FDA Bill Godshall commentary on FDA deeming proposals

[Stosh]

There are some very interesting ideas here. What if nic retailers pooled their resources to get unflavored nic approved. That's it. I think the EU caps it at 20%. That would be the starting point. You could say unflavored doesn't attract kids, better for public health, yada, yada.

eliquid retailers could prepare to sell flavoring only. Anyone can get PG/VG to mix to their ratio. I don't think there's a rational arguement against retailers selling flavors, that FDA approves already with 0% nic. Heck, I'll figure out a reciepe for muffins if they want....

The nicotine availability is the choke point, take away the nic and vaping is banned. Take away flavors from the retailers and they will dry up (exit in FDA speak). The sales on e-liquids is where the profit margin is for the vendors. DIY costs about .05 per mL to make, the vendors can sell it up to .50 to $1.00 per mL, far higher profit margin than hardware.

I would shudder to think my nicotine suppliers were surviving on the bottle I buy every 6 to 9 months for DIY.

 

[Vaslovik]

EDIT: After re-watching I realized it would be better to find something else to use to show the FDA's terrible tactics they have used in the past. That's the biggest issue when it comes the regulations, the FDA does in fact over step it's bounds on numerous occasions. They really don't use their own research and instead rely on outside studies to make decisions, of course, which really is a conflict of interest.

I quite agree, and for a better idea just who and what the FDA really are I'd suggest watching this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfBPgM7vOBA

 

[TrueNews]

The nicotine availability is the choke point, take away the nic and vaping is banned. Take away flavors from the retailers and they will dry up (exit in FDA speak). The sales on e-liquids is where the profit margin is for the vendors. DIY costs about .05 per mL to make, the vendors can sell it up to .50 to $1.00 per mL, far higher profit margin than hardware.

I would shudder to think my nicotine suppliers were surviving on the bottle I buy every 6 to 9 months for DIY.

Why would the USA, coming out of a recession, cut down one of its booming industries?

You cannot buy E-cigs (I hate that description) with nicotine in OZ - never have been able to.
BUT - our TGA (= your FDA) have always allowed personal import of nicotine and where do you think most Aussies get it from?

I did notice today that VZ were out of stock of 55 gallon drums - is that a bad sign?

 

[TrueNews]

From the land of Plain Packaging for cigarettes and arguably the most draconian anti tobacco laws on our planet.

April 2014 - Western Australia
E-Cigs banned by the appellate division of the Supreme Court because they are NOT a TOBACCO PRODUCT but they look like one when you use them.

So, who is right, both our laws are based on English law.

 

[Stosh]

Why would the USA, coming out of a recession, cut down one of its booming industries?

You cannot buy E-cigs (I hate that description) with nicotine in OZ - never have been able to.
BUT - our TGA (= your FDA) have always allowed personal import of nicotine and where do you think most Aussies get it from?

I did notice today that VZ were out of stock of 55 gallon drums - is that a bad sign?

Our FDA is all about saving us from ourselves, "saving the children", and with their and with their view of their own influence - saving the world....

Regulations limiting nicotine would apply for any source, import included. What's happening with vendors is a guess at this point, none of them should feel very secure until the final draft of regulations is published.

 

[TrueNews]

I am old enough to have viewed footage of the Vietnam war.
On a couple of clips it looked like they were vaping from the barrel of a gun.

Does that mean they are going to ban guns ?

 

[ad356]

the stuff coming out of that gun barrel wasn't nicotine, lol. vaping certainly didnt exist in 1970's

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

The nicotine availability is the choke point, take away the nic and vaping is banned. Take away flavors from the retailers and they will dry up (exit in FDA speak). The sales on e-liquids is where the profit margin is for the vendors. DIY costs about .05 per mL to make, the vendors can sell it up to .50 to $1.00 per mL, far higher profit margin than hardware.

I would shudder to think my nicotine suppliers were surviving on the bottle I buy every 6 to 9 months for DIY.

Running an online business doesn't cost much. It's the B&Ms who really need the e-liquid margins. DIY is still scary to a lot of folks. Based on my own limited experience w/ JC, I can also say that it's not that easy to come up with somthing comparable to what the experts can do. And it took me a good 6-8 weeks before I was willing to try DIY.

B&Ms have been hugely successful in increasing the pool of vapers, by providing the tasting tables and the equipment advice. Most experienced vapers speak in shorthand which isn't that easy to understand for noobs. Despite the efforts of people like Grimm Green and Phil Busardo (and others) to try to teach "Vaping 101," getting beyond cigAlikes is still difficult for someone who doesn't have a local helpful B&M. Four months ago, one guy in my local B&M gave me a few pointers. Now I probably know more than he does (he's not an ex-smoker, nor a particularly avid vaper: just a good retail businessperson who knows his products).

I have to confess that my own record of converting the smokers whom I know has been pretty poor. I like to think that I could've done better with a tasting table, etc. Although I had an uphill battle, since their concept of vaping was too influenced by their experience with cigAlikes.

Once the special-purpose vape shops die off, that's going to mark the end of vaping-as-cessation. Most new vapers will be dual users. This will in turn allow the CDC to accumulate the needed data to fully justify the argument that vaping encourages "more smoking, not less." Not that they ever needed or cared about good science in this context. But it will be there, when the time comes to move towards full "medicaliation". By then, any remaining non-BT cigAlike co.s will be absorbed into BT, and things will be back to where they were four or five years ago in the US.

I feel as if I'm one of the last people in the door, so-to-speak. Although I'm sure there will be at least another few hudnred thousand who get in behind me, before it slams shut.