Beginner MTL coil buid.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Shakur92

Full Member
Aug 13, 2018
51
95
Paris, France
Thicker the wire the longer coil will last... but... it is somewhat safer and sometimes even faster to build and install new coil than properly dry burn and clean old one.

I do not know if you realize how thin and flimsy 30 gauge wire is... installing and wicking such coil even for experienced vaper is really PITA... 30 gauge wire is 0.25 mm (quarter of 1mm)... if you even slightly touch it your coil legs will bend... if your cotton will not have good contact with wire you will have poor vaping experience and wicking it snuggly is big chalenge as pulling it through will mangle the coil legs or coil itself... proper wicking is no less important that diameter, number of wraps or kind of metal wire... for satisfactory vape it is in my opinion more important than your chosen resistance range...

If you plan to use tank that provide true/proper MTL you have to be aware that hole under your coil will be no bigger than 1.6 mm and on some tanks even smaller... so this tiny airflow hole will not work very well with 3 mm diameter coil... the same is true about smaller diameter holes with 10 or more wraps... air will not hit the entire lenght of coil evenly and a lot of juice on ends of coil will be boiled not vaporized causing a lot of spitbacks crackling noises... If you raise your coil up you will mitigate somewhat that problem but flavor will be muted...

On some well regarded on this forum for exceptional flavor MTL RTAs build deck is so small that you will not be able to fit 3mm diameter coils... even 2.5 mm when placed low to airflow hole is a small challenge... but if you insist on using 30gauge wire I wish you luck...and... patience... :):):)
Thx you for answer again.
I guess i think i know what i want but i kinda don’t until i try, so i will mess around probably make a few mistakes down the road but with your advices and some time, i should be able to work it out. Peace.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: stols001

Alter

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 2, 2013
2,711
6,942
BC Canada
Lots of good stuff already said...
Once you get settled enough making builds and since your ordering wire. Getting started using single wire builds to understand the building process is the best way to go. Consider how easy rebuilding is then you will realize real soon of the massive improvement in vape quality your now wanting more and a single wire build ain't gonna do. Research out Clapton builds. I vape a single wire 29K/34SS clapton or 36SS or 38SS as wrap. Super simple to wrap, take your best method out of YouTube and amaze yourself. No real different wattage setting cause the mod registers the core wire and the wraps just transfer the heat....after that the world of rebuilding is at your feet waiting to be explored.
So in your wire purchasing some forthought of 34SS for sure as wrap wire and the 36 or 38 are optional. There's a "crazy" place in the UK thats got wire and is kinda close. As for wicking...I dunno how hard it is to get rayon over there but its a much superior product to cotton(any cotton). The several thousand posts in the rayon thread says many happy vapers.
Also read up on thinning tails, not trimming....too bulky of tails in both cotton and rayon hinder juice flow, learn to thin them to best suit your atty.
 

Shakur92

Full Member
Aug 13, 2018
51
95
Paris, France
Don't expect to have a positive experience with TC on any Smok, iJoy or Sigelei mods. They all have a very poor implementation of TC, with the iJoy being basically non functional.
Well lol. I guess i’ll be getting another mod. I you have any suggestions on a stealthy one that can to Tc in SS i’d gladly take it. Thx.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: stols001

Tony01

Full Member
May 3, 2018
57
117
43
Well you can either ask questions and spend hours reading about it, or get your devices and spend a few euros on different wires and actually start building. And I really mean a few; on fasttech a 10m roll of wire is about 1 euro.

Doggy/pico is a very popular and reliable setup, and great for TC should you want to try it with SST wire.

Fasttech:
SXK doggystyle $11.01 SXK Doggystyle Styled RTA Rebuildable Tank Atomizer - 3.5ml / stainless steel + PC / 22mm dia. at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
doggystyle tank 5-pack
Eleaf Pico 75W Authentic, MOD ONLY
Cotton bacon
Rolls of wire. Get 28 and 26 in both SST and kanthal.
A better drip tip. I like this one for its 4mm bore (most tips have a bigger bore) single unit not in stock $3.77 Teflon 510 Drip Tip (5-Pack) 5-pack - 15mm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

Buy stuff that is “in stock” or “ships next day” on fasttech. Or it will take forever.

eBay:
Sony vtc6 3000mah. Authentic. ~6-8 euro.

Ejuice: clear or slightly yellowed (clear that has been yellowed by nicotine). Dark juices will gunk up your coil. Run higher watts or temp for higher VG (higher boiling point than PG)

BCE2CC92-87D6-40C9-86B4-AC8233FB7832.jpeg
 

Shakur92

Full Member
Aug 13, 2018
51
95
Paris, France
Lots of good stuff already said...
Once you get settled enough making builds and since your ordering wire. Getting started using single wire builds to understand the building process is the best way to go. Consider how easy rebuilding is then you will realize real soon of the massive improvement in vape quality your now wanting more and a single wire build ain't gonna do. Research out Clapton builds. I vape a single wire 29K/34SS clapton or 36SS or 38SS as wrap. Super simple to wrap, take your best method out of YouTube and amaze yourself. No real different wattage setting cause the mod registers the core wire and the wraps just transfer the heat....after that the world of rebuilding is at your feet waiting to be explored.
So in your wire purchasing some forthought of 34SS for sure as wrap wire and the 36 or 38 are optional. There's a "crazy" place in the UK thats got wire and is kinda close. As for wicking...I dunno how hard it is to get rayon over there but its a much superior product to cotton(any cotton). The several thousand posts in the rayon thread says many happy vapers.
Also read up on thinning tails, not trimming....too bulky of tails in both cotton and rayon hinder juice flow, learn to thin them to best suit your atty.
Hey, thx for the answer. I’ll take a close look at all of this.
As for the "crazy place" in UK i might have a hard time checking it since i live in France lol, although i could take the train of fly there but that would be a very expensive wire then. Peace.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stols001

CagedSpam

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 12, 2015
475
1,308
FoPo, Oregon

Susaz

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jun 8, 2009
4,857
10,701
Buenos Aires, Argentina
You'll get a variety of response from different people because they have different preferences. When people talk about what gives a "satisfying" vape. They are talking about what is satisfying for THEM. It is different for everyone. What one person finds satisfying may not be good at all for another person.

I would get 28 AWG and 30 AWG. I would not use 32 -- it is VERY thin and used in tiny pods devices like the Myblu pod.

For MTL, I would not recommend anything larger than 28 AWG for 316L. If you look at "heat capacity" on Steam Engine | free vaping calculators you'll see that it is green for 30 AWG 316L wire at 1 Ohm. It will be yellow or red with thicker wire.

My own preferences are similar to those posted by @Hawise. Except that I use an 8 wrap coil in the Galaxies RDTA. I close off the air flow a lot for a true MTL vape so the thin 30 AWG wire helps keep the heat down. I vape at 12 Watts or less. I use 2.5 ID, 8 wrap, spaced 30 AWG 316L.

28 AWG is easier to work with since it is slightly thicker and doesn't deform as easily. But I prefer the performance of 30 AWG for MTL.

Others have completely different preferences. Some like wide open air flow. Some like thick wire. Some like running at 20 Watts or higher and lots of heat.
Until you know what you like, do yourself a favor and eliminate the guesswork out of choosing a coil. This ferris wheel contains most wanted coils. You'll have enough to start with, and maybe you'll never actually wind a coil

Original Youde UD Ferris Wheel Coil Box - $17.64 Free Shipping|GearBest.com
 

Alter

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 2, 2013
2,711
6,942
BC Canada
As for the "crazy place" in UK i might have a hard time checking it since i live in France lol, although i could take the train of fly there but that would be a very expensive wire then. Peace.

I live much further away than you do...
I dunno how or where your going to your supplies from but there is good wire and crap wire so sometimes shipping costs are worth it for knowing what your getting rather than some who-knows-where or what wire in a baggie from a B&M.
 

Shakur92

Full Member
Aug 13, 2018
51
95
Paris, France
Well you can either ask questions and spend hours reading about it, or get your devices and spend a few euros on different wires and actually start building. And I really mean a few; on fasttech a 10m roll of wire is about 1 euro.

Doggy/pico is a very popular and reliable setup, and great for TC should you want to try it with SST wire.

Fasttech:
SXK doggystyle $11.01 SXK Doggystyle Styled RTA Rebuildable Tank Atomizer - 3.5ml / stainless steel + PC / 22mm dia. at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
doggystyle tank 5-pack
Eleaf Pico 75W Authentic, MOD ONLY
Cotton bacon
Rolls of wire. Get 28 and 26 in both SST and kanthal.
A better drip tip. I like this one for its 4mm bore (most tips have a bigger bore) single unit not in stock $3.77 Teflon 510 Drip Tip (5-Pack) 5-pack - 15mm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

Buy stuff that is “in stock” or “ships next day” on fasttech. Or it will take forever.

eBay:
Sony vtc6 3000mah. Authentic. ~6-8 euro.

Ejuice: clear or slightly yellowed (clear that has been yellowed by nicotine). Dark juices will gunk up your coil. Run higher watts or temp for higher VG (higher boiling point than PG)

View attachment 765897
Thx for the answer and suggestions.
I’m definitely buying the doggystyle (really dig that name btw lol) but the pico has a design that i don’t like so i’ll buy something else.
And btw i can just pretty much spend hours asking questions and reading the answers while i’m waiting for a device since i’m still new to rebuildables. Peace.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stols001

Shakur92

Full Member
Aug 13, 2018
51
95
Paris, France
I live much further away than you do...
I dunno how or where your going to your supplies from but there is good wire and crap wire so sometimes shipping costs are worth it for knowing what your getting rather than some who-knows-where or what wire in a baggie from a B&M.
I get you.
I assumed you thought i was living in UK cause you talked about a "place". But yeah ordering from there would not be a pb at all.
 
Hey everyone,

So i’ve been vaping for about 2 months or so and i’d like to get into rebuildables.
I only vape in MTL and i need some advices.

I’ve been watching threads and vids here and there, but i’m still kinda lost beetween everything. I see spaced coils, micro coils, clapton ones.
Then there’s the gauge, the different cotton and all.

Basically i’d like to get beetween 0.8 and 1.6ohm coil.
It can be khantal but i’d prefer SS to be able to use it in TC.
So i’d like your advices on which wire to use, what gauge, the diameter of the coils, the number of wraps and maybe the type of cotton to buy.

Also i saw people dry fire the coils or using ceramic tweezers to compress the coil, scratching and cleaning the coil and i’d like to know why and what i should do.

I intend to use either an RTA or an RDA.
I haven’t bought the device yet cause i wanted some recommendations about a good one for beginners and if you think i should buy either an RTA or an RDA to begin with.

Thank you in advance for your time and answers, if you see any spelling mistakes don’t hesitate to tell me. Peace from France.

My Ambitions as a Ryda!

28 or 29 awg Kanthal A1 from Temco (temco ebay) **most other kanthal is garbage chinese wire** temco buys original sandvik Kanthal.
(kanthal is a more pure metal than stainless steel because there's no nickel in kanthal (no bs))

cthulhu hastur mini rta
or ares rta
or galaxies rdta
or berserker rdta

5-10 wraps spaced or not (your choice - I prefer spaced) 2 - 3mm
buy a coil master kit too (it helps with building coils)

USV-L 75W TC VW Variable Wattage Box Mod - Moma Black, Zinc Alloy, 1~75W, 1 x 18650, VO 75 Chip
or
Vandy Vape Pulse BF 80W TC VW Box Mod w/ 30ml Refill Bottle - Fantastic Blue, 5~80W, 8ml, 1 x 18650/20700, Vandy Chip
(buy on 3fvape for a good price)
 

Hawise

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 25, 2013
1,660
4,267
AB, Canada
Well lol. I guess i’ll be getting another mod. I you have any suggestions on a stealthy one that can to Tc in SS i’d gladly take it. Thx.

By far the best mod you can get for TC is one with a DNA chip. If a single battery mod will do, the Jac Vapour Series B DNA75 is an excellent and cost-effective choice. Yihi mods are also supposed to be very good.

A step down from those are a number of mods with reasonable TC. Smoant, Joyetech and Eleaf come to mind, although I'm sure there are others.
 

Alter

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 2, 2013
2,711
6,942
BC Canada
I get you.
I assumed you thought i was living in UK cause you talked about a "place". But yeah ordering from there would not be a pb at all.

You location in your avatar says Paris and the "place"...its a lead without advertising the company to a reliable wire source thats easier on shipping charges than some popular US companies. You being new to vaping...knowledge is your best asset. Its all a learning curve till you find "that build" then ride the wave...
 

IMFire3605

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
May 3, 2013
2,041
3,148
Blue Rapids, KS, US
MTL is pretty simple, at least for me, I've run MTL style tanks like Kayfuns and Russian 91% tanks for years, just recently purchased a Vapefly Galaxies MTL tank, there is also a MTL Galaxies RDA, decks are both very much similar how the coils mount. Kayfuns and such are all very similar as well, building and mounting the coils are easy, it is the wicking of the coil that takes the main practice to perfect of not to tight (causes dry hits as the wicking is choked off) and not to loose (causes popping and bubbling which causes major spitting and spit back). You'll have to settle on a RTA/RDA that you think will suit your needs (tank juice capacity, build deck single or dual coil, air flow adjustment, top or bottom fill). Once you find a tank/rda that piques your interest I'd look at buying a clone of that device, generally can find those at Fasttech, this way you can get a good approximation of what the authentic will function like to practice on before spending more money on an authentic (example a Kayfun Prime for instance can have a price tag of about $150 US plus shipping).

Now Ohm (resistance) ratings, for an MTL RDA I'd look in the 0.8 (Sub-Ohm) to 1.0ohm range (probably 26AWG, Kanthal will have a higher ohm per inch reading, SS316L comes in closer toward NiChrome80 in ohm per inch in my experience, but 26AWG is a good, durable, easy to work with gauge of wire, excellent performance in the 0.5 to 1.0ohm range with very little heat ramp up time in the about 20watts range which is a warm, flavorful, but good temperature range, in T/C mode with SS316L it would work really well here). For a MTL RTA, then 28AWG comes into play for me at least, little thinner than 26AWG, but has higher ohm per inch over 26AWG, little less durable, but great for being in a small tight build deck. Most of my MTL devices my coil diameter is about 2.0 to 2.5mm Inner Diameter (ID) in the 1.3 to 1.6ohm range at about 8 to 13watts, coil type is generally a tensioned tightly wrapped micro-coil (wire wrap touches the next), though a spaced coil works phemonomally in MTL as well. Wicking I generally use Cotton Bacon/Cotton Bacon Bits or Cotton King, Rayon works well (only you have to wick it tighter than real cotton as it wicks and holds juice like a champ).

The question on the difference between using ceramic tweezers to pulse and compress a coil or raking them and pulsing them, with contact coils like micro-coils, the firing is heating up the coil wire, this makes an oxidation layer build, as you compress/rake the wire lines up the spacing of that oxidation to insulate the wire and stop shorts and hot spots, making a balanced, stable ohm reading on the coil. With contact coils you want even glowing from center out, spaced coils the same way, and especially clapton style coils, no proper oxidation, bad things happen.

You'll just need some basic equipment, and basic Knowledge, particularly Ohms Law, and then lots and lots of practice.

Basic Minimum Tool Kit

Set of Jewelers Screw Drivers, also most devices will have a hex key (allen wrench) if the grub screws are that, but still a set of these is a must
Pair of Flush Wire Cutter for trimming and cutting wire
Tweezers (suggested ceramic) and/or pair of needle nose pliers (don't use these while firing, pulse to heat up, let off firing, use to compress, don't want to short anything out).
Pair of Sheers (scissors), sharper the better
Most important, and Ohm reader, though most mods today are pretty accurate and can be used instead, read the resistance before pulsing and compressing/raking, you will see a shift in readings as the coil stablizes out as the oxidation layer builds.

I'd suggest to start, a 30ft roll of both 26 and 28awg wire to see which you prefer before buying a 100ft plus roll, can find pretty easily online, but I'd suggest look at Temco Industrial Power - Resistance Wire , or Kidney Puncher (especially for SS316L wire).
Wicking I'd suggest start off with either some Rayon, or any of the common "Organic" cottons (Cotton Bacon, Cotton King, Ko-Gen-Do/Muji Japanese cottons)

Then just get some practice in.

Good luck, any troubles don't hesitate to make a post, no stupid questions except the ones not asked around here.
 

Shakur92

Full Member
Aug 13, 2018
51
95
Paris, France
My Ambitions as a Ryda!

28 or 29 awg Kanthal A1 from Temco (temco ebay) **most other kanthal is garbage chinese wire** temco buys original sandvik Kanthal.
(kanthal is a more pure metal than stainless steel because there's no nickel in kanthal (no bs))

cthulhu hastur mini rta
or ares rta
or galaxies rdta
or berserker rdta

5-10 wraps spaced or not (your choice - I prefer spaced) 2 - 3mm
buy a coil master kit too (it helps with building coils)

USV-L 75W TC VW Variable Wattage Box Mod - Moma Black, Zinc Alloy, 1~75W, 1 x 18650, VO 75 Chip
or
Vandy Vape Pulse BF 80W TC VW Box Mod w/ 30ml Refill Bottle - Fantastic Blue, 5~80W, 8ml, 1 x 18650/20700, Vandy Chip
(buy on 3fvape for a good price)
Thanks for the suggestions, that helps a lot. I’ll check reviews on YT and decide from there. :thumb:
 
  • Like
Reactions: stols001

papergoblin

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 16, 2013
973
2,246
alabama
I can MTL at 0.5ohm........................ not a problem.....but not with 22 gauge, 3mm , 8 wraps... my AF hole in my doggystyle or dwarw or Gotank is no bigger than 2mm in diameter... I will not fit 3mm diameter 8 wraps 22 gauge wire (the lenght of coil even if not spaced would be over 5mm) in any of my MTL RTA tank. Even If I would fit such coil ramp up time would be very annoying at wattage that will give me not hot vape... OP clearly indicated he wants to use true MTL not MTL done in DTL tank...

I get that, my point was comparing the number of wraps on the same coil, just changing wire size. To show that the OP needs more than just 26GA or any one gauge of wire. That depending on what he is doing different gauges will give better benefit.

Again you are totally missing my point, I'm not telling him to use 22. I'm showing him how wraps vary depending on single or dual coil set ups and how wraps vary on wire size CHOICE, and then depending on the chosen build style one wire gauge is a better CHOICE than another. I used 22 as an example because at .5 in a dual, as it is a lot of wraps.

Now as far as what you have and use, that's you. We are all different and like different things, just like juice. Having said that you proved my point though, it'd be tough fitting 16 wraps of 22 in somethings and would have a long ramp up. Again I suggest you take the time to read what people post, the 16 wraps and 2 coils should have given you a clue it wasn't a suggested build, just an example of how wire gauge works.
 

Shakur92

Full Member
Aug 13, 2018
51
95
Paris, France
MTL is pretty simple, at least for me, I've run MTL style tanks like Kayfuns and Russian 91% tanks for years, just recently purchased a Vapefly Galaxies MTL tank, there is also a MTL Galaxies RDA, decks are both very much similar how the coils mount. Kayfuns and such are all very similar as well, building and mounting the coils are easy, it is the wicking of the coil that takes the main practice to perfect of not to tight (causes dry hits as the wicking is choked off) and not to loose (causes popping and bubbling which causes major spitting and spit back). You'll have to settle on a RTA/RDA that you think will suit your needs (tank juice capacity, build deck single or dual coil, air flow adjustment, top or bottom fill). Once you find a tank/rda that piques your interest I'd look at buying a clone of that device, generally can find those at Fasttech, this way you can get a good approximation of what the authentic will function like to practice on before spending more money on an authentic (example a Kayfun Prime for instance can have a price tag of about $150 US plus shipping).

Now Ohm (resistance) ratings, for an MTL RDA I'd look in the 0.8 (Sub-Ohm) to 1.0ohm range (probably 26AWG, Kanthal will have a higher ohm per inch reading, SS316L comes in closer toward NiChrome80 in ohm per inch in my experience, but 26AWG is a good, durable, easy to work with gauge of wire, excellent performance in the 0.5 to 1.0ohm range with very little heat ramp up time in the about 20watts range which is a warm, flavorful, but good temperature range, in T/C mode with SS316L it would work really well here). For a MTL RTA, then 28AWG comes into play for me at least, little thinner than 26AWG, but has higher ohm per inch over 26AWG, little less durable, but great for being in a small tight build deck. Most of my MTL devices my coil diameter is about 2.0 to 2.5mm Inner Diameter (ID) in the 1.3 to 1.6ohm range at about 8 to 13watts, coil type is generally a tensioned tightly wrapped micro-coil (wire wrap touches the next), though a spaced coil works phemonomally in MTL as well. Wicking I generally use Cotton Bacon/Cotton Bacon Bits or Cotton King, Rayon works well (only you have to wick it tighter than real cotton as it wicks and holds juice like a champ).

The question on the difference between using ceramic tweezers to pulse and compress a coil or raking them and pulsing them, with contact coils like micro-coils, the firing is heating up the coil wire, this makes an oxidation layer build, as you compress/rake the wire lines up the spacing of that oxidation to insulate the wire and stop shorts and hot spots, making a balanced, stable ohm reading on the coil. With contact coils you want even glowing from center out, spaced coils the same way, and especially clapton style coils, no proper oxidation, bad things happen.

You'll just need some basic equipment, and basic Knowledge, particularly Ohms Law, and then lots and lots of practice.

Basic Minimum Tool Kit

Set of Jewelers Screw Drivers, also most devices will have a hex key (allen wrench) if the grub screws are that, but still a set of these is a must
Pair of Flush Wire Cutter for trimming and cutting wire
Tweezers (suggested ceramic) and/or pair of needle nose pliers (don't use these while firing, pulse to heat up, let off firing, use to compress, don't want to short anything out).
Pair of Sheers (scissors), sharper the better
Most important, and Ohm reader, though most mods today are pretty accurate and can be used instead, read the resistance before pulsing and compressing/raking, you will see a shift in readings as the coil stablizes out as the oxidation layer builds.

I'd suggest to start, a 30ft roll of both 26 and 28awg wire to see which you prefer before buying a 100ft plus roll, can find pretty easily online, but I'd suggest look at Temco Industrial Power - Resistance Wire , or Kidney Puncher (especially for SS316L wire).
Wicking I'd suggest start off with either some Rayon, or any of the common "Organic" cottons (Cotton Bacon, Cotton King, Ko-Gen-Do/Muji Japanese cottons)

Then just get some practice in.

Good luck, any troubles don't hesitate to make a post, no stupid questions except the ones not asked around here.
Thank you very much for your answer.
Pretty much everything i needed to know. I screenshoted that and i will surely read it again and try the setups you suggested.
For the tool kit i think i’ll buy either the Coil father X6S kit or the X9.
I’m still looking at the Rda/Rta, i’m hesitating beetween a Berserker MTL RDA or a Vapefly galaxy RDA or RDTA or an Ares RTA, something around those.
As for the wire and cotton i’m gonna follow your suggestions.
Just a quick question maybe a stupid one but i’d like to know if i can use any blend of juice with the coils i make, or is it more about the type of cotton? And also depending on the coil i build, how do i know the proper wattage? I already know a bit with premade coils but i don’t know if it’s the same.
Thx in advance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stols001

Baditude

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Apr 8, 2012
30,394
73,072
70
Ridgeway, Ohio
...how long will a coil last
approximately?
I once had a pair of coils last me about 8 months before. I "dry burned" the coils clean with each wick change (every 3 - 4 days). They could have lasted longer, but they got to the point where their appearance started to look a little tacky.
 

Baditude

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Apr 8, 2012
30,394
73,072
70
Ridgeway, Ohio
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread