Cartomizerfillinator

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Devonmoonshire

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Small wide mouth glass bottles can be found in the paint department of most hobby stores for mixing colors. I found they worked great for mixing flavors until my shipment of dropper bottles arrived. :) I would think they would be perfect for the "fillinator".


p.s. I am developing a huge crush on you Vapian lol

Hehehe Oh yeah, I agree, I could just go up to the minimart here and grab something very cheap and easy to fill with, but I have syringes for that with blunt tip needles from madvapes, so I got the filling part down to a science, I do however Love the idea of using the the syringe and carto cover to clean them, and for my next trick I am taking it one step further and using one of my meat injection syringes along with a surgical rubber tube to create an even larger amount of pressure to force the hot water through. I will post on how well that works once I get it built :D

Nate aka Darth Vapor
 

Vapian

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(A quick "ask": if you Quote this message in this thread, please remove the picture / "IMG" links first so the images aren't being re-posted every time. :) Thanks!)

OK, here are the pics from my messing about this evening!

First, a pic of what I envision would be the "kit":

IMG_0853_2011_Sep.jpg


It's basically a couple of different types of female Luer Lock to 1/4" barb adapters (one type 300 and another type 500, which is slightly larger in diameter than the 300) with specifically-sized tubing slipped over it.

The type 300 barb adapter/small tube then receives a larger tube that fits at least 510 and 808 cartomizers (both standard size and slightly larger, as in the "clear" cartomizers) while the type 500 barb/small tube receives a slightly larger tube that fits at least 510 Mega cartos, GoGo and Echo-E cartomizers.

All of the tubing is a slightly softer grade of vinyl than I've commonly found and the inside diameters seem to be more precise and consistent. It grips very well to itself and when the sizes are matched up correctly they provide a very good liquid-tight seal. This makes them more difficult to assemble, but it's worth it.

The tube in the middle, I must admit is not a completely original idea and was inspired somewhat by a device that seems to have been inspired by mine, so I've no qualms in improving on it. :) It fits on the other end of a 510/808 type carto and can be used to either direct the flow of water when cleaning, or used to insert into a bottle or vial for filling. It is much shorter than the one that inspired it, just long enough to hit bottom on a 30ml bottle. That makes it much easier to control and minimizes the chance of tipping the bottle. It's use is completely optional. I have an idea for it that might actually improve cleaning/flushing but need to test before I can say for sure.

The REALLY cool thing about this is that the adapters just screw on to any standard Luer Lock syringe you happen to have, like so:

IMG_0846_2011_Sep.jpg


... Or, if all you have is a standard Luer slip tip... No problem! It still works!

IMG_0848_2011_Sep.jpg


... Though I must admit, it's a little more likely to "spit" off the end of the syringe if you're really cranking on the plunger.

Since these work with both locking and non-locking Luer tips, if I do get around to selling these as kits I'm thinking there's really no need to sell a syringe with it... or is there? What do you think? It'd be great to have one less part to source....

This is what the whole deal looks like with a syringe (510/808 style):

IMG_0843_2011_Sep.jpg


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These will work with anything from 3ml up to 60ml or larger, though I'd recommend something in the 10ml range for filling and 30ml or so for cleaning (60ml is my personal favorite).

Oh... and did I mention that the middle tubey thing actually seals into the end of an Echo-E cartomizer so it can be used for filling?

IMG_0855_2011_Sep.jpg


And of course, both of the main adapters work with the Bottlefillinator as well. :)

All in all, I'm pretty pleased with this iteration of the -Innator concept. It's a bit more difficult to source parts and put together if you're doing it yourself since none of them are available in small quantities (generally 10' minimum for the tubing and lots of 25 minimum for the Luer adapters), but beyond that it has eliminated the need for any adhesives and is a lot more reliable and versatile. Should be able to make a demo video for it this weekend.

So... what do you guys think?
 
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Vapian

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By the by, here's my plan for getting some of these out there:

At least one of the V2 "kits" is getting shipped out tomorrow to an ECF friend. I'm planning on making at least four more kits available to someone who needs it (possibly due to vision/sight or disability issues) through PIF.

That should leave me enough adapters to make up 19 "full" kits with both adapters plus one that'll handle 510/808 size only (due to breaking a larger adapter during the first build). Or perhaps better, I could split them up into twenty 510/808 type kits (adapter and tubey thing) and 19 510 Mega/GoGo/Echo-E type kits (adapter only). I don't have enough syringes for that many kits, so this would be adapters/tubes only for now.
 
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Vapian

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I'll save you the ebay fee for the first one. PM me paypal addy. :)

Thanks! But I'm not sure I want to do that yet... apparently ECF has some pretty solid supplier rules, and at first glance it would seem that taking money at this time might be breaking them (unless I do it as a Classified, which might work...) and could result in being summarily booted from the forum, which would make me unhappy.

But I will be doing some more reading on the rules this weekend and see what I can find out, in between seeing how long it takes to build a batch of these. :)
 

zoiDman

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Thanks! But I'm not sure I want to do that yet... apparently ECF has some pretty solid supplier rules, and at first glance it would seem that taking money at this time might be breaking them (unless I do it as a Classified, which might work...) and could result in being summarily booted from the forum, which would make me unhappy.

But I will be doing some more reading on the rules this weekend and see what I can find out, in between seeing how long it takes to build a batch of these. :)

It is prudent to review the selling rules regarding the FS/WTB section verses being a registered supplier.

I thought I read on time that the FS/WTB section could only be used to sell personal items and not a manufactured products such as what you have. But I could be completely wrong.

I would send Angus a PM and ask him what the best way for you to proceed.
 

Uncle

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WOW - Talk about modifications to an original idea . . . Ah - the progress of a concept . . .

Now as for input about Kits and Pricing: Just remember this is ONLY My Opinion . . .

First - Pricing:

I already put my 2Cents in before, however I really think this is purely subjective - but the price needs to be realistic. IMO, it should reflect not only the cost you encure now, but throughout the development and what time you have put into getting these kits together.

Now as for the Kits:

This was a little confusing to me - and might be to some others too . . . If I may suggest the following so I can get my idea across a little easier: I would think that if you were to seperate the kits and provide the discription of each including what the cost would be would be good . . .

The first "V2" Kit would include everything someone would need without guessing/looking/going different places to find or purchase - Easy peasy . . . especially good for "newbies" (like me) and who may not know the differences or someone who gets confused as to what a "510/808" or "carts/cartos" are and who don't know the what or how yet. Or even for anyone who just wants to do one stop shopping:

The Complete "V2" Kit for the 510/808 Styles:
Includes: Price:
1 x Luer Lock syringe
1 x Luer Lock adapter/Small tube for ????
1 x Luer Lock adapter/Large tube for ????
1 x Connector Tube
1 x 3ml "e-Juice" Filler Bottle
1 x ? Litter Plastic Bowl for cleaning/filling

The other "V2" Kits would be for those in the know or are DIY'er or want get just the stuff they need without having to look/go different places to find or purchase:

The "V2" Kit for Mega/GoGo/Echo-E type kits (adapters only):
Includes: Price:

The "V2" Kit for 510: Atty/Carts (adapters only):
Includes: Price:

The "V2" Kit for 808: Cartomizers (adapters only):
Includes: Price:


Okay- I'm done and I think you get my idea . . .
 

rkayw

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I would definitely buy a bottle-fillinator from you (one that's ready to rock-in-roll out of the mailbox, fill bottle with my juice and get to filling carto's).

I am OCD about wasted juice (to an extent). I tried the syringe method shown on pg 1 in your video and it does work. I used e-liquid that I no longer vape for testing and found that I would probably hyperventilate at that much of my favorite all day vape flavor being sucked up by a paper towel. That being said...it did work fabulously!! The carto was filled perfectly and vaped very well.

I'll be watching this thread to see if you start selling these. :)
 

Vapian

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OK, I received some polite feedback/information from someone in the know, so I MUST make this clear:

At this time, there are no sales of any kind for Cartomizerfillinator/Cleaninator V2 kits. There is a process and rules in place which I was not fully familiar with and they must be followed, and I fully understand this and will comply. My bad, and my apologies for any lines overstepped before doing the proper research.

So, there will be no sales of these kits until I've done my part and gone through the proper channels and processes.

That said, I still intend to build and distribute at least four kits intended for PIF, free-of-charge... hopefully this weekend.

It's not a big deal to me except for the possibility of having stepped over any lines or on any toes, which was not my intention. It's not like I'm doing this to make bank anyway; it will just likely be easier for some to purchase a kit when they are available than to buy at least 30 feet of tubing and 50 adapters to make one kit. :)

If and when I've got all my ducks in a row on the supplier thing, I'll let you know.

Thanks, everyone!
 

Vapian

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Vapian --
While looking for something else, I stumbled across this site:
Luer to Tube Barb

I didn't see any prices listed, and I don't know if you're interested, but it seems to me to be a faster/simpler way to connect the tube to the syringe, and you could change it from the washing syringe to the filling syringe without taking the carto out of the tubing.

FW, that was a great idea! I've shopping LL adapters of all kinds since the Bottlefillinator was presented trying to figure out what would work best for what. You post is what prompted me to re-evaluate the barbs and do enough research to find the right kind of tubing to make them work.

Kudos, and thanks!
 

Vapian

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Hi Vapian,

So first of all, I just wanted to ensure that I'm setting the proper tone here. My first post was succinct and my two images an intentionally sarcastic display of a two-step process that couldn't be simpler. On looking back, though, I realize that it may have appeared crass or belittling, and that wasn't my intention. Your response doesn't suggest that you took it that way, but we lose tone and expression over this medium, so I probably should have been sure by opening with, "Hey, great idea!"

No problem... we're cool. :)

... one of my prime concerns with this method: To fill it, we're pulling clean liquid in and, we're expelling dirtier juice back out and into our formerly sterile (not really) juice container. That was what prompted my thought of being able to thread the needle onto the carto, with the caveat that we have to stop the second we see juice to minimize the contamination when refilling. The concern being: What is the "dirt" inside of them?
* Is it burned wick/filler material?
* Is it excess food coloring stripped from the repeated use of colored juice?
* A sinister plague that would, if it were to leak out of the mouthpiece, most certainly turn the ill-informed imbiber into a flesh craving zombie?
At some point we also have to be resigned to the fact that these are disposable.

Well, I've seen a lot of zombie movies and so far Patient Zero has yet to be a vaper, so... I'll take the risk. :)

I would hope that when filling the subject carto is either new or cleaned, so getting something in the nicquid should not be much of a concern unless one is filling a carto that's been filled and used but not yet cleaned, in which case that could be very valid point.

Personally, I would try to pay attention to the carto's "health" and if it's starting to not vape well, I would probably put it in the "to be cleaned" pile and grab another for filling.

It doesn't matter how well a tool is designed or built, the person using it still has to think for themselves. :)
 

Vapian

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Hey there, folks!

I just realized that while I had posted some pictures, I had not posted the "build" video for the Cartomizerfillinator / Cartomizercleaninator V2, so... you'll find it after the bump!

The video describes everything needed to build two sizes that should cover a majority of cartomizers out there, for real and not just 'cause I say so. :) Someone PLEASE let me know if you have a carto you use often that this won't work with, and if you can get a sample to me you can be sure that I will work on it.

I know I've said this before, but I do hope to post some of these on PIF Treasure Chest soon! Since the parts only sell in quantity I have about 10 spare full kits ("normal" 9mm and "large" 10mm adapters) already made and parts to make about 25 more. First things first, I want to get a video up that demos basic use for filling & cleaning a little more concisely so anyone who gets one from PIF/Treasure chest will have access to a good demonstration.

So... enjoy the build video, and let me know what you think!




P.S. There are some shout-outs near the end of the vid to those who have provided most excellent feedback and shared ideas in this thread. Thanks not just to them but to all of you!
 

Vapian

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If you've been interested in checking out one of these but haven't sprung for the pieces parts, check out the PIF Group Treasure Chest thread!

I have about 10 already made and can make maybe 25 more with what I have, so I'm giving some away in that thread (some with conditions, some not). One or two will be offered up once or twice a week for the next little while. If you're new to PIF and Treasure Chest, be sure to read the rules before you get started!

For those who do get one via PIF/TC and may not be familiar with its development up to now, a new demo video for filling has been posted (see below). A demo for cleaning will follow after I get some more clear cartos dirty (my first attempt at the video was awful so I have to start over).

Enjoy!

 

Killjoy1

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Well, I've used the unit a few times to clean cartos, haven't yet used it for filling since I've mostly been using my cartos in tanks recently. I must say it does a great job and is far less fuss than my previous carto cleaning methods :) I was a little too vigorous with the EMDCC I cleaned, though, and collapsed the air tube, but it was easy enough to open it back up to a vapable point with a paper clip. Also cleaned a couple Boges and dual coils. The sleeves fit far enough over the cartos to cover the punched holes (a few of these were used in tanks), so I still got a good seal even on those

Such a simple concept and design that I can't really offer too many fine points for a review other than the fact that it works ;-)

Vapian, I just have one question: what are the changes made between version 2 and version 2.5? Just curious. And thanks again for the trade, a very useful item
 

Vapian

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I was a little too vigorous with the EMDCC I cleaned, though, and collapsed the air tube, but it was easy enough to open it back up to a vapable point with a paper clip.

Interesting. I'm assuming it must have collapsed when drawing on the syringe. I'm not sure there's much that can be done about that, as anything that reduces the pressure or suction reduces cleaning effectiveness. I'm guessing awareness is the only fix for that one!

The sleeves fit far enough over the cartos to cover the punched holes (a few of these were used in tanks), so I still got a good seal even on those.

Also interesting, though not necessarily intended. Since they're hand made the length of the tubing on syringe and tube adapters tends to vary a little bit. Given your experience, then, would it be safe to say that a little longer is better to make it more compatible with punched/slotted cartos?

Vapian, I just have one question: what are the changes made between version 2 and version 2.5?

Why, I'm glad you asked! I had not yet gotten around to posting about it here.

In the image below the V2 is the set on the left, the V2.5 set is on the right:

V2-V25.jpg


Change 1:

The arrows pointing down indicate the first change, which is kind of subtle visually speaking.

The V2 design used 3/8" OD / 1/4" ID tubing over the female Luer-to-Barb adapter, which is then slipped inside the 10 mm (and 9 mm) ID tubing.

While filling some larger cartomizers with the V2 model, I had one incident in which the Large 10mm inside diameter tube started to slip off of the syringe adapter after the equivalent of about 12 back-to-back filling cycles. The PG/VG of the nicquids worked its way between the 10mm ID tubing and the 3/8" OD tubing, lubricating the surfaces and causing the larger tube to slip.

To prevent that kind of thing from happening, V2.5 uses 7/16" OD / 1/4" ID tubing on the female Luer adapter. The extra 1/16" in diameter makes the adapters more difficult to build but grips the inside of the 10 mm tubing much more securely and doesn't leave a gap for PG/VG to get into.

It's not necessary to use the 7/16" OD tubing for the "normal" 9 mm parts but it can be used, so I'll probably do that after my current stock of 3/8" OD tubing runs out just to cut down on the number of types of tubing I have to keep around.

Change 2:

The arrows pointing up indicate the more obvious change. The V2 build included steps to cut a 1/2" or so chunk of the 3/8" OD tubing, slice a portion of its diameter away and fold/insert it into the opening of a 3" or so length of the same tubing. This reduced the diameter of the tubing presented to the carto in order to increase pressure to ensure that the back end/battery side is flushed out during cleaning, and also expands/flares out the longer section of tubing just a bit at that end so that it sits more securely inside the 9 or 10 mm tubing that slips onto the end of the cartomizer.

Problem is, that is an awfully fiddly step, and basically has the same problem with the 10mm tubing as the syringe adapter does when used for filling and exposed to PG/VG.

To fix that I just replaced that step with a Value Plastics 3/8" to 1/4" barbed reducer, and used that to mate up a slightly longer piece of the 9 or 10 mm tubing to the 3" or so section of tubing used to suck up nicquid (or direct flow when cleaning, whichever). This makes the part just a bit longer but construction is much easier, and it ensures the Large tube adapter doesn't separate. This does increase cost by almost $1.00 per full kit, but helps make up some for the increased difficulty added by the first change.

So, that's how V2.5 differs from V2.0. They're relatively small changes but I think they will make a big difference in reliability in the long run.
 

Killjoy1

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Interesting. I'm assuming it must have collapsed when drawing on the syringe. I'm not sure there's much that can be done about that, as anything that reduces the pressure or suction reduces cleaning effectiveness. I'm guessing awareness is the only fix for that one!
True, not much other than awareness to do about that. I've had this problem with just flushing and blowing out on the EMDCC's, too. It seems they are more prone to collapse than standard diameter cartos, probably due to the sheer amount of fluid that winds up passing through the filler and then through that center cotton wrap. Easy enough to fix, though, by carefully running a pin or straightened paper clip down through

I'm doing another batch of cleanings this morning and I've got two EMDCCs in that pile, so I'll try a slightly gentler flush and see if it helps. The one I mentioned before had 18ml of juice put through it, these two have had less, so maybe amount of use will also be a contributing factor in how easy this happens

Given your experience, then, would it be safe to say that a little longer is better to make it more compatible with punched/slotted cartos?
Perhaps. Personally, I punch my cartos as low as I can (just barely above the bottom cap of the tank), but some people punch a little bit higher, particularly in the larger tanks using XL sized cartos. Here's a pic with a ruler for reference of one of my punched Boges
2ywctps.jpg

With the kit that I have, it will just barely cover my punched hole if I push it all the way in the tube. Even if it didn't cover the hole, all it would take would be a finger over it to plug it
 
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