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Canada Customs and My Z ATTY Pro

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shades

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Project Guy... no.. I wish it was me I would love to have that talent and fortitude to get past the OMFG this thing is SO itchy to get my beard to that state :D

FWIW on the paranoia some might be getting... it took almost 3 weeks for my juice to arrive, but it did arrive. I was going to post this to give you hope Project guy a while ago ( aka when it was more than what you were waiting ) but now posting it for others to maybe get that piece of mind.

I am pretty excited about today I hope your ( our ) vapemail arrives!!!
 

Projectguy

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I finally got through to Canada Customs.

They advised that the Customs officer that received the package referred it to Health Canada for inspection. I've called Health Canada for information but got their answering machine but left my contact details anyway.

Hoping someone out there can provide me with any solid information concerning the law and devices I can use when I talk to these people.
 

SloHand

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The ZAP comes packages pre-wicked and pre-wire. I also presume that it was test fired and would therefore have had a small drop of either straight PG or VG. Why would they us a nic or flavored juice just to test fire? and Provape (hopefully) didn't through in a bottle of nic juice as a 'thank-you' for ordering thing. It's not for resale .....

So if there is no nic what the bahjesus is health canada going to do with it??? That sucks big time for you Projectguy .... Going to fly my flag at half mast for you today :(
 

Jables

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My Ecto Plasma made it to customs today and was cleared within 15 minutes. I really wonder how they end up stopping the packages that they do...

Edit: May have spoke too soon, USPS said Custom Clearance, but when I tracked the package on canada post it said International item arrived in Canada and will be reviewed by Customs.
 
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tygertyger

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Why would they us a nic or flavored juice just to test fire? and Provape (hopefully) didn't through in a bottle of nic juice as a 'thank-you' for ordering thing. It's not for resale .....

So if there is no nic what the bahjesus is health canada going to do with it??? That sucks big time for you Projectguy .... Going to fly my flag at half mast for you today :(

Agreed.... as they don't know what the habits of the purchaser will be (you might be 0 nic), they couldn't use a nic juice for test firing. And even if they did throw in a bonus bottle of nic juice, the only thing the authorities could do, is seize the juice. The atomizer is legal and should be sent on without a hitch... a freebie wasn't on your order, so it's not really your responsibility. Delaying the atomizer for a bonus juice would be a punitive and as I understand it illegal misuse of their 'power'.
 

Projectguy

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Agreed.... as they don't know what the habits of the purchaser will be (you might be 0 nic), they couldn't use a nic juice for test firing. And even if they did throw in a bonus bottle of nic juice, the only thing the authorities could do, is seize the juice. The atomizer is legal and should be sent on without a hitch... a freebie wasn't on your order, so it's not really your responsibility. Delaying the atomizer for a bonus juice would be a punitive and as I understand it illegal misuse of their 'power'.

Thanks Tyger. The one thing I would love to nail down is "The atomizer is legal.." Do you have a specific reference to that? I would love to be able to quote chapter and verse.
 

cactusgirl

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Thanks Tyger. The one thing I would love to nail down is "The atomizer is legal.." Do you have a specific reference to that? I would love to be able to quote chapter and verse.

I am not sure if there is specific documentation anywhere...you can maybe check the casaa pages or ask one of the regular posters there to help you with some relevant points that you can bring up should the need arise. Also, you can check this response to a similar post from a few weeks back --> http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/canada-forum/342331-health-canadas-reasoning-e-cig-ban.html#post7521655
 

tygertyger

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Projectguy..... finding that information in black and white seems to be on par with nailing jello to the wall. I found reference to a fellow named Dr. Carl Phillips (UofA) who is on the director's board of CASAA (Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association). He seems to be rather an expert on this subject, but I'm having trouble finding reference to his original quotes, and sources to the original legislation/regulations..... all I have so far is this second (or third really)-hand quote where he indicates the devices have no rules imposed on their use:
Electronic Cigarettes Canada - Canadian Laws

Still hunting...... this is info we should all be readily armed with....
 

Projectguy

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Projectguy..... finding that information in black and white seems to be on par with nailing jello to the wall. I found reference to a fellow named Dr. Carl Phillips (UofA) who is on the director's board of CASAA (Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association). He seems to be rather an expert on this subject, but I'm having trouble finding reference to his original quotes, and sources to the original legislation/regulations..... all I have so far is this second (or third really)-hand quote where he indicates the devices have no rules imposed on their use:
Electronic Cigarettes Canada - Canadian Laws

Still hunting...... this is info we should all be readily armed with....

Tyger you are definitely a TIGER. Thanks I think I will go with what I know.

It is not a medical device.
It is not for resale
There is no Nicotine in the device so

Hand it over
 

Projectguy

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I am not sure if there is specific documentation anywhere...you can maybe check the casaa pages or ask one of the regular posters there to help you with some relevant points that you can bring up should the need arise. Also, you can check this response to a similar post from a few weeks back --> http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/canada-forum/342331-health-canadas-reasoning-e-cig-ban.html#post7521655

Thanks Cactus: After reading yours and Tyger's material there could be a silver lining. What we need is a US company to set up a subsidiary (not necessarily wholly owned) and begin manufacturing it doesn't matter what all that matters is that it is 100% vape related. If HC shut it down they would be in violation of NAFTA.....

Needs some work ....
 

fourtytwo

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Thanks Cactus: After reading yours and Tyger's material there could be a silver lining. What we need is a US company to set up a subsidiary (not necessarily wholly owned) and begin manufacturing it doesn't matter what all that matters is that it is 100% vape related. If HC shut it down they would be in violation of NAFTA.....

Needs some work ....

Sounds simple enough...
 

RollandOfGilead

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I finally got through to Canada Customs.

They advised that the Customs officer that received the package referred it to Health Canada for inspection. I've called Health Canada for information but got their answering machine but left my contact details anyway.

Hoping someone out there can provide me with any solid information concerning the law and devices I can use when I talk to these people.

Finally a bit of progress...
Since when does HC inspect electronics? Better not buy that DVD player off ebay...lol
 

Projectguy

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As a preamble I apologize for making this so long but I honestly beleive it is important that we know what happens and what our rights are so here goes.

Ok boys and girls gather 'round for the latest instalment of the ...... I haven't thought of a catchy name for this reality show yet anyway.

Today I spoke with not one but 2 people at the HC Customs Inspection Team in Mississauga, ON. I'll do this in point form so it doesn't get too wordy:

First some background

  • HC returned my second call in as many days
  • First spoke to the duty officer then to her superior
  • They were both courtious and friendly and I made a point of recognizing that they were doing their jobs and were not responsible for making policy
  • I called out the Superior on the statement that he made saying that "some e-cigs explode in your face". That part of the discussion got me excitedd in a not nice way
  • The HC inspection Team in Mississauga has the responsibility of dealing with all the packages that are referred to them from 3 reciving locations in Canada for all international mail.
  • The team is small so in all fairness thay are swamped and that's the reason for the backlog
  • The people I spoke to were "management" and not in the inspection station so they could not walk over and find my ZAP
  • The people I spoke to agreed to at least "flag" the item for expidited processing…I'm to call them next week if I haven't heard from them they even gave me their direct numbers

And Now for the "juicy" part

  • Both people I spoke to knew what they were dealing with, in a fashion, "it is an e-cigarette". I guess that was what was on the computer list when they called it up by the tracking number.
  • They tried to get me to say that it was a medical device; both of them in 2 separate calls.
  • I actually had to laugh thinking of Mike (Zen) and Phil (Busardo) in surgical scrubs building ZAPs and wicks

    [*]I told them exactly what it was:
  • Definitely NOT a medical device
  • Definitely it is a component part of an e-cig
  • Absolutely no nicotine involved
  • It was NOT for resale
  • It is for my personal use

    [*]I then asked the Superior "on what grounds did you then have the right to hold my device?"
  • He did not respond directly instead explained their process which goes something like this:
  • An inspector examines the package
  • Just like a Customs officer he/she has the right under Canadian Law to open the package
  • From the packaging and or contents i.e., instructions, pictures he / she can make the determination that it is or is not a medical device. It was never explained to me what type of training was involved to make such an assessment (people should send me a list of questions to ask them for my next call)
  • Now this one surprised the beegeez out of me...If the officer so chooses to do so, he / she can then go to the seller's web site to assist him / her in making that determination. I wonder if the fact that a number of the Zenesis mods are made from surgical stainless steel means that they would therefore qualify as medical devices.:facepalm:
  • The inspector then determines, in his / her own judgement right then and there that the device is or is not a medical device.
  • if it is "not determined to be a medical device then it is released".
  • If it is determined to be a medical device then two things happen. The first is obvious the device is returned to the sender. The second thing that happens is interesting and gives me a modicum of comfort that the rule of law does apply. All that to say that by law HC must then advise the importer (in this case that's me) why and under what provisions of the act and regulations my device was returned to the sender.

I'm almost hoping that they return the ZAP to ProVape so we can get this in front of the media and legal counsel.

So that does it for now I will be keeping you advised.

Stay tuned........... Vape hard
 
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SloHand

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Smoking cessation is one of those no-nos's .... don't say that. Going out for blood, I think that's okay :) If Provape and Zen are following this thread then here is a suggestion, import to a Canadian location and reship from that point of origin for Canadian customers .... There is an R/C supplier that I deal with based in the USA that does this and it's awesome. Not a reseller but a Canadian warehouse that fulfills his web orders that reside in Canada.

Mike (Zen), contact me, I'll warehouse for you and fulfill your Canadian orders :)
 
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