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Beginner MTL coil buid.

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by Shakur92, Sep 10, 2018.

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  1. Shakur92

    Shakur92 Full Member

    Aug 13, 2018
    Paris, France
    Hey everyone,

    So i’ve been vaping for about 2 months or so and i’d like to get into rebuildables.
    I only vape in MTL and i need some advices.

    I’ve been watching threads and vids here and there, but i’m still kinda lost beetween everything. I see spaced coils, micro coils, clapton ones.
    Then there’s the gauge, the different cotton and all.

    Basically i’d like to get beetween 0.8 and 1.6ohm coil.
    It can be khantal but i’d prefer SS to be able to use it in TC.
    So i’d like your advices on which wire to use, what gauge, the diameter of the coils, the number of wraps and maybe the type of cotton to buy.

    Also i saw people dry fire the coils or using ceramic tweezers to compress the coil, scratching and cleaning the coil and i’d like to know why and what i should do.

    I intend to use either an RTA or an RDA.
    I haven’t bought the device yet cause i wanted some recommendations about a good one for beginners and if you think i should buy either an RTA or an RDA to begin with.

    Thank you in advance for your time and answers, if you see any spelling mistakes don’t hesitate to tell me. Peace from France.
     
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  2. gandymarsh

    gandymarsh Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 11, 2014
    WI, USA
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  3. Shakur92

    Shakur92 Full Member

    Aug 13, 2018
    Paris, France
    Thank you. Just added this to my favorites on chrome.
     
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  4. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    A RDA (rebuildable drip atomizer) is more forgiving for wicking errors than many RTA (rebuildable tank atomizers). RTA's can be kind of tricky to wick properly in my experience.

    I'd recommend a Velocity style RDA. Lots of space to put coils in, a generous juice well for your wick, large holes in the posts for easier coil installation, great airflow options.

    [​IMG] Velocity clone RDA - $17.99

    [​IMG]

    26 or 28 gauge kanthal or stainless steel wire is pretty adaptable. You can't use kanthal with TC. If you wish to try TC, go with stainless steel wire. I make 3.0 mm diameter coils simply because they are easier to put the wick into. Use a coil calculator to determine how many wraps to use to get to a certain resistance (see gandymarsh's link to Steam Engine).

    For a beginner, make simple coils. KISS (Keep it simple, stupid). Doesn't matter if they are spaced or compressed, although I think compressed are more durable for multiple wicking changes. Once you've mastered simple coils, if you wish to advance on to more exotic builds, go for it.

    Explain it to the Dumb Noob: Ohm's Law Calculations for a Mechanical Mod
    Information Resources for Your First RBA
     
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  5. Shakur92

    Shakur92 Full Member

    Aug 13, 2018
    Paris, France
    Thx for the advice bro, i’ll take a look at that. I’m already trying a few combinations on the steam engine.
     
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  6. smoked25years

    smoked25years Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 8, 2018
    I just started using an RBA and from the beginning I use both 316L and TC, like you prefer. It was really easy.

    Pinching and strumming the coils is done to get rid of hot spots. Since you want to use 316L and TC, you won't need to do that. You will be using a spaced coil. You'll wrap your coil and then gently pull one lead to space it.

    Preferences vary so you will want to do some experimenting on your own. Some folks like a cool vape. Others prefer a warm vape. If you are a DTL vaper, then you will use tons of air flow. If you are MTL vaper, things will heat up as you close off the air flow so you might want to use thinner wire. 28 AWG wire cools down and heats up faster than 26 AWG wire. 30 AWG wire cools and heats up even faster. Etc.

    I started with a Galaxies RDTA, a Pico 75, and Temco 316L. Very easy to build on the Galaxies. TC is a cinch on the Pico. If you are a MTL vaper, I highly recommend both.
     
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  7. Shakur92

    Shakur92 Full Member

    Aug 13, 2018
    Paris, France
    Thank you for sharing these useful advices.

    I plan to use some Ss316, 30awg with a diameter of 3,00 aiming 1.2ohm,
    Ss316, 32awg, diameter 3,00 for 1.5 ohm or, ss316, 30awg, diameter 2,5 to get 1.00ohm.
    Will any of that work ?!

    I don’t mind using thinner wire but to get above 1.00 or 1.2 ohm takes a lot of wraps according to steam engine and i’m not sure i’d have enough space on the deck.

    For the tc i got a Smok Qbox that does it in SS, and i’m looking to get a Berserker MTL RDA cause i saw some good reviews about it.
    Peace.
     
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  8. Nikhforos

    Nikhforos Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 29, 2018
    Don't care too much about the Ohms, they don't matter as much as some people think. I do MTL on my berserker at 0.27 ohms. 18 watts. Brilliant. Just needs one puff or two to get it going first.
     
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  9. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Unless you are wanting to use TC something like a 28 or 26 Kanthal might be a good place to start, just simple round wire. I mostly use SS because I can vape it in wattage or TC mode and it's a relatively easy wire to maintain.

    I think for MTL vaping, especially, fancy builds and all that just aren't necessary, just work on building and installing simple builds, and I guess I'd say if you aren't already planning to, well single coil atomizers are an easier place to start. steam-engine.org should help a lot and if you have any questions about values to input, well, you can come here and ask.

    Good luck,

    Anna
     
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  10. Janusz

    Janusz Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 22, 2018
    Illinois, USA
    For start I would recommend 26 gauge (28 is too flimsy and easily distort when installing or wicking), 2.5mm diameter 6- 7 wraps, kanthal wire. Stainless Steel require more wraps and longer coil is more difficult to wick properly... shorter coils are more forgiving so there is less chance for dry hit. For start micro coil is also more sturdy and shorter. After mastering proper wicking you can experiment with different wires gauges etc... tailored to your chosen tank.
     
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  11. Janusz

    Janusz Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 22, 2018
    Illinois, USA
    IMHO ohms matter... I am getting satisfied vape only in range 0.5-0.9 ohms... higher ohms mute flavor in all of my tanks... lower than 0.5 ohm make my vape too harsh and hot and drain battery very fast...
     
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  12. Shakur92

    Shakur92 Full Member

    Aug 13, 2018
    Paris, France
    Damn really didn’t know you could vape MTL at such low ohm i mean i knew that down to 0.6 could be fine but i would’ve never guessed that low. Thx a lot quite useful.
     
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  13. Shakur92

    Shakur92 Full Member

    Aug 13, 2018
    Paris, France
    Thx Anna.

    I guess you’re right, although i’d like to use TC i should probably start with some 26 or 28 Khantal to get the hang of it and definitely with a single coil.
    I’d like to know tho what the diameter of the coil changes ?
    And how the gauge affects the vape.
    Thx again.
     
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  14. Shakur92

    Shakur92 Full Member

    Aug 13, 2018
    Paris, France
    Thank you for the answer.
    Thinking about it, it is best that i start with simple builds and once i master those i’ll take a look at more complicated ones.
    What you recommended should bring the coil to 0.8 to 0.9ohm which is pretty nice.
    I’ll try this and different setups to get to my spot. Peace.
     
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  15. Hawise

    Hawise Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    AB, Canada
    My standard at the moment is 6 wraps 2.5 ID 30 ga SS316L, for just over 1 ohm. Some random points occurred to me as I read the thread:
    • I don't know that there's any advantage to starting with Kanthal. SS is unusual in that you can use it for both TC and wattage mode.
    • Someone said that 26 or 28 ga might be better than 30 or 32 as it holds up a bit better to rewicking. I second this. I'm fairly happy with 30 ga myself, but you have to be careful and I usually destroy my coil while rewicking after a few weeks. Thicker wire would hold up better.
    • It was also suggested that a contact coil would be sturdier than a spaced coil. While this is certainly true, spaced coils work much better for TC.
    • Many mods have a 1.5 ohm maximum for TC, and I've experienced some problems getting TC to work properly once I get up to 1.3 or so. On the other hand, some MTL tanks don't work well below 0.5 ohm. I'd recommend a target resistance of between 0.6 ohm and 1 ohm.
    • I find a 2.5 mm ID tends to give me better flavour than a 3 mm, but your experience will depend on the device you're using and several other factors. Your best bet is to try a number of different coils, usually in the 2 - 3 mm ID range for MTL, and see what you happen to prefer.
     
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  16. smoked25years

    smoked25years Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 8, 2018
    You'll get a variety of response from different people because they have different preferences. When people talk about what gives a "satisfying" vape. They are talking about what is satisfying for THEM. It is different for everyone. What one person finds satisfying may not be good at all for another person.

    I would get 28 AWG and 30 AWG. I would not use 32 -- it is VERY thin and used in tiny pods devices like the Myblu pod.

    For MTL, I would not recommend anything larger than 28 AWG for 316L. If you look at "heat capacity" on Steam Engine | free vaping calculators you'll see that it is green for 30 AWG 316L wire at 1 Ohm. It will be yellow or red with thicker wire.

    My own preferences are similar to those posted by @Hawise. Except that I use an 8 wrap coil in the Galaxies RDTA. I close off the air flow a lot for a true MTL vape so the thin 30 AWG wire helps keep the heat down. I vape at 12 Watts or less. I use 2.5 ID, 8 wrap, spaced 30 AWG 316L.

    28 AWG is easier to work with since it is slightly thicker and doesn't deform as easily. But I prefer the performance of 30 AWG for MTL.

    Others have completely different preferences. Some like wide open air flow. Some like thick wire. Some like running at 20 Watts or higher and lots of heat.
     
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  17. OhmzRaw

    OhmzRaw Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 19, 2015
    I do the same. Personally, I never go over 0.9 ohms for the very same reason. Over 0.9 ohms the vape experience is very satisfactory. I'm currently using the Augvape Merlin MTL and the Savour MTL RTA and the vape is great. In my Merlin MTL I'm using N80 flat wire so it's lower then I normally go. My coil reads at the 0.27 ohm mark and I'm using it at 23w. The flavour is great on this setup.
     
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  18. Shakur92

    Shakur92 Full Member

    Aug 13, 2018
    Paris, France
    Thank you for the detailed explaination.
    I want to use SS mostly for it’s versatility.
    But at the end i think i’m just gonna try a bunch of stuff like both 26 khantal and 30 SS, both spaced and contact coils and from 2 to 3 ID to see what i like the most.
    I got a question tho, how long will a coil last
    approximately?
     
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  19. Shakur92

    Shakur92 Full Member

    Aug 13, 2018
    Paris, France
    Thx for the answer.
    I think i’ll try a setup similar to yours as i like a restrictive MTL vape at a low wattage.
     
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  20. Hawise

    Hawise Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    AB, Canada
    Excellent. Experimentation is the way to go. I expect you'll find yourself fiddling with the wicking a lot as well.

    The coil itself will last indefinitely. It'll work until you happen to damage it, and I've heard of people using coils a few years old. I usually eventually deform it while I'm pulling out old wicking, although in theory you can pop the coil (overheat it so it breaks - usually while dry burning) or overheat it in a way that damages it (it may have a significantly different room-temperature resistance or not work in TC properly).

    The wick is another story. I have to rewick and clean the coil after a few days. How many days you get will depend on the same factors that affect the life of a drop-in coil - your juice, your settings, and how much you vape. I find I have to rewick and clean a bit more often than I changed drop-in coils
     
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