Chinese clones Rant / Discussion

[havoc1967]

When it comes to mechs I am a clone fan. I am going to reward myself with a Provari in the very near future. Why - because of its stellar reputation, first rate customer service, it is made here and most important - I want one. But I know myself very well. I will probably only use it at home because would fear losing it or having it stolen were I to take it out. What can I say, I'm very OCD. The SVD on the other hand I take everywhere. I have quite a few mech clones and love them. My stainless hcigar Nemesis is fantastic and beautiful and is what I use at home because it never leaves the house (the FT brass Nemesis goes everywhere with me). So if I baby my hcigar Nemesis can you even imagine what I would do with a genuine Nemesis??? Besides, those high end mechanical mods? I think they are ridiculously overpriced.

 

[Uncle Willie]

When Americans are willing to work for slave wages, when environmental requirements are practically non-existent, when OSHA is shut down, when taxes are lowered, etc .. then, we'll see a new revival ..

 

[Jman8]

I agree with OP in principle, but pretty sure I'd buy a clone and also sure I'd be cognizant about the hypocrisy involved, by me.

I long for the day where robots can take care of service jobs and 3D printers can replicate anything under the sun (or Star Trek's replicators would work just as well). Put all these Ferengi human companies out of the business of making money strictly for profit.

I think I still like that system, but it continues to show up as incredibly open to corruption or at the very least, mass manipulation. Either make the market (and flow of money transactions) as transparent as humanly possible, or I just assume let my second paragraph be the point that we must move to for us to realize making a profit and hiding how it was done was eventually going to have a point where that was no longer so easy, nor (perhaps) even possible.

When we can replicate artists' works and turn around and blame corporations for being greedy to prevent us from getting that replication, then I got lost in what this discussion is about. Throw the artists under the bus and I just assume see all the other designers thrown under the same bus.

 

[Nikkita6]

Well in the case of mechanical PV's I have to dissagree with your analigy. Every bottom button mechanical out there is a rippff of a mod designed by "Trog" in 2008.

Want a good laugh?? (March 2009)

I really enjoyed this stroll down memory lane, and as far as the "future of ecigs" Nick really knew what he was talking about, and so it has come to pass. He also reminded me of myself in that I had a manual firing Ego, well before I had an automatic cig a like, and once I tried one, I totally preferred the auto cig a like for the same reason he did at that time ... what is more interesting is that both of our opinions, and preferences (along with most other vapers) has since evolved and changed.

Every now and again I still enjoy my cig a likes, and all their light weight ease, and glory.

 

[tj99959]

regarding clones i would say selling devices with logo's and brand names is totally illegal and
unethical.
however if one was to make a device called(insert any name here)and it has all
the features of(insert brand name here) at a lower price then its up to the buyer to
decide.
in the watch industry there are many watch makers that make what would be called homages.
looks similar to but is not a rolex,omega,tag,brieghtling etc.. .
and they are not branded as such.
just look at how many cars in a similar category look so much alike.

regards
mike

Believe it or not, there really is a legal system. If people really want to protect their "Intellectual property rights", then they should use the legal system, and copyright their "Intellectual property ". Hell, even my coffee cup is copyrighted!

 

[roadie]

Then my question is... why buy it? There are plenty at least semi-original mods from china (not counterfeits). If there was a cheap exact replica of a Rolls Royce, why would someone buy it? Just for the illusion of driving one? What would it do that an original Toyota couldn't?

This is the great contradiction I can't understand. You say a mod is a ripoff and bash the makers for charging insane prices... then you buy an item that they essentially created.

No contradiction whatsoever. When did I bash the makers? I said IMO, I wouldn't pay for a full-priced original, as I feel they are way overpriced. That's MY opinion. If I buy a clone, it's because I like the way it looks, the good reviews it has received, or because of the price. If it looks like the original, I don't care. If it looks unique, I don't care.

 

[ericm12121977]

I think US products are competitive. Quality is more important to me than price. Most people are just cheap or aren't willing to save for something...

Sorry to say, as I am sure you are aware, most American made products are made with the cheapest possible labor, in a factory/warehouse with employees who are making minimum wage, with no training besides on the job training with a job "training manager" which is some poor sap who managed to make it past 3 months on the job. Trust me in my younger years I spent many weeks wasting away on an assembly line building "American Made" products with parts that came from China, Korea, Mexico and other foreign countries. As much as we love to say we will buy "American", the reality is the guts are made in other countries and only assembled here.

If you want to blame anyone, lets start with the fact that we are so "controlled" that we can't wipe our own butts without getting some form of controll imposed on us. Yes it is a shame that we have grown into a nation that forgot to think for itself and fell into the trap of having to depend on your government to tell you how to live, what to do and what you are allowed to do. Do you know why we rely on foreign oil so much? Do you want to know why we have to rely on parts from foreign countries? Do you know why you are paying for health care for those who want to live off the government while you go to work? The answer is simple, We relied on others to take care of us and we gave up our freedom.

The day will come when you wake up and you no longer live your life, but the life that was forced upon you because you stopped questioning your so called elected officials!

 

[roadie]

I think US products are competitive. Quality is more important to me than price. Most people are just cheap or aren't willing to save for something...

Quality is more important to me too, that's why I drive a Honda and not a Ford. However, with that said, the quality vs. price also needs to make sense. And a $30 MM with 75% of the quality still performs nearly as good or as good than a $300 MM that has no blemishes, smoother threads, and a fancy logo that's beautifully engraved. You still have to weed through the crap, but I haven't any issues with my clones so far.

 

[Richard75]

No contradiction whatsoever. When did I bash the makers? I said IMO, I wouldn't pay for a full-priced original, as I feel they are way overpriced. That's MY opinion. If I buy a clone, it's because I like the way it looks, the good reviews it has received, or because of the price. If it looks like the original, I don't care. If it looks unique, I don't care.

You called it a ripoff, which to me is a form of bashing (calling anything a ripoff is bashing not only the product, but the maker). But it is a bit of a contradiction. By buying a stolen design that you may love, you're effectively snubbing the person who created that design which you love. In my opinion, this is made worse by the intention of never buying an original because it's a "ripoff". I empathize with people who can't afford some high end stuff. But there are many, many affordable mods that are not counterfeits or stolen designs (inspired-by yes, but not exact replicas).

This is an endless debate, and there will never be a conclusion. Both arguments are fueled by a form self righteousness. Ours is we prefer to support the makers no matter the cost. Yours, you refuse to because of the cost. It's an even debate. But if clones (and I mean counterfeits, replicas, 1:1's) didn't exist, and thus, the "clone wars" didn't exist, the originals still would, regardless of your opinion on their prices. This is your fight.

 

[HawaiiVPR]

The only issue I would have with a clone is if I was sold one marketed as real. However, that would be a problem I would take up with the vendor, not the manufacturer.

Would I buy a clone over the "authentic" version? If the quality was the same, or just slightly lesser at a fraction of the price, absolutely. If not, then I just weigh in what is important to me, what isn't. I don't take my mods out in public, belong to a vaping club or active in any modding communities, so serial numbers, exclusivity, rarity, etc... doesn't really mean much to me.

 

[Brusky]

The only issue I would have with a clone is if I was sold one marketed as real. However, that would be a problem I would take up with the vendor, not the manufacturer.

Would I buy a clone over the "authentic" version? If the quality was the same, or just slightly lesser at a fraction of the price, absolutely. If not, then I just weigh in what is important to me, what isn't. I don't take my mods out in public, belong to a vaping club or active in any modding communities, so serial numbers, exclusivity, rarity, etc... doesn't really mean much to me.

Clones are basically counterfeits unless the product has been contracted out.

If people rely on patent infringement to dictate counterfeits than, I don't know what to tell you.

But every hobby has counterfeits/fakes. In golf there are many fake clubs and drivers. In cars there are many fake wheels and parts. In watches there are many faked high end watches.

It's one thing to buy the fakes. But be proud of buying them? Now that's laughable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[lilstan]

Here's my thoughts on clones. I don't like the fact that they use the authentic logo's and marking. If they didn't do that, I wouldn't have a problem with clones at all. Quality is definitely not the same. That's why they're so much cheaper. As for me, I started out with a clone just to test the waters. Now after seeing that I love vaping and it's helping me quit smoking. I've decided to "upgrade" and buy all new authentic products. Cause let's be honest. It's kind of ridiculous to expect someone to go out and buy an authentic mod for $200+ and not know if they like vaping or not. I think clones are a great entry level mod for newbies.

 

[gypsymage777]

The problem I have with OEMs? Overpriced, limited quantity. The problem I have with Chinese clones? Hit and miss quality.

A lot of people are starting at the bottom to find answers. I want to know why OEMs have a problem manufacturing and distributing a product to meet demand. Lately, I have seen clones come on the market about the same time the OEMs are available. Something smells like a rat.

Second, it was not many months ago, I mean like maybe 2 or 3, that clones are coming from unknown mfg's and many are failures. I have a kayfun lite I bought off ebay that I am determined to think was never meant to actually work. I have a Nemesis mod with a wonky button that is also from an unknown clone mfg.. It was bad enough to try to determine the quality of EHpro, Hcigar, Tobeco, but now we are seeing an influx of these "unknown" mfg's that end up being bought from Fast tech (or some fly by night from Alibaba) and flipped on EBAY. We are officially now in the period of "we don't know ... we are getting" any more and about the time you buy 2 or 3 clones and hope one works correctly you should have bought the original to start with and save the time, money, and hassle.

 

[Jman8]

Believe it or not, there really is a legal system. If people really want to protect their "Intellectual property rights", then they should use the legal system, and copyright their "Intellectual property ". Hell, even my coffee cup is copyrighted!

And copying/replicating something that is copyrighted is easy to do. If the legal system worked to prevent that, we'd be living in a vastly different world. Instead, replicating and ripping off is the system in place. Preventing rip offs is so socially gauche. How dare you control my desire to freely share stuff with people. Control freak alert!

 

[keyman]

I just want to get the mortgage paid down a little before I buy any high end equipment, I'm sure the misses will appreciate it .

 

[Baldr]

All of these made in china clones that are out, are inferior products.

The vast majority of the made-in-china clones are copies of another product which is made in china. Joytech eGo's, for instance. Kanger.

I don't think you've thought this through.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Patent or ©Copyright or ®Trademark?

A distinction should be made regarding what we call this ..

A patent is a limited duration property right relating to an invention, granted by the United States Patent and Trademark Office in exchange for public disclosure of the invention.

Copyrights can be obtained for things of an artistic nature. This includes poetry, films, sculptures, music, fiction, etc. Copyrights can also be obtained for advertising copy, games, software programs and blueprints.

Trademarks can be names of products or services, Logos, slogans, packaging and even sounds and smells. In essence, a trademark can be almost anything that is used to identify a particular product or service. Registering a trademark grants the owner exclusive rights to the mark within the specified industry.

Now, the gray area really is the design as well as the trademark when we talk about PV's .. the idea itself is essentially the same .. a battery operated device that vaporizes a liquid designed to simulate smoking ..

Regardless, the import of merch that is Trademarked/Patented by any company .. whether it be Gucci, or Rolex or anything else, can be seized if the trademark is replicated without the owners permission .. and large, well known Companies do actively protect their trademarks ..

In the case of a PV, it is really the design and/or trademark that distinguishes the hardware ..

 

[Underwhelmed]

Kayfun Lite Plus - Availability: In stock

But they don't ship to the US.

 

[jp_cfc09]

well I like them lol.

was getting my innokin vv v3 from my b&m costings me £65, untill I seen fast tech sell the original for £24 which innokin cliam fake but its not fake. they just get it from the china factory they get to make them or something lol. seen a uk vendor selling for £30 which is better for customer service so thats my choice. can anyone seriously tell me why I should buy this from my b&m who are registered retailers for innokin products for a extra £35, hell I can buy two from that online vendor and a bottle of juice for £65. theres being loyal and theres being stupid, if my b&m was even at £40 id buy from them for it being easier and faster. no way do they need that much to make a profit.

 

[espkh123]

I do understand most people live paycheck to paycheck, I am one of these people. I make 940 a month each check is gone before I get it. I manage to get my supplies with money I saved from smoking.

Some people make even less than that.
A few people will be lucky if the get 500 a month and they have bills to pay too.
All I'm saying is 940 a month is close to 12,000 a year. That is more than some who vape. Hell - some people make 5,000 a year and vape. You think they can justify spending 200 on a mod, 100 on a dripper, 100 on an RBA, then other supplies?
Thats all I mean, it lets everyone have mech mods.
If only pricey authentics were out we would have a lot of people still smoking cigarettes. Some people hate regulated mods and they don't work - everyone is different.