Boycot Starbucks
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Why insist on throwing out barbs and digs for no good reason .. ??
That's why. Someone comes along and grossly mis-characterizes the whole debate. Then, on the basis of his own made up mis-characterization, he haughtily ridicules his own straw man by calling it silly. So I'm going to ask if he is in the wrong thread.
At no time in this whole thread did anyone ever once dispute a business owners right to make up and enforce his own rules. There was no "unruly customer" involved. No one defended any "unruly" behavior.
What would be the reaction if I posted something like:
"This whole debate is silly. If a vaper wants to vape while sitting in a tree in the park, he has a right to."
I would expect to be asked if I was lost and on the wrong thread.
If he wants to debate whether a business owner has the right to refuse service to an "unruly customer", he can start a thread to discuss that.
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And I'm still waiting for him to give me one example of calling someone ignorant or doing any of the things he accuses me of, on the basis of differing views. I even offered to apologize to the offended party. But I can't find an example. Evidently, the mods haven't found an example. And all I've gotten from him is crickets.
Now, you pile on as well.
So, who is insulting who?
Mr Sailorman;
You have not offended ME at all. Not now and not in the past.
I have witnessed your actions on many threads over the last couple of months.
I have read posters telling you that yo "need to chill out", "need to take a chill pill" and other variations of the same on more than one occasion. If I dig deep enough to find it, I believe I read someone tell you once that it is time for your zannax.
You sir, seem to thrive on turmoil. I have witnessed very few times where you agreed with anything that you did not personally say. I have seen you over and over copy and paste entire pages and submit your entire page of response to discredit the OP.
You seemingly enough love to bash and be bashed, why? maybe you need the attention. There is no doubt you are an intelligent individual. There is no doubt you have done your research. I have no doubt that you do care about the vaping community and your fellow vapers, As long as they do exactly as you say and let you stand at the top of the hill.
I do not disagree with most of what you say. What you don't seem to get is that you have a way of saying it that is belittling to others. Perhaps you are used to dominating those around you. I guess that is just your personality. so be it. We do recognize that you seem to be the only one who knows anything, we get it.
Let me rephrase that, I get it, I do not want to speak for anyone else. I don't reply to a lot of your page long postings because it is clear to me that you have taken the time to find quotable qoutes on the internet and copied and pasted them to make your point. I would not take that away from you.
As far as the original point, I will not boycott Starbucks because they have a corporate wide policy against electronic cigarette use. I don't go there anyway because I personally don't like the taste of the coffee so for me it is a mute point. As a business owner, however I do understand the blanket policy against it. It is not their job to defend you against the patrons who do not understand what you are doing. That takes time out of their day. Starbucks is in the coffee business, not in the vaper education business, it is not their battle, it is ours.
It would make more sense to attempt to educate the owners of Starbucks as to the alleged harmlessness of it and try to persuade them to change their policy. I can tell you though that I also would not let you walk in to my place with the parrot on your shoulder, and I would probably not foresee enough parrot owners boycotting me to affect my business. I agree that I would be nicer about it than ..... The employee was nicer than that according to the OP.
this will be replied to with quote and retorted to with a page long reply I'm sure, but I have to go to work so I won't see it.
I am sure that it will be discounted as an idiot response as usual, but that's OK with me, I anticipate that. I did , however want to wake up the "crickets". I will let you have the last word. This thread has been so far removed from the OP thread with your ranting and raving that at this point it is senseless to continue. It is now all about you. I ask that a moderator should rename it the I am Sailorman the emperor thread.
I want you to have a good day,
Try to be nice to the other humans.
as they told me in the service- "one on these men could save your life one day... or not"
and goodbye
While I appreciate you responding and being quiclk to think that you are one upping someone by asking me for reference I did not post because honestly Sailor my first encounter with you was on the thread about chargers. I had fun with you in that thread bantering back and fourth but honestly i quit that thread because I fealt like the discussion was turning ugly much as this one has. Which is why i have stopped visiting it. You are so forceful with your views that you refuse to even recognize any point made by anyone unless they are just "liking" your post.
I could have cited reference in this post but honestly I came here for friendly conversation and the occasional FRIENDLY debate. People back off of these threads because you throw the breaks on just short of being outright insulting and indiginant.
I came here to join friends with common interests , not to argue heated debates about vaping. Poeple dropped out because getting worked up over a post arguing with people over the internet is unproductive and only leads to hard feelings when people pose themselves so passionately against any subject they form an opinion on.
I asked you respectfully and instead, because, others agreed with me you speak condescendingly toward them and my statements. I dont want to argue with you or anyone else when the discussion begins to heat up and tempers seeth through the words they wright I move on. Life is too damned short to make enemies over vaping. I would rather walk away offering you a beer than to argue over hypothetical or trivial issues. In my own eyes I am arguing with another fellow vapor over common interest even if while playing devils advocate. Does winining the dabte get me anything? What friendships could I lose by speaking so harshly? What friggin sense does that make?
I refuse to call you out , out of respect because, I didnt say it to make an example, I asked as a friend. Here is my olive branch. Take it or stick me in the eye with it. Your call ...
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I don't smoke, and I don't expect to be treated as a smoker. I also don't give a flying rats .... about someone who is calling me a "sniveling, craven bundles of stigmatized marshmallow goo". His opinion isn't worth anything, he's just being a jerk.
He's screaming about his rights, but seems to think that people running a business should have no say in how that business is run. Anything goes! No rules!
Would you rather I respond to a point taken out of context? What is "discrediting" to a poster to respond point by point. If he said something worth responding to, it's not discrediting to respond to it. In fact, it's a compliment. In posts like this, yes, I'm going to respond as appropriate. I won't let BS go unchallenged simply because it's scattered in pieces throughuot a long post.
I'm not interested in standing at the "top of the hill", nor being bashed. When have I ever demanded anyone do "exactly as I say"? You throw out these accusations based on nothing than resentment. How can I demand anything of anyone? If I'm that omnipotent, may be I should be standing at the top of the hill.
More BS. There is not one single example in any of my posts of copying and pasting anything other than very brief, attributed quotes or data, just like everyone else does. I'm flattered that you think I'm quotable. But I do not plagiarize and it's pretty hypocritical of you to jump my case for belittling others as you accuse me of plagiarism. So, I challenge you to find one single case of plagiarism in any of my posts. This is the second time someone has accused me of that (maybe it was you the first time as well) and I resent it deeply. I don't write in bite-sized bumper sticker phrases. I'm not part of the attention span deficient crowd. If you can't believe someone could write more than 50 words at a time without copying and pasting from the internet, that is your issue. Don't read my posts.
Fine, no problem. See, I'm not demanding anyone boycott them or not. I will withold my support, even if I did like their burned coffee. That is my right and that's what this entire debate was about, despite the efforts to turn it into a debate about the "right" of a corporation to do what they want. NO ONE in this entire thread ever challenged Charbuck's right to ban vaping. NO ONE. Yet, again and again, people try to act as if that's not the case. They have a right to ban vaping. We have a right to withhold support or boycott them. You have a right to do as you please. There should be no debate, yet some keep insisting on creating one by contending that vapers have no right to boycott them because they're exercising their rights. I'm sorry. Woolworth's was exercising their rights. Pepsi was exercising their rights. The Bus line in Selma was exercising it's rights. The California grape growers were exercising their rights.
I wouldn't expect to be allowed to bring my parrot into your establishment. There are legitimate resons for that. But what if I had a realistic looking stuffed parrot on my shoulder? Would you throw me out because someone might mistake it for a real parrot? The Starbucks employee was nicer than ...., but the OP wasn't rude either, which was what the previous poster tried to claim in the post that elicited the response that seems to have set you off.
And, it may seem obvious, but corporations are not educable except by monetary means.
Darn right it will be retorted to with a reply as long as necessary. I have been attacked and flamed by a group of the same 3 or 4 attack dogs for several days now. I'm not just going to clam up. You write a diatribe filled with false accusations and I'm supposed to respond in a line or two, else risk being accused of whatever it is you're accusing me of. You throw these allegations out there and can substantiate nothing except by referring to a handful of other posters who aren't articulate or logical enough to come up with anything more than "take a chill pill". Yeah, that really shuts down the discussion from me. A real checkmate move. (Oh, sorry. Was that "belittling"?)
I suggest you try to take your own advice. Ease up on the groundless accusations and have yourself a nice day too.
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Who called you that? What makes you think I was referring to you? If you don't expect to be treated as a smoker, then you are obviously not the type of person to whom I am referring. That doesn't mean such people don't exist.
And, more to the topic, how many times do I have to repeat myself that I fully recognize the right of a business owner to ban whatever he wants, within the law. It's perfectly legal for Starbucks to ban vaping. I've never said anything to the contrary, despite the efforts of some of you to make the debate about a business owner's rights and despite some being unfamiliar with the legal principle of "public accommodation". That said, some posters think that a public accommodation has the same rights as a private club or residence. It does not. That is not my opinion. That is long established legal precedent. If the term "public accommodation" sounds funny or unfamiliar, that is not my fault and it's not a justification for ridicule.
Guys I ask all of you with sincerity, Please stop. I didn't intend to inflame you at one another. It was my fault for not asking Sailor in Private my request.
I am sorry Sailor, I do owe you this public apology, it was pretty thoughtless of me to post this public opinion and didnt want a pile on. This was the last thing I wanted and i hope you forgive me for the mistake. It wasnt suppose to turn out like this. This is the last I will post on this it is out of hand.
I am sorry Sailor, I do owe you this public apology, it was pretty thoughtless of me to post this public opinion and didnt want a pile on. This was the last thing I wanted and i hope you forgive me for the mistake. It wasnt suppose to turn out like this. This is the last I will post on this it is out of hand.
No need to apologize. We'll let it rest. I've made my position on the topic perfectly clear to anyone who can read. No hard feelings, newq. I won't be posting on this thread again either. The nitpickers and flamers can have at it.
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