anything to do with vaping in a different category than tobacco. Why did the Senator and Representative who were educated on the facts of vaping pull their bills. RJ Reynolds and the American Cancer Society exerted a great deal of pressure we were told by their offices.

How can these two leaders in our TN government do that when these two entities don't vote? What deals were made......for how much.....what for......in the interest of whom?

I've lived long enough to experience the creeping enrouchment of any and all governments in our lives. Tell me, who/what do you turn to when something really bad happens ...........and it's the government?

Excellent point, choo. It is rarely about "bags of money" exchanging hands. It is about suggestions (threats) that when a politician has to run for office, their competitor will be well funded to oppose them.

 

[TyPie]

Ecigs turn smokers into ex-smokers. Ex-smokers do not pay sin taxes, which governments -- federal, state, and local -- have come to rely on to fund essential (unrelated to smoking) programs, NON-ESSENTIAL GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS, AND LINE THE POCKETS OF COOPERATIVE POLITICIANS AND GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS.

Ex-smokers who stopped smoking without buying pharmaceutical company NRT products mean pharma companies are losing profits.

Tobacco Control would not exist without smokers and the sin taxes they pay.

It's always about money.

There AgentAnia, I fixed that up a little for ya.......lol.

 

[TyPie]

Ecigs turn smokers into ex-smokers. Ex-smokers do not pay sin taxes, which governments -- federal, state, and local -- have come to rely on to fund essential (unrelated to smoking) programs, NON-ESSENTIAL GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS, AND LINE THE POCKETS OF COOPERATIVE POLITICIANS AND GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS.

Ex-smokers who stopped smoking without buying pharmaceutical company NRT products mean pharma companies are losing profits.

Tobacco Control would not exist without smokers and the sin taxes they pay.

It's always about money.

There AgentAnia, I fixed that up a little for ya.......lol.

 

[stevegmu]

There are increasing bans as to where people can vape which leads to additional bans and taxes on vaping at the level of analogs. Vapers who support these bans and increased taxes both actively and through inaction are loved by ANTZ's groups. Both active and passive support by vapers for vaping bans that mirror smoking bans, which include parks, at the beach and in common wall homes are bigger fools than those in the ANTZ groups.

Referring to cigarettes as analogs and calling people ANTZ are why militant vapers are looked upon as no different then the Occupy types...

 

[leong jenny]

Feel so bad if the legislators ban vaping for getting the cigarette revenues.

 

[FireDragon1138]

Most politicians and even tobacco control types are ignorant of e-cigarettes. There's a confusion about what vaping is, and is not. Your average non-smoker thinks an e-cig is just like a regular cigarette except vaguely safer, when we all know there's a transition involved and its far more like quitting cigarettes altogether. Few smokers can jump right into e-cigs without having to adjust. I don't think the ANTZ understand this bit fully.

And there's a lot of lack of empathy for smokers, fallout from decades of anti-smoking propaganda. Helping smokers live healthier lives is not part of the picture- demonizing and eliminating smokers is.

Having said that, I think some e-cig bans are appropriate. I wouldn't want a cloud chaser in a doctor's office or at a school. But some are unreasonable. If someone wants to vape in their office at work, I don't see how it's really hurting anybody.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

Oh, back to conspiracies and bags full of money exchanging hands...

Entities can keep people in office -- or make sure they're not re-elected if they don't play along.. plenty of ways to accomplish that..


Those in the public sector also oftentimes voluntarily leave for the private sector -- where there's a job with a very generous paycheck waiting for them as their reward...


There are countless things.. Shall I continue?


It's not about literal bags full of money.. stop watching so many movies & TV

It's about "back-scratching" that happens in real-life...

 

[peep531]

I have the solution: ALL VENDORS NEED TO MOVE TO TEXAS> lol

The ban campaign is getting started here in Texas, and picking up steam in one small town after another. This was on Houston Channel 2 News last night:

Baytown proposes to restrict where you can use E-cigarettes | News - Home

 

[peep531]

I have the solution: ALL VENDORS NEED TO MOVE TO TEXAS> lol

The ban campaign is getting started here in Texas, and picking up steam in one small town after another. This was on Houston Channel 2 News last night:
Baytown proposes to restrict where you can use E-cigarettes | News - Home

peep