Best attempt at a tobacco flavor so far --Full Credit to Nuck

[geeker]

My tobacco absolute mixed in vodka is green. I was alarmed at first, but then considering what the tob abso really is, I guess it should be green. Unfortunately, it also TASTES green. Like grass/leaves. I think I might try the ethyl maltol in an extract I make of regular cured dried tobacco. Anyone have any experience getting tobacco to macerate in vg or pg? I think alcohol would be way too thin of a liquid, even if bumped up with nic juice and pg/vg.

 

[DonDaBoomVape]

My tobacco absolute mixed in vodka is green. I was alarmed at first, but then considering what the tob abso really is, I guess it should be green. Unfortunately, it also TASTES green. Like grass/leaves. I think I might try the ethyl maltol in an extract I make of regular cured dried tobacco. Anyone have any experience getting tobacco to macerate in vg or pg? I think alcohol would be way too thin of a liquid, even if bumped up with nic juice and pg/vg.

Ditto.

And it stained everything it touched (even indirectly), e.g., eye dropper, pipette, measuring vial, plastic bottle, and plastic rinsing bowl.

Actually, I preferred the Tobacco Accord (aka Tobacco Key Accord)*, the forumula for which contains no Tobacco Absolute, ironically.

* A bit perfumy, but not bad.

After mixing the Nuck formula e-liquid with some of the Accord + Vanillin + caramel + pralines & cream + butter + Clove, it tasted palatable. I call the resultant liquid: The Kitchen Sink. [No, I don't plan on mass marketing it.]

I don't regret ordering from Perfumer's Apprentice, however. The tobacco absolute was just a small portion of the order. The menthol (liquid), vanillin (crystals), ethyl maltol (crystals), and clove (liquid) that I ordered will all be useful.

 

[Misty]

Nuck's recipe calls for:
Tobacco absolute: 1 drop/2 ml Everclear or 70%absynthe..I prepare the dilution in a separate closed bottle and have enough drops for several DIY 10 ml fresh mixes.

..when I make a fresh full mix of the recipe , I just add 2 drops/5ml of the diluted tobacco absolute mix.
I agree pure tobacco absolute is brown and viscous..but once diluted , there should be no further staining of equipment..
I definitly don't taste perfumey or grass..but it's so subjective!

 

[Kate51]

At perfumersapprentice.com they also have "tobacco key accord" in addition to the tobacco absolute. Anyone have experience with that? Stronger/weaker? Better flavor? It looks like it may be manufactured as opposed to distilled.

Any thoughts?

I saw that too....it is made from the flowers? rather than leaves of the tobacco may be worth a try.....but seems as though that might serve better for perfumers, so don't really know. Vapor doesn't really have a smell/taste connection, or does it?
I am not going to need any absolute for a loooong time, but next time I do will order some. Wish we could get a 'smeller' sample from these places! Still looking for 'Virginia' and 'burley' tobacco absolute, never see that anywhere. Have no idea the species' names, could be just a hybrid cross/cross of some kind.
* Also, just got an order from "Biogenicstimulants.com" yesterday, shipping was very slow, their absolute good also(Bulgaria)
* cheaper than Botane, but Botane ships FAST.
*Gritman from Texas has a 'blond', seems same as all my other absolutes, if you judge according to smell, couldn't tell the difference, however will require a 'taste' first. EXPENSIVE 5ml cost me $40w/shipping. Shipped moderately fast.
*STILL AM UNSURE ABOUT How much Ethyl Maltol /per drop of absolute, am sure it's just a matter of taste. In the old JC, I could taste it, (malty). Next batch going to just add it into my absolute/EverClear dillute, see what happens. Is ok to mix in grain alcohol to dissolve, so should work ok.
Loving this! Anyone know where to get some HazMat signs?? Need some for my kitchen! Ha- husband is getting concerned. Keep telling him, should have been MORE concerned with our smoking!!!

 

[Linthorn]

I noticed a lot of people having problems getting the Maltol crystals to dissolve. I figured that I could speed the process by increasing surface area, i.e. powder. Since my mortar and pestle aren't made for such tiny amounts I used the paper backing from some sticky labels. The backing is smooth and tough. I folded the maltol into a small square of the paper and crushed it gently with a small glass bottle like a rolling pin until I had made a powder. I put the powder in the mix and shook it up for a minute. No '.......s' and no powder in the mix. Completely dissolved. Works great.

 

[Kate51]

Well, that sure sounded easy. This stuff is fickle! I've had it completely dissolved, turn around to get a paper towel, it's turned cloudy, and in about 30 seconds looks like bad varnish. It wasn't something I wanted stuck on my atomizer. You were so kind to spend time educating newbies!
OK, need a tiny mortar and pestle? Kinda cute to put on the kitchen shelf:
Oh, and it works great to grind Ethyl Maltol to a very very fine powder. Smallest dap is 15/16"
I just did a 1/4tsp in 10ml water, and I have dissolved! Warmed it for just a bit and it's totally clear. Good idea Linthorn!

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[Vaporer]

Hi all,

Great thread. Been on the look for a tobacco flavor for quite a while. Virginia is a favorite and if near as good as the thread says, well that many people can't be wrong....lol
My absolutes should arrive today. Maltol is ordered. I'm a little confused on the maltol amount. An amount on the end of a pointed knife? Ok...I have large pointed cutlery knives to small pointed steak knives. I can see this being a big diff. Could someone state lets say "a pointed dinner steak knife, 1/4" from the point all that will pile on that area"? Something just a bit more definative.
If so, I have scales that can weigh as low as 1mg reliably. If I can get a closer description, I can take that amount , weigh it and figure a simple method of repeating the exact amount for people that dont have scales.

Ok......now who has the Tennesse cured and Burley?

Thanks for all the great info!

Vaporer

 

[Linthorn]

Hi all,
I'm a little confused on the maltol amount. An amount on the end of a pointed knife? Ok...I have large pointed cutlery knives to small pointed steak knives. I can see this being a big diff. Could someone state lets say "a pointed dinner steak knife, 1/4" from the point all that will pile on that area"? Something just a bit more definative.

This has been tough for me too. Best description I've heard is to measure the volume in liquid equivalent. So, if you are adding 1% to a 10 ml mix, use 0.1 ml. Take 0.1 ml of water and make a drop somewhere so you can see how big it is. Make a pile of the maltol that same size. Now crush it. I'd measure first and crush later or you will get too much maltol.

Assuming that maltol is like sugar in weight and volume, we can estimate the mass of maltol by comparing it to a sugar cube. Standard sugar cubes are 1 teaspoon (5 ml) and weigh 4 gm. So, if I only want 0.1 ml I would need 4gm x 0.1 ml / 5 ml = 80mg

 

[Vaporer]

Ok........that works for me. I can measure 80mg then make a "spoon/cup" that will hold that amount when filled level. I can post what I make so others can make theirs.
It will have to be closer and more consistant than the knife point method......

As far as the ml amount. Pharmacutical standards state 20 drops per ml.
.1ml x 20 drops = 2 drops or the same volume of in a solid (powder).

Works for me.

Thanks,

Vaporer

 

[Linthorn]

As far as the ml amount. Pharmacutical standards state 20 drops per ml.
.1ml x 20 drops = 2 drops or the same volume of in a solid (powder).

Be careful on that. It really depends on what you use as a dropper and the viscosity of the liquid. I was calibrating my droppers and found that I got 20 drops/ml of glycerin (large dropper, high viscosity) but I got 27-30 drops/ml of water (smaller dropper, low viscosity). I had assumed 20 drops/ml myself but I wasn't sure so I tested. Glad I did.

 

[Vaporer]

Appreciate that.
I took the all droppers I use and there is one size and shape that seems to be the standard for that formula.
I have the small bottle ones and it's not uncommon to have 27-28 drops per ml with them.
The drop is also supposed to be slow enough to let itself fall , not pushed out or shaken loose to fall.
Having a bowl of water to rinse in and using the same dropper for everything is a little more of a hassle but gives consistant and accurate results.

Vaporer

 

[Vaporer]

Ok......Tobacco Absolute came in today!
I didnt have any alcohol so I gave it a shot with PG.......seems to mix just fine.
Hasn't separated after 6 hrs sitting.
Hard to believe the aroma of the bottle after diluting that much.
It's the Rustica from the Apprentice.
Yes, its green in PG and its aroma, and taste are wonderful.
Thank you all for all the work you did to find and develop this.
I added 1 drop to my standard menthol mix. Its 24mg cut 50%.
Great flavor boost. The menthol seems to soften it a bit as it was more pronounced in the same mix before I added the menthol. My menthol is 1 drop per ml and I doubt it diluted it that much.

Now waiting on my other absolute and maltol to arrive.

Thanks again to you all. I'll be working on some flavors and post anything that seems worthy.

Vaporer

 

[lashmn]

Great thread. Have most of my supplies ordered and hope they will be here by the weekend when I can set up my Vape lab. I've already warned my hubby after reading Kate's posts. LOL. Never thought I could have so much fun not smoking analogs.

You guys (including gals) are the greatest. What a wonderful group of peeps.

Lynn

 

[Vaporer]

Ok...here's an easy method to always get the amount of Maltol you want.
The math is easy to convert, if you have trouble, PM me. Sometimes my descriptions stink. lol

Start with 3ml of 151 vodka (75% ethyl alcohol). Use a bottle that will hold a total of 5-10ml. Add the Maltol till no more will dissolve. No need to measure it. It will be almost 4gm of Maltol. Powder it before you start so it disolves easier. Then shake it, tip it over watching tv. Let it sit over night and shake it some more in the morning....not long. Make sure there are still crystals/powder in the bottom and they aren't disolving anymore.
Now you have about 4ml of liquid to pour off. Label the bottle and that is your constant standard base to add to mixes.
Using a dropper that is standard (20 drops per ml) each drop contains 65mg of Maltol! It's not hard to do and you always get the same result. You can cut part of it 50/50 with 151 and it will be 32.5gm per drop. Now you can fine tune your mixes the same everytime.

 

[Vaporer]

Welcome Lynn,

Good info here and good people helping each other.
I can relate to Kate situation. I have some HazMat stickers around here somewhere.
Now what was here address?.........hmmmmmmmm lol
My wife thinks my old computer desk looks like a crack lab!

 

[Joe81]

whats the difference: tobacco absolute, tobacco essence, tobacco key accord? also, are there any others?

 

[KonaNeil]

.....Start with 3ml of 151 vodka (75% ethyl alcohol)....

In Hawaii we don't have anything like Everclear or overproof vodka but we have a very good 154 proof white rum. Will that work or should I be concerned about it having oils or anything else that will get in the way?

 

[Vaporer]

Joker ,

There is one other "concrete". It contains the waxes still included from the extraction process. Not a good choice.
Absolute is the purest, essense is a dilute form absolute sometimes extracted by a diff method and accord from all I've read has other chemicals added into it.
I use the absolute. It may seem pricey but after diluted, ( see Nucks post near the begining of the thread), it goes a long way.

Kona,

I've read of people using rum. I just checked and even though its made from sugar cane, it contains very little sugar. The higher the alcohol the less the sugar content. I couldn't find a ref that addressed oil. Some use absinthe and it has quite a bit of sugar. It's used in such a small quantity approx 1% most times I doubt you'll even taste the rum. I could be wrong but I can't taste the alcohol with vodka. I don't see it decreasing your atty life and the worst case would be a very slight hint of rum flavor. Is that bad? lol
I do like the consistancy of a supersaturated solution as its always the same and takes so little.

Hope that helps,

 

[grumpster]

Any spirit would work. Rum would be okay, but of the spirits that can usually be bought in restricted areas, I like vodka better. It's clear allowing you to see if your granules are dissolved and it's more pure. Avoid any liquors though because they can clog your atty more.

 

[Joe81]

Joker ,

There is one other "concrete". It contains the waxes still included from the extraction process. Not a good choice.
Absolute is the purest, essense is a dilute form absolute sometimes extracted by a diff method and accord from all I've read has other chemicals added into it.
I use the absolute. It may seem pricey but after diluted, ( see Nucks post near the begining of the thread), it goes a long way.

Kona,

I've read of people using rum. I just checked and even though its made from sugar cane, it contains very little sugar. The higher the alcohol the less the sugar content. I couldn't find a ref that addressed oil. Some use absinthe and it has quite a bit of sugar. It's used in such a small quantity approx 1% most times I doubt you'll even taste the rum. I could be wrong but I can't taste the alcohol with vodka. I don't see it decreasing your atty life and the worst case would be a very slight hint of rum flavor. Is that bad? lol
I do like the consistancy of a supersaturated solution as its always the same and takes so little.

Hope that helps,

it helps alot, how do they get flu-cured taste? or is that just from flavoring...

Any spirit would work. Rum would be okay, but of the spirits that can usually be bought in restricted areas, I like vodka better. It's clear allowing you to see if your granules are dissolved and it's more pure. Avoid any liquors though because they can clog your atty more.

hmmm, vodka & rum are some of my least fave drinks lol, but i guess it don't make a diff. with such little amounts in vaping...btw, u just recommended two liquors, but just told me not to use it due to clogged attys, im confused?