Cellucotton (Rayon) VS. Japanese Cotton (Koh-Gen-Doh)

[jefsview]

The only thing I get from my rayon wicks is fantastic flavor and unbeatable wicking.

While I prefer KGD over organic cotton balls in both flavor and use, rayon beats KGD, for me, in every category. Easy to wick, easy to use and the flavor is just cleaner and lasts longer than even KGD.

 

[Cellodick]

Rayon is pure cellulose made by man and the final extrusion is washed clean. Cotton is cellulose made by the plant and may contain whatever made it up the plant from the roots.

Rayon is cellulose (wood pulp, a natural product, not man made) that is melted down with chemicals and extruded into a fiber. Not sure why this would be any safer than organic cotton.

 

[Cellodick]

Probably because your using it like cotton. Your getting dry hits because your wick is too loose and not getting good contact on the coil.. The horrible taste is your juice dry burning on the coil not the rayon.

You should be using close to 2 times the thickness and density of cotton. It will be tight tighter than you can imagine, until it all the sudden it works... If you happen to go too tight you will taste the nutty/woody taste of rayon.. It also will not burn so don't worry about that. It will still vape well.

Rayon can/will burn, and put out toxic smoke while doing it.
That "nutty/woody taste" is wood.

 

[JeremyR]

It will not burn when damp. I've been using it since 2013 and it has never burned in use.. The only thing that burns is juice when you let it go dry the coil will overheat and burn the juice. Rayon will keep itself wet enough not to burn

The smoke is the same as burning cigarette paper. We are not using clothing fabric rayon which has many treatments of chemicals because rayon doesn't take dye well.

Carbon monoxide is the byproduct of burning anything organic. What toxic smoke are you talking about? What source did you get this information?

Did two rounds of flame on when wick fired it till it dried and the juice lit up. Did this twice for 5 seconds the wick didn't burn but the burned juice tainted it. The smoke is the juice burning off the coil.



The final pic is after two burns. Sorry the focus is crap just switched from i5 to moto and the camera is not great.

 

[JeremyR]

Rayon is cellulose (wood pulp, a natural product, not man made) that is melted down with chemicals and extruded into a fiber. Not sure why this would be any safer than organic cotton.

The final product is purified cellulose. More pure than cotton . it's pure cellulose down to the molecular level. It is every bit as safe as cotton and actually safer. No pesticies or risidual components will be bound with the cellulose molecules.

 

[Cellodick]

It will not burn when damp. I've been using it since 2013 and it has never burned in use.. The only thing that burns is juice when you let it go dry the coil will overheat and burn the juice. Rayon will keep itself wet enough not to burn

The smoke is the same as burning cigarette paper. We are not using clothing fabric rayon which has many treatments of chemicals because rayon doesn't take dye well.

Carbon monoxide is the byproduct of burning anything organic. What toxic smoke are you talking about? What source did you get this information?

What does burn when it's damp? Unless it's damp with something flammable?
Cigarette paper smoke is toxic.
Carbon monoxide is toxic.
Rayon will only "keep itself wet enough not to burn" when it has something that is moist moistening it. It won't keep itself wet.
Rayon CAN burn.
It is made with chemical processes.

 

[PaulBHC]

I used to use a systemic pesticide with my roses.

 

[Cellodick]

The final product is purified cellulose. More pure than cotton . it's pure cellulose down to the molecular level. It is every bit as safe as cotton and actually safer. No pesticies or risidual components will be bound with the cellulose molecules.

It is not pure down to the molecular level.
Ps. I also use rayon for wicking. But I understand its properties and downsides also. And realize it is made by bleaching cellulose, and melting it with chemicals. Put a torch to it, see how it burns.

 

[JeremyR]

When its completely dry it will burn, obviously. I did a burn test in the very beginning, but its a fact that when there is enough density even dry rayon can be fire resistant..

If you have it in a device and the wick has been wet with juice, you will dry burn the coil before the wick gets burnt. It hard to burn it in normal use compared to cotton. So yes it will hold juice under those conditions.

The fact that it isn't burning and the amount in the coil is about as much as a cigarette paper your fear about toxic smoke is a little rediculous to be honest. What do you think come off burning cotton. Fresh air...... Put a torch to kogendo.

What is the cellulose bound with then, what source of information do you have?

It is routinely certified free from ANY potential harmful chemicals by oekotex the world wide leader in textile testing.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Ever since I got my KGD, my Rayon has not seen the light of day. I loved my Rayon but when I wicked up KGD, that was that.

 

[Nick N]

I'll try the cotton pads as soon as I use up this box of rayon - I only have about 490 feet left. On second thought, I'll bury the pads in a time capsule so my great grand kids can try it in 2060 when my original box of rayon runs out. [emoji19]

 

[Dissonance]

For me, it really depends on the build. If it's a build that requires the wick to make a sharp turn 90º or more (Like a split tail to take care of a long leg), I use cotton. If not, I use rayon. For some reason Rayon doesn't play well with bends for me

 

[Sunburst]

For me, it really depends on the build. If it's a build that requires the wick to make a sharp turn 90º or more (Like a split tail to take care of a long leg), I use cotton. If not, I use rayon. For some reason Rayon doesn't play well with bends for me

A bit of this also, I find rebuilding coil heads into a BVC-style really, really hard to pull off without KGD.

 

[CrazyCory564]

After using both in my RTA, my feelings are mixed,

When it comes to flavor and vapor density, I am leaning towards the KGD. It gives me great flavor even off the first and second drag, as opposed to having to break in. I take it easy anyway at first to break it in anyway, but that's more so for making sure it's wicking well; not for flavor.

Cotton seems to absorb more liquid, whilst the Rayon seems to be more of a cappilary transporter. Because the cotton absorbs so much juice, there is more juice within the area of the coil, giving me what seems to be more flavor/more dense flavor.

However, Cotton also expands when it absorbs juice. When I'm using a MAX VG juice, I start having some problems with my KGD because it expands and it's a little tougher for air to escape. I keep the juice channels open, but I still have some problems with it wicking/releasing air, but I'm thinking that's more user error as opposed to anything else. I'm going to keep working on the KGD with MAX VG to try to get a good balance of cotton amount as to have it wick properly and keep up with chain-vaping.

Because of that, I seem to be having better luck with Rayon using MAX VG. I use more of it to fill the coil, and then juice it up to make it easy to work with. I cut the tails to the end of the deck, and press it down the sidewall of to the juice chamber so it sticks to the wall and just touches the bottom. It doesn't seem as absorbent as KGD (still wicks well, just differently) but liquid travels through it pretty quickly. Since it doesn't expand when wet, air has a lot easier of a time escaping through it and the juice.

Because I have to use more to fill the coil, the first few pulls I take tend to have a slightly off flavor; It's not like the Rayon is burning, but maybe it's just a little too tightly pressed against the coil. However, after a couple pulls off of it, this goes away (pretty quickly) and I am left with the flavor I enjoy, It is not as pronounced or potent as it is with KGD, but again I think that comes down to how it absorbs the liquid, and it is still satisfying,

Overall I like the KGD a whole lot more, but I also find it a little trickier to work with, Since the liquid doesn't cause Rayon to expand, I don't even have to thin out the tails after I trim them to size; I just press it down the sidewall after it's a little juiced up, and a thin layer sits touching the bottom perfectly,

I hope to become more proficient at wicking with KGD using MAX VG liquids, because the flavor I get is unmatched by anything else I've tried.

 

[Sunburst]

It sounds like you might have a hair too much density in your rayon wick. There is a sweet spot and once you find it, you have an a-ha moment.

 

[JeremyR]

For me, it really depends on the build. If it's a build that requires the wick to make a sharp turn 90º or more (Like a split tail to take care of a long leg), I use cotton. If not, I use rayon. For some reason Rayon doesn't play well with bends for me

You have to thin the tails with a relief cut at the bend. I cut 70-80% off at the bend and in a dripper with a paper thin tail on the deck it wicks like a champ. Will run the well conpltely dry , not a drop left. Even the tails are back to dry. Its against all conventional wick methods you know and its hard for people to think how it can work, but rayon is completely different.

 

[CrazyCory564]

I actually had that "wow holy ...." moment with KGD. Turns out I should split the pads in half and loosely roll a piece up, instead of just pulling a small rectangular piece through.

Lol. Pretty much the cause of any problems I had fixed by rolling it instead of just pulling a fat piece rectangle through.

Will try to work with Rayon more though. It just doesn't feel as comfortable to work with. I can use more of it, but volume of material seems to be my downfall, so that might not be a good thing

 

[Sunburst]

You have to thin the tails with a relief cut at the bend. I cut 70-80% off at the bend and in a dripper with a paper thin tail on the deck it wicks like a champ. Will run the well conpltely dry , not a drop left. Even the tails are back to dry. Its against all conventional wick methods you know and its hard for people to think how it can work, but rayon is completely different.

This x 1000. It's really counter-intuitive, but fat wick in the coil with the thinnest tails you can get away with works wonders. In my aqua clone builds, given enough boredom, you could count the strands in the juice channels. Huge fluffy shoulders and a coil jam-packed full of wick. No gurgling, no flooding and I've tried to get a dry hit but the vape gets too hot for me. With Japanese cotton, I could get no gurgling, no flooding but it would dry hit if chain vaping at high-ish power settings. Still a comfortable vape, but higher than I normally run. We'll call it, um, exhibition mode.

I think Jeremy and I thin our tails differently but get very similar results. I trim to the length I need and make an angled cut from the end-corner of the wick up to where I want the shoulder to stop. Then I dip a screwdriver in juice and sweep the shoulders up so I can trim the tails further. Obviously, this is slightly different on each atty based on terminal locations and deck layout.

Next time I re-wick a dripper, I'm absolutely going to try the relief cut thing. That sounds like it would alleviate a few problems I have when wicking my Fauxbo v2.

 

[super_X_drifter]

I actually had that "wow holy ...." moment with KGD. Turns out I should split the pads in half and loosely roll a piece up, instead of just pulling a small rectangular piece through.

Lol. Pretty much the cause of any problems I had fixed by rolling it instead of just pulling a fat piece rectangle through.

Will try to work with Rayon more though. It just doesn't feel as comfortable to work with. I can use more of it, but volume of material seems to be my downfall, so that might not be a good thing

Cory, here's a KGD method to increase the wow bro

http://youtu.be/lfOEoLumeR0

 

[CrazyCory564]

Cory, here's a KGD method to increase the wow bro

http://youtu.be/lfOEoLumeR0

no offense, but the only tip I got was removethat outside compressed layer, which I already do. Still better to roll it in to a round shape as opposed to leaving the rectangle, whether you use that layer or not.

also, if you take that compressed layer, and spread it out so the fibers seperate, you have another piece of (albeit thinner) wick. awesome for when you want to use a real tiny coil and not too much cotton