OH yeah, fonedude. I see fondue all the time when I read your name. I just never thought enough of it to mention it.
Beware of the Quit Smoking Purists
- Thread starter John Phoenix
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I'm not that patient by nature. LOL Actually.. I can be when my heart is in the right place. One thing that kept me from attacking back with hate is knowing this isn't about me, or them, it's about saving lives. Nothing else matters. That's why I started using the e-cig, to save my own life. Believe me there were times I wanted to lash out and yell and cuss and kick a few in the neither regions. I too think good will come from this. We shall see.
Anyone else notice in the control panel on QSMB there is a group box? In my group box it says Administrator.. it's light blue.. what does that mean?
I'm out for the night. Night all!
I'm out for the night. Night all!
Thanks so much for posting
Shortly after your post I had to get some sleep. And then after my nap I was busily trying to catch up again. Just wanted to tell you that at the time you posted your words were very encouraging. I was quite stressed and of course slap-happy from lack of sleep. I have traded my addiction to cigarettes for an addiction to electronic forums.
I will have to look for this Skippy you speak of. Sounds like a good read LOL.
As for bullies pfttttt ....
So again thanks for the encouragement. And Good Morning to you albeit the following day.
Hey guys, I'm going to let my pants down around my ankles a bit here, without having read the entire thread. But I have a few comments.
I am not speaking as a moderator here, this is not an official ECF post. I'm speaking for only myself.
Please. Please listen to me.
As a person who has been drug free since November 23rd, 1982- I was very very troubled that a number of you guys went over to that stop smoking forum. I know people had very good intentions, but please hear me out.
It is better to be nicotine free. Let's face it. And many of the reasons people here vape are because they cannot escape a nicotine addiction. This is fine. It's accepted by our community, vendors, in some cases our physicians, and the sites that host our communities.
The above we can all agree on.
However, an e-cigarette needs to be *found* as a solution, not promoted to people who are in the process of withdrawal- which is why that thread got a violent reaction for the forum members over there.
I remember being in rehab in 1982, I was 17. And if someone had offered me methadone I would have put a knife in them. Actually I would have whittled a chair leg down with my teeth, hand sharpened a knife out of a plastic spork, and managed to insert it into their skull- repeatedly.
And there's a good reason for that.
"Addiction and recovery" communities generally tend to reflect 12 step programs (Like AA, NA, CA, ACOA, OA) in the exercise of complete abstinence. The mantra in those communities is complete abstinence- or you "Start all over".
It's a good mantra to be honest.
However, those strategies do not work for all people. But you don't go to an AA meeting and tell those guys that. Having sat around those tables for years, I must tell you, the people there will be prone to physically assault you. And it's for good reason- they are strong enough to make it off the addiction with just community, prayer, and willpower. And they are quite irritable in the process of doing that. And they don't *ever* want to intake the addictive chemical again.
That being said....
We know several things about what is *known* and/or *unknown* about e-cigs. We, who have permanently altered our brain plasticity with nicotine, have altered brain plasticity it too far to recover, or otherwise lack will power or are dealing with mental conditions, shouldn't be throwing PV's in the face of those who are successfully attempting or succeeding at ceasing smoking through abstinence.
That was a long sentence. Sorry.
But that is my two cents. I have as much fun hanging out with my vaping people, as I do hanging out with my 12 step people. The rules are different. We are replacement therapy. They are abstinence. We are never going to hold a combined "Sunday Brunch". There will be no "Abstinence Dance- Vaping Allowed". We will not understand each other, except for those few who have been in both worlds.
So. My vapaversary is June 5th. That's one year off of tobacco. It wasn't totally easy. But it was doable. And at the very least- I'm no longer cross-addicted to the other addictive elements in tobacco.
The above is a rationalization. One I can live with. But wouldn't promote to anyone who can successfully abstain.
I submit these comments to you- respectfully. Let the abstinence people do their thing (without our involvement). They have blinders on- but they are blinders needed to succeed. Let them.
I am not speaking as a moderator here, this is not an official ECF post. I'm speaking for only myself.
Please. Please listen to me.
As a person who has been drug free since November 23rd, 1982- I was very very troubled that a number of you guys went over to that stop smoking forum. I know people had very good intentions, but please hear me out.
It is better to be nicotine free. Let's face it. And many of the reasons people here vape are because they cannot escape a nicotine addiction. This is fine. It's accepted by our community, vendors, in some cases our physicians, and the sites that host our communities.
The above we can all agree on.
However, an e-cigarette needs to be *found* as a solution, not promoted to people who are in the process of withdrawal- which is why that thread got a violent reaction for the forum members over there.
I remember being in rehab in 1982, I was 17. And if someone had offered me methadone I would have put a knife in them. Actually I would have whittled a chair leg down with my teeth, hand sharpened a knife out of a plastic spork, and managed to insert it into their skull- repeatedly.
And there's a good reason for that.
"Addiction and recovery" communities generally tend to reflect 12 step programs (Like AA, NA, CA, ACOA, OA) in the exercise of complete abstinence. The mantra in those communities is complete abstinence- or you "Start all over".
It's a good mantra to be honest.
However, those strategies do not work for all people. But you don't go to an AA meeting and tell those guys that. Having sat around those tables for years, I must tell you, the people there will be prone to physically assault you. And it's for good reason- they are strong enough to make it off the addiction with just community, prayer, and willpower. And they are quite irritable in the process of doing that. And they don't *ever* want to intake the addictive chemical again.
That being said....
We know several things about what is *known* and/or *unknown* about e-cigs. We, who have permanently altered our brain plasticity with nicotine, have altered brain plasticity it too far to recover, or otherwise lack will power or are dealing with mental conditions, shouldn't be throwing PV's in the face of those who are successfully attempting or succeeding at ceasing smoking through abstinence.
That was a long sentence. Sorry.
But that is my two cents. I have as much fun hanging out with my vaping people, as I do hanging out with my 12 step people. The rules are different. We are replacement therapy. They are abstinence. We are never going to hold a combined "Sunday Brunch". There will be no "Abstinence Dance- Vaping Allowed". We will not understand each other, except for those few who have been in both worlds.
So. My vapaversary is June 5th. That's one year off of tobacco. It wasn't totally easy. But it was doable. And at the very least- I'm no longer cross-addicted to the other addictive elements in tobacco.
The above is a rationalization. One I can live with. But wouldn't promote to anyone who can successfully abstain.
I submit these comments to you- respectfully. Let the abstinence people do their thing (without our involvement). They have blinders on- but they are blinders needed to succeed. Let them.
Following these two threads is more than impossible now but I'm fairly certain the point of diminishing returns has been well passed. I'm thinking maybe just laying off for a while and let market forces come to play as the total number of vapers increase with or without 'their' opinions. Then they'll naturally drift in our direction as a form of self-preservation ~or~ they will maintain a hardliner position and wither. No? -Magnus
I'm an emotional person. Always have worn my heart on my sleeve. LOL I think I'm just drained from reading all their crap. It's been ongoing for how long now??? You're right, I shouldn't let it get to me, but I feel like I'm watching "my" family get bashed repeatedly for no reason other than it doesn't fit a few of the zealots' definition of "worthy to being considered quit." I've hardly posted there today. I'm glad that you came over there though. It takes a strong person, and I know that you're the prime candidate to handle the crap that's going on over there. Thanks!!!
I couldn't have said that better. And we're a lot alike in that. But like Trbo said it is much more fun if you can stay relaxed and just consider the source of all that nonsense. By the way how many many pages ago did we surpass our 15 minutes?
I kind of equate it to Kathy Bates in Misery calling us you dirty doo doo heads. Know what I mean? What a character.
I do have to agree with that. Maybe he avoids the place like the plague. I would understand.
Just as long as all she is doing is name calling..
-Magnus
Thanks .. Priceless
But even within ECF we don't agree on that. I don't agree. I think Kristen has said she doesn't agree. I'm not sure how many people actually believe that nicotine has more positive effects than negative overall but then the same debate happens in society about red meat, sugar, red wine, etc.
I agree per my 'market' solution post.. it'll come to them in time.
Partially agree... there are some who are going to go back out. They know it. And provided an alternative they latch onto it. Hence all the new smokers and coffee addicts in AA for example. Vaping to smoking isn't the same thing but it might save some that go back out repeatedly anyway.
Completely agree... addicts have to find their own way specifically.
I think the issue here is some of the blatant hostility and judgement being thrown at vapers. You address that but I think it's a far cry from going into a 12-step meeting and vaping in their faces. And, frankly, some of the hostility looks like that's exactly how they're reacting. Like John has been blowing strawberry-cheesecake vapors into their faces. -Magnus
Perhaps instead of a sub forum and all that just a link to ecf from their site. That would actually be fine with me cause trying to keep up with two sites is tiring. And with that I still believe our goal would have been met.
Caffeine and nicotine have been my addictions. Growing up in the 60's and 70's I have dabbled with things but i don't know if I was addicted to any of them. It was easy to let them go.
So there is a good chance those of you who have been in "programs" have a much better perspective on this.
I will wait for others to comment.
Let QSMB deal with their own issues? Also fine with me.
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Perhaps it will come to me in time .. so far I have read and read it .. not enough time yet
Question then cozz,
Some of the people there speak of abstinence and some talk about NRTs. Clearly in the areas of NRTs, PVs fall in that group. I'm happy they have an abstinence group and I'm happy about their endeavors to get off nicotine. However, in all fairness, if they are to endorse the usage of the patch, the gum, Chantix, or Zyban; it's unfair and prejudicial to exclude something else that may be used for the same purpose, quitting smoking and nicotine.
While I can certainly understand your points about addiction, addicts, addiction therapy and abstinence; that board and the vendor site attached to it are not complimentary nor are they exclusive to the abstinence school of thought. By the mere nature of having threads discussing and supporting members using pharmaceutical solutions or the patch or the gum to wean themselves off nicotine, it's not abstinence. When the website that is attached to the forum itself sells products that both provide harm reduction and reduced nicotine or NRT-like results, it's also contrary to an abstinence message.
Some of the people there speak of abstinence and some talk about NRTs. Clearly in the areas of NRTs, PVs fall in that group. I'm happy they have an abstinence group and I'm happy about their endeavors to get off nicotine. However, in all fairness, if they are to endorse the usage of the patch, the gum, Chantix, or Zyban; it's unfair and prejudicial to exclude something else that may be used for the same purpose, quitting smoking and nicotine.
While I can certainly understand your points about addiction, addicts, addiction therapy and abstinence; that board and the vendor site attached to it are not complimentary nor are they exclusive to the abstinence school of thought. By the mere nature of having threads discussing and supporting members using pharmaceutical solutions or the patch or the gum to wean themselves off nicotine, it's not abstinence. When the website that is attached to the forum itself sells products that both provide harm reduction and reduced nicotine or NRT-like results, it's also contrary to an abstinence message.
On that note, I do understand the visceral reaction some of the members over there give off when a PV is discussed, however it's hypocritical to say "We will allow the discussion of these approved forms of NRT, but not this one, simply because we don't like it". Another note, they seem to have thrown conspiracy theories around as to why things are happening the way they are, despite facts to the contrary when the easier more logical answer has been explained to them. Honestly, I can't understand why they would do that unless they were trying to enrage more people through fear and misinformation. If they manage control of their board through fear and misinformation, that would explain why they have an aversion to PVs or anything they don't understand. The same was applied in the Old World when people challenged that the world was not flat or that the Earth revolved around the Sun.
fonedude do you sleep at all?
You've had a bit of a busy nite I see.
Since retiring I keep all kinds of crazy hours. I go through different cycles it seems. Since I stopped smoking I have kind of been in an up all night and nap during the day cycle. Subject to change at any moment. LOL
Oh for Pete's sake!!! Why do we want to be there again??? I remember someone commenting way back on how little traffic that site gets...wondering if its worth all this hatefulness to let people know of this option on a site that is barely on the radar... I can honestly say I can't think of a single person I have met in person....ever... that acted as hateful and petty as some of these people do.
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