Cellucotton- Rayon/Health/Performance

[Hobbs]

One may be better suited to a particular vape style than another. I vape single coil above ohm builds (1.7-1.9ohms) and low wattage (8.3-8.5W). Both Cotton and Rayon work, but I prefer cotton. Cotton is easier to work with and is more coil wick density forgiving than I find Rayon to be, which prefers a tighter wick and is sometimes a problem with the smaller wire sizes I use and coil build integrity over the lifespan of the coil and wick changes. At the end of the day, since both work for me, I chose the simplest and easiest to work with ... cotton. Rayon may wick juice faster I'm told, but my vape style never requires the fastest juice wicking possible. Plus, while the difference may be subtle, I prefer the taste of cotton over rayon. I vape non-flavored juice, so how each may or may not best handle flavored juices is a non-issue for me and I can't comment on that.

 

[Alter]

I've been vaping rayon box #44060 for almost 3 years now and if its wicked properly its the best vape around. I started with good ol silica in my protanks then gave cotton a go but rewicking every couple days became monotonous and took the shine away from the vape experience, especially with 2 of us vaping. Hemp fiber was better than cotton even though it had to be cleaned of the IMO stalk shards and bunnies it outlasted the cotton by several days before having to rewick. Its the properties of rayon being opposite to cotton that make it so much more robust and lasting longer than the coil does in a build, at least in my builds the coil cocoons long before the rayon poops out. I don't build super nasty low ohm coils so I can't say how rayon acts being stressed to its limits but tootle puffing builds its great. My fav build is a 30K/34SS single core clapton that is 1.4ohm, lots of cloud being a clapton build and easy on batts being 1.4ohm.
I really don't care if there could be health issues but my assumption would be inhaling a massive dryhit but I haven't had one yet enough to worry about.
Super tight in the coil and tail thinning are the tricks to making rayon work best. What the difference is cotton swells from juice flowing inside the fiber thus easy to plug fiber after fiber until no more juice flow then drier hits begin that could take a couple days. Rayon flows outside the fiber so it settles...not shrinks so super tight and having too much bulk in the tails will choke rayon so thinning is mandatory. With the juice flowing outside the fiber there is no plugging up of fibers so the build lasts much longer along with another thing is rayon fibers have to be straight and pretty for the shortest route to the coil.
Rayon has done me good in its durability compared to cotton, enough that I won't use any other wicking in my builds, getting a couple weeks or more and 100+mls of DIY juice means that I don't have to sit down and rebuild as often as you would with cotton.

 

[Thayamax]

I've been using rayon since it first became a thing on ECF back in May 2014. There is a learning curve to wicking it correctly, but once you get the hang of it there is no comparison to cotton. Rayon will allow you to vape on the same coil for weeks. You will usually have to rewick only when you have to clean the coil because the rayon will outlast your coil. I vape a sweet DIY juice with 23% flavoring and 70% VG, and I've been vaping on my current wick for over 2 weeks. The flavor is still as good as it was when I first wicked it. I can't imagine ever using anything but rayon in my tanks.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

I have and still use both. I prefer the rayon, it doesn't have any taste, it has a higher burn temp, and it has better juice flow.

I hear people say that rayon has a higher burn temp, but can't find a definitive answer on it. In fact, though- what I do find suggests that it has a significantly lower burn temp. If you look at your iron, on a scale of 1-7, 7 being hottest- you iron cotton at a 7. Rayon is a 3. And you're supposed to iron rayon inside out to prevent damaging the finish. Rayon is also less stable when wet.

If someone has data that refutes this, I'd love to see it, as I've been unable to find it. Someone probably posted good info in the rayon thread, but I'm too lazy to read thru 349 pages. But the truth is, neither should burn if you have sufficient juice. And I'm sure it wicks more efficiently, because of the linear orientation of the fibers. Since it pulls the juice quicker, it should be better at quickly replacing the juice vaporized at the coil. I'm considering trying it myself, because so many rave about it. But if I get some, I'm going to put a piece of each in the oven, and crank it up to 4-500 degrees, and run my own test.

 

[Beamslider]

I hear people say that rayon has a higher burn temp, but can't find a definitive answer on it. In fact, though- what I do find suggests that it has a significantly lower burn temp. If you look at your iron, on a scale of 1-7, 7 being hottest- you iron cotton at a 7. Rayon is a 3. And you're supposed to iron rayon inside out to prevent damaging the finish. Rayon is also less stable when wet.

If someone has data that refutes this, I'd love to see it, as I've been unable to find it. Someone probably posted good info in the rayon thread, but I'm too lazy to read thru 349 pages. But the truth is, neither should burn if you have sufficient juice. And I'm sure it wicks more efficiently, because of the linear orientation of the fibers. Since it pulls the juice quicker, it should be better at quickly replacing the juice vaporized at the coil. I'm considering trying it myself, because so many rave about it. But if I get some, I'm going to put a piece of each in the oven, and crank it up to 4-500 degrees, and run my own test.

Relative summary of the flammability properties of fibers:

Fiber Heat of Combustion
Ignition Temperature (°C)
Cotton 255°C
Rayon 420°C
Nylon 575°C
Polyester 560°C
Wool 600°C

Wool Burns

 

[AnthonyMcDevitt91]

"Burning" isn't necessarily the same as combustion, or ignition point though. Like rayon for example tends to melt well before it start to burn

 

[Beamslider]

Rayon does not MELT.....

Ignition point is temperature to start burning. It stands to reason that it would scorch at a higher temp too

 

[Brewdawg1181]

Relative summary of the flammability properties of fibers:

Fiber Heat of Combustion
Ignition Temperature (°C)
Cotton 255°C
Rayon 420°C
Nylon 575°C
Polyester 560°C
Wool 600°C

Wool Burns

Well, there you go- thanks Beamslider!
But Anthony does have a point. Even if it doesn't melt, something changes in rayon fabrics at lower temps than cotton. Doesn't mean I'm not gonna eventually try rayon, though.

 

[AnthonyMcDevitt91]

Ok, perhaps melt isn't the right term. It's hard to describe exactly, but rayon goes bad well before it catches fire.

However, I still highly suggest using rayon. I love the stuff.

 

[Beamslider]

With both Rayon and Cotton, I never notice burn on them when rewicking. The cotton does seem to change color more though but it appears to just be picking up the color from the ejuice. Rayon seems to stay white and not absorb the color.

I think if you are vaping without adequate juice flow and high enough to burn either that is a bigger problem or issue than which one you choose to use.

 

[stols001]

I much prefer rayon in most ways. It's easier to handle, it's easier to thin, there is no cotton taste (though it does shrink and break in over a couple days, so you may feel you are over-wicking initially, but really not over the long term) and it lasts so much better for me than cotton does. It's far superior (IMO) but if you want to try this stuff, do check out the rayon thread for help, they got me up and running in 2 posts, and now I really know how to handle it and what to expect. I find that it gives better flavor, but the main thing for me is that it is so much easier to wick correctly.

Good luck,

Anna

 

[Just Me]

Does anyone have any knowledge about whether the "Graham Cellucotton %100 Rayon Fiber" is healthy for vaping or not?

What are your opinions and comparison of performance with other types of cotton if you have tried?
View attachment 702229

I used some cotton a couple of years ago and didn't really care for it. It's kind of "soggy" to me and burns easily.

I use the exact same product you posted (same box color, same description, same Graham name on the box {brand}?, same Sanex name on the box {manufacturer}?, except mine is a different product number (44043), because I think my box is larger (3 lbs., no mention of footage). It was about $19, and using 4 about inches a year, will last me more than my remaining lifetime. Plus, I like the way it wicks and doesn't burn. It tastes cleaner to me than cotton. But that's just me.

 

[halfempty]

If you look at your iron, on a scale of 1-7, 7 being hottest- you iron cotton at a 7. Rayon is a 3.

Rayon does not MELT.....

Even if it doesn't melt, something changes in rayon fabrics at lower temps than cotton.

Please keep in mind that rayon FABRICS are not 100% pure rayon. Most "rayon" fabrics I've ever seen are either a rayon/polyester or a rayon/nylon blend. These fabrics do melt before they ignite because of their synthetic content. 100% rayon is purified cellulose, a plant material. Like wood and cotton it does not melt, it burns.

Using "rayon" fabric as a vaping wick would be ill advised, and probably poisonous. 100% rayon is at least as safe as cotton for wicking material. Just my 2¢.

 

[Wraith504]

Since its soaking wet in juice you dont need to have much concern about it being poisonous anyway tbh. Silica is certainly not the healthiest fumes to inhale but that was the go to wick back in the day.

 

[Wraith504]

I am over 50 to 60 mils juice on the same rayon wick with no loss in flavor or wicking ability.

 

[Beamslider]

I am over 50 to 60 mils juice on the same rayon wick with no loss in flavor or wicking ability.

I get about 120 ml thru the rayon wicks and generally the wick is still good when changed out, just the coil all gunked though

 

[halfempty]

Since its soaking wet in juice you dont need to have much concern about it being poisonous anyway tbh. Silica is certainly not the healthiest fumes to inhale but that was the go to wick back in the day.

While I basically agree, I shudder to think what a polyester dry hit would be like.

 

[Beamslider]

While I basically agree, I shudder to think what a polyester dry hit would be like.

Emergency room visit....I think

 

[Khanruler]

I used some cotton a couple of years ago and didn't really care for it. It's kind of "soggy" to me and burns easily.

I use the exact same product you posted (same box color, same description, same Graham name on the box {brand}?, same Sanex name on the box {manufacturer}?, except mine is a different product number (44043), because I think my box is larger (3 lbs., no mention of footage). It was about $19, and using 4 about inches a year, will last me more than my remaining lifetime. Plus, I like the way it wicks and doesn't burn. It tastes cleaner to me than cotton. But that's just me.

Ohh nice, I guess I'll give it a chance. Thx for all given informations

 

[Brewdawg1181]

Please keep in mind that rayon FABRICS are not 100% pure rayon.
Using "rayon" fabric as a vaping wick would be ill advised, and probably poisonous. 100% rayon is at least as safe as cotton for wicking material. Just my 2¢.

I'm sorry, but this is not correct. Clothes are labelled according to their content. Many, many clothing and textile products are manufactured with 100% rayon. If a product contains polyester or other synthetic fabrics, it will be labelled accordingly. Rayon itself is "nearly" 100% natural cellulose.

I've been doing a lot of research, and Beamslider is correct - rayon does have a higher combustion point than cotton. But due to it's properties, it has no "memory," and wrinkles extremely easily. This is why it does not suffer ironing well. It does not melt, but the high heat can cause a "sheen" in the fibers that was not intended in processing.

It is highly absorbent - more so than cotton. This, and its linear structure make it a superior wicking material, if only in efficiency of moving the liquid. It has poor stability when wet - this is why it will shrink, rather than expand like cotton in ejuice. This is also why it must be dry cleaned. Rayon does not insulate like cotton. Just theorizing here, but this may be one of the reasons people say it lasts longer. If it does not trap the heat of the coil, but transfers it, it could help keep the fiber at the coil from being damaged. Another quality - the fiber itself is very smooth - this also should help the wick last longer. It should be able to transfer the liquid and all of its particulate matter and impurities to the coil to be burned, rather than trapping them and "gunking" your coil. This may not be a good thing if you want any of that removed or "filtered" by your wick.

However - if you are concerned about residual toxic chemicals, it may not be for you. There are many noxious and dangerous chemicals used in the manufacture of rayon. And the bleaching process can initiate release of dioxin, a carcinogen. Of course, those 2 sentences could be true for many other products we all use every day. And the final product is purportedly washed to remove all of the processing chemicals. For anyone intent on avoiding unknowns and risk at almost any cost, organic unbleached cotton (from a known producer) is probably a better choice.

For me - hey, I was igniting cellulose-containing leaf material, with many unknown chemical additives that produced about 4,000 compounds, hundreds of which are known carcinogens, a couple of dozen times a day for over 40 years. So I think I'm gonna go to the local Sally's Beauty Supply and get some and give it a try.