Caught a patient smoking

[Anjaffm]

Yes. Sheep governed by greedy, power-hungry wolves.

This is what makes me mad: the same Big Govt that creates laws to demean smokers, is the same Big Govt who is in bed with BT and BP, ripping sin taxes from voters who just happen to smoke! The same Big Govt that pretends that 20 or more percent of voters either does not exist, or should be mistreated.

On top of that, a new tech has arrived that can actually help people quit smoking... what do the "three B's"? Spread lies and misinformation, to keep people buying cigarettes and paying tobacco taxes. Then, some of that money is used again to vilify both smokers and real tobacco alternatives... rinse and repeat...

+1
You hit the nail right on the head.
And you and I, we are seeing that crap in action right now. The lies, the nonsense, the pure fabrications, the crap being spread in the press by those who have the money to pay for advertising in the same press - and the corrupt politicians whose nice deep pockets full of Big T and Big P money have made them forget that those pesky "citizens" even exist.

Well, in Europe, those forces of evil have not won yet. Not by a long shot

And yes, I call those who sell human lives for money the "forces of evil". And if you listen to any of them, you will know why.

...........
edit:
@jpargana:
Just you wait until this ..uhm... "absent-minded" lady decides to take a vacation in Portugal
And yes, I use my own picture. Including the dragon on my shoulder

 

[Anjaffm]

Well, yes. So far the courts have ruled that companies can forbid their employees from using tobacco, even off premises. The courts have said that it is in the companies self interest that their employees be healthy and it saves on insurance costs. But, most certainly it is discriminatory! BTW, in the US, if there is no union involved, companies can pretty much hire and fire any way they choose, no matter how unfair or discriminatory....very sad.

thank you for the clarification.

OMG!
That is horrible! And I would definitely call that discrimination.
Do people who climb mountains, use skis or snowboards also get no employment? Parachuting? Dieting? (that really wrecks havoc on your health, and for many years to come).
Gosh! I am really happy that I returned to Germany after living in the States for 2 years. Because of exactly such things, which were already visible then...

Nothing against the States as such.
But this kind of stuff is modern-day slavery. AND discrimination.

.........
as to sports:
In the company I work for, several young employees have had serious soccer, skiing and snowboarding accidents. As in "serious". One required hospitalization for 6 weeks, and then the guy was out of the office for approx. 3 months. Snowboarding accident.

To compare:
another colleague, a heavy smoker, retired some years ago. And died approx. 2 years after his retirement. To the great joy, I suppose, of the goverment that saved many, many years of paying him his old-age pension, for which he had paid in all his life.

Talk about saving money...

 

[jpargana]

+1
(...)
...........
edit:
@jpargana:
Just you wait until this ..uhm... "absent-minded" lady decides to take a vacation in Portugal
And yes, I use my own picture. Including the dragon on my shoulder

Oh, crap... oh, crap... 8-o

Suddenly, I have a longing to meet the United States... or maybe our Aussie friends...
(It's OK, João... you can survive this...)

 

[jpargana]

thank you for the clarification.

(...)
.........
as to sports:
In the company I work for, several young employees have had serious soccer, skiing and snowboarding accidents. As in "serious". One required hospitalization for 6 weeks, and then the guy was out of the office for approx. 3 months. Snowboarding accident.

To compare:
another colleague, a heavy smoker, retired some years ago. And died approx. 2 years after his retirement. To the great joy, I suppose, of the goverment that saved many, many years of paying him his old-age pension, for which he had paid in all his life.

Talk about saving money...

The irony is, all the tax your smoker colleague paid his entire life, all the money saved in retirement pension by his early departure, is being probably used to pay for other kinds of treatments (for example, the sports accidents you just mentioned).
And yet, smokers are still vilified by non-smokers, because 'they' will have to pay for smoking-related treatments...!

 

[navigator2011]

LOL, I don't know what hospital allows smoking, or vaping anywhere on their property. Here in Charlotte all hospitals are huge multi-block affairs, so employees/visitors would have to walk a long distance. Many hospital systems are no longer allowing employees to smoke, even on their own time and are backing up their edit with random nic tests, which of course also means vaping is not allowed.

Which I think completely crosses the line of acceptability. We all realize that smoking indoors is unimaginable now days, the smoke seems to linger on forever and infringes upon the rights of non-smokers. But to inconvenience and even harass people for being polite enough to pick a small peripheral corner of the property to grab a smoke (or vape) outdoors is infuriating at best. When my wife had our baby, I was forced to walk all the way out to the boulevard to have a smoke . . . because one cigarette outdoors in gale-force winds at 3:00AM might offend some of the vehicles in the car park. I just don’t understand how or why so many people feel completely acceptable being utter a-holes. I apologize for being extreme, I’m just sick and tired of all the intolerance around me, just to face even more negativity for choosing a safe, non-stinky alternative. I swear if someone hard-times me for vaping outdoors in a car-park, the cops will probably have to be called, after the ambulance.

 

[navigator2011]

The irony is, all the tax your smoker colleague paid his entire life, all the money saved in retirement pension by his early departure, is being probably used to pay for other kinds of treatments (for example, the sports accidents you just mentioned).
And yet, smokers are still vilified by non-smokers, because 'they' will have to pay for smoking-related treatments...!

It's the vilifying by non-smokers that irritates me the most. Obviously smoking is awful for the health of the smoker and anyone nearby indoors, and certainly society as whole has moved beyond cigarette smoking, and so now smoking is no longer look at as being 'cool.' Fine, I get that, and I do my very best to keep my smoking from being offensive to non-smokers. Many times, I have been perfectly happy to walk all the way off a property to smoke, when I had to. But when these steps still aren't good enough, that's when I have a problem. For nearly 30 years I have lived with the negative stigma of being a smoker, the hostility of non-smokers around me, and I have tried numerous times to get free of the addiction to no avail. Now, here comes a new technology that actually offers me and many others some hope to be at least a bit more healthy, quite a bit less offfensive, and potentially drop my nicotine dependence all the way, and before I even complete my attempt to switch over to vaping entirely, society begins demonizing vapers and threatening bans (while keeping stinkies widely available). Words cannot truly express how frustrating this is.

 

[patkin]

Excuse my asking, I am from Europe:

Is that legal in the States, and if yes, on what grounds? After all, tobacco is a legal substance.
Sounds very much like discrimination to me. Like denying employment to.. say.. women with blonde hair.

I don't know if the USA is an exception around the world but it has a long history of employment discrimination. That's how unions came to be as well as the Labor Department and the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.) This is one reason socially accepted prejudice is so serious. It affects economic livelihood.

If Obamacare stands and more and more people are kicked off company insurance rolls there will be more grounds for lawsuits as companies will no longer be able to use health costs to control employees off the job.

 

[Anjaffm]

@navigator2011:
I understand you entirely. Oh yes!

@patkin:
Not sure about other countries, but in Germany, that would be unfair discrimination.
In Germany, there are several questions about prospective employees' private lives that prospective employers are not permitted to ask. Because - frankly - there are things that do not concern employers, as they have nothing to do with the work that the employee would do.
And.. uhm.. taking bodily fluids.. for any normal job.. is unthinkable.

there will be more grounds for lawsuits as companies will no longer be able to use health costs to control employees off the job.

I most certainly hope so.
As a German citizen living and working in Germany, I am horrified at the idea of employers meddling into the private lives of citizens.

@jpargana:
Yes, my former smoker colleague (who died shortly after his retirement) most certainly paid for the treatment of the sports injuries of those "healthy" sporty people.

And yes, I think I'll take my next vacation in Portugal

 

[navigator2011]

@navigator2011:
I understand you entirely. Oh yes!

@patkin:
Not sure about other countries, but in Germany, that would be unfair discrimination.
In Germany, there are several questions about prospective employees' private lives that prospective employers are not permitted to ask. Because - frankly - there are things that do not concern employers, as they have nothing to do with the work that the employee would do.
And.. uhm.. taking bodily fluids.. for any normal job.. is unthinkable.



I most certainly hope so.
As a German citizen living and working in Germany, I am horrified at the idea of employers meddling into the private lives of citizens.

@jpargana:
Yes, my former smoker colleague (who died shortly after his retirement) most certainly paid for the treatment of the sports injuries of those "healthy" sporty people.

And yes, I think I'll take my next vacation in Portugal

As a U.S. citizen, the thought of employers dictating employees personal lives and then taking body fluids (an admission that they don't trust the employee) to check on them horrifies me on several levels. It reminds me of that movie, Gatica, where the employers were using DNA discrimination against everyone. I simply will not work for an employer that crosses these lines. I cannot understand why so many Americans are so willing to give up their own human dignity. Because of lawsuits and courts? No, I say, we still don't have to do it. It's getting harder to believe this nation started with a revolution.

 

[EddardinWinter]

I had a spinal operation earlier this year, was allowed to vape openly in my bed.

They were concerned about reprisals if they said no when they saw the Semovar. Of course, the existence of The Semovarians is only an Urban Legend....as far as most people know.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Cassandra still would have moticed it, maybe not so shockingly, I walk past a cigar shop daily (in the morning, after work) this place closes around midnight or 1am, but I can still smell the cigars at 7:30 am, just walking by it...stuff lingers long and long after the fact

It really depends on the volume of negative air. If a small bathroom (6x6x8) has 100 CFM being removed from it, the smell would be gone very quickly due to the number of air changes per hour. The negative pressure could prevent migration. It is very unfortunate that the science of ventilation is so poorly understood by lawmakers, because I could design a smoking lounge that would be completely comfortable to non-smokers sitting six feet away from smokers quite easily. I have proven this with blindfolded tests for a client who hated second hand smoke. The air quality of this room suffered no ill effects from a half-dozen smokers puffing away over an hours time.

With the modern controls, equipment, and hardware technology available that can be utilized with HVAC energy recovery options, ventilating a space with 100% outside air is just not that expensive. That is all that is required for a safe smoking space. It is nothing short of tragic that it is illegal for these options to be explored in many states.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Excuse my asking, I am from Europe:

Is that legal in the States, and if yes, on what grounds? After all, tobacco is a legal substance.
Sounds very much like discrimination to me. Like denying employment to.. say.. women with blonde hair.

I wouldn't hire a blonde...

Well, not for much longer than say, an hour or two.


Okay, that was a bad, tasteless joke. I would wager many of the readers laughed, however.

 

[navigator2011]

It really depends on the volume of negative air. If a small bathroom (6x6x8) has 100 CFM being removed from it, the smell would be gone very quickly due to the number of air changes per hour. The negative pressure could prevent migration. It is very unfortunate that the science of ventilation is so poorly understood by lawmakers, because I could design a smoking lounge that would be completely comfortable to non-smokers sitting six feet away from smokers quite easily. I have proven this with blindfolded tests for a client who hated second hand smoke. The air quality of this room suffered no ill effects from a half-dozen smokers puffing away over an hours time.

With the modern controls, equipment, and hardware technology available that can be utilized with HVAC energy recovery options, ventilating a space with 100% outside air is just not that expensive. That is all that is required for a safe smoking space. It is nothing short of tragic that it is illegal for these options to be explored in many states.

The fact that these hospitals won't let people smoke outdoors away from non-smokers proves that this is not about making anyone comfortable, except maybe satisfying their own egocentric need to declare a nicotine-free world.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Yes. Sheep governed by greedy, power-hungry wolves.

This is what makes me mad: the same Big Govt that creates laws to demean smokers, is the same Big Govt who is in bed with BT and BP, ripping sin taxes from voters who just happen to smoke! The same Big Govt that pretends that 20 or more percent of voters either does not exist, or should be mistreated.

On top of that, a new tech has arrived that can actually help people quit smoking... what do the "three B's"? Spread lies and misinformation, to keep people buying cigarettes and paying tobacco taxes. Then, some of that money is used again to vilify both smokers and real tobacco alternatives... rinse and repeat...

Wolves aren't so scary.



When you look at them from the right perspective. Too bad there are so few Lion citizens, eh?

 

[EddardinWinter]

The fact that these hospitals won't let people smoke outdoors away from non-smokers proves that this is not about making anyone comfortable, except maybe satisfying their own egocentric need to declare a nicotine-free world.

True enough. It is not about clean air or air quality as much as politics.

 

[patkin]

As a U.S. citizen, the thought of employers dictating employees personal lives and then taking body fluids (an admission that they don't trust the employee) to check on them horrifies me on several levels. It reminds me of that movie, Gatica, where the employers were using DNA discrimination against everyone. I simply will not work for an employer that crosses these lines. I cannot understand why so many Americans are so willing to give up their own human dignity. Because of lawsuits and courts? No, I say, we still don't have to do it. It's getting harder to believe this nation started with a revolution.

Its required by insurance companies the company uses due to safety issue and not just private insurance companies but worker's compensation insurance companies have to pay. An example of the safety issue: working in any construction area whether you actually operate or work on heavy equipment... but that's only one small example. If you have a CDL (commercial drivers license) drug testing is also required. Now, many companies are going to nicotine blood testing using insurance as the reason whether it actually is the reason or not. As usual, what started as a good thing protecting workers as well as others like drivers on the same road with a trucker driving a big rig or any other commercial vehicle, is being misused and abused for other agendas. If you think about it, more and more companies as well as Obamacare are penalizing for nicotine use on insurance premiums. How do they know if you're using it? Blood/urine testing. And it doesn't matter when you got that nicotine in your blood... on or off the job. So with these new insurance requirements pretty much everyone is being controlled off the job.

@Anjaffm.... Portugal might be a good choice for a while... better hurry though as Socialism/Nanny State/Big Brotherism is spreading across the globe fast.

 

[DC2]

I wouldn't hire a blonde...

Well, not for much longer than say, an hour or two.


Okay, that was a bad, tasteless joke. I would wager many of the readers laughed, however.

I had to resort to simply "liking" your post, as I can not publicly state that it made me laugh.

But since I love brunettes most, followed by redheads....
Yeah, me too also neither.


But really, I just care about personality, moral integrity, intelligence, and long legs.


EDIT: This is one of those times where I forgot to act properly for human consumption.
EDIT: Please ignore this post.

 

[jnnfrlsw]

just a thought ... bring him an NJOY bold tomorrow ... it's almost Christmas

You could always do this on the sly-kinda like a secret santa-leave the Njoy laying on his table/bedside. Just wear gloves so the smoking police can't dust it for your prints

 

[EddardinWinter]

I had to resort to simply "liking" your post, as I can not publicly state that it made me laugh.

But since I love brunettes most, followed by redheads....
Yeah, me too also neither.


But really, I just care about personality, moral integrity, intelligence, and long legs.


EDIT: This is one of those times where I forgot to act properly for human consumption.
EDIT: Please ignore this post.

Yes, I kind of like them all, too. I was only kidding.

I have a particular weakness (that has been well documented) for tall athletic blondes. I understand some other guys are into that, too.

 

[DC2]

Don't worry, I think I just insulted a wide array of people...

--Boring dullards
--Kind-hearted criminals
--Stupid people
--Little people