clone vs Authentic: The Real Discussion

[DoubleEwe]

I am pretty sure that the majority of people who buy clones are buying them because:

1) They serve as a functional vaping tool
2) They like the design aspects
3) They are reasonably priced

China (etc) are only manufacturing clones because there is a known demand/liking for certain mods (Nemesis, Stringray etc), the marketing has been done for them by the original manufacturer, so it is an easy way to tap in to the unfulfilled demand for the product. They fill the gap left by the original manufacturer.

Now, personally speaking, I could not give a _______ (expletive of your choice) about who designed the original, if I like the design then I like the design, simple as that.

So, when China do start coming out with original designs (which they have started to) I will happily buy a mod that I see and like the look of, regardless of it not having the (false) prestige factor or having originally been sold for stupid money and been manufactured by some super-hyped 'home grown' company.

I am sure that a lot of people feel the same.

 

[DPLongo22]

Wow. My head hurts.

Anybody got a smoke?

 

[danca90]

I don't support small business. They usually cannot stay competitive.
I see no reason to spend my money on their inability to make a product at a competitive price point.

 

[USMCotaku]

That site showed, AND mentioned in the disclaimer, that the products had the original companies logos.....now are you altering the challenge? If you put the two side by side, of comparable models, and had an untrained person pick the real from the fake many couldn't do it....JUST like the mech clones. Who hasn't worn a pair of nock off sunglasses? I mean who wants to pay 2-300 bucks for something they can get for 25 bucks........oh, wow, that sounds familiar! Don't offer me a challenge and change the parameters when I come through. Who was touting about morals to whome?
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[bluecat]

And are the mod clones EXACT copies?
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I believe the clones are the same thing. Not the original. Not made by the original manufacturer. Not associated with them... unless of course they purchased the right to make them as clones. (I have no clue in the matter).

Surprising.... There has only been one lawsuit I know of. It was only for the logo too. Pretty weak too from the case I saw. Anyway Samsung and Apple have been slugging it out forever. The only people making money there are the attorneys and the only people losing are the consumers who have to subsidize the legal fees.

 

[DC2]

I don't support small business. They usually cannot stay competitive.
I see no reason to spend my money on their inability to make a product at a competitive price point.

Oligarchy for the win Alex!

 

[turbocad6]

they say "....The products we offer are not knock offs, replica or fake with the designer company's trademarks on them, but are inspired by and comparable to the designer trademarked name..... Our products are no name brands..."

I'm still waiting to see one legitimate example similar to what we have as "clones"

 

[turbocad6]

That site showed, AND mentioned in the disclaimer, that the products had the original companies logos.....now are you altering the challenge? If you put the two side by side, of comparable models, and had an untrained person pick the real from the fake many couldn't do it....JUST like the mech clones. Who hasn't worn a pair of nock off sunglasses? I mean who wants to pay 2-300 bucks for something they can get for 25 bucks........oh, wow, that sounds familiar! Don't offer me a challenge and change the parameters when I come through. Who was touting about morals to whome?
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dude, reading is fundamental... they say: "The products we offer are not knock offs, replica or fake with the designer company's trademarks on them,.."

that means they do NOT have the companies trademarks on them... challenge still stands

 

[USMCotaku]

They say that for legalese....but logos are prominently displayed. You can go down to the .99 cents only store and pick up a pair of glasses that look just like channel...logo and all. I was asked to find a product sold in the states that copies even the logos....i quickly did, which means there are lots more to be found. Quibbling about the sites disclaimer, that they put up to protect themselves, instead of looking at the true evidence there on the page is just silly, and shows that evidence is irrelevant to some people. There mind is set and that is that. Good enough for me, I'm out. Someone else can play your game, I've not the time to devote anymore.
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[turbocad6]

They say that for legalese....but logos are prominently displayed. You can go down to the .99 cents only store and pick up a pair of glasses that look just like channel...logo and all. I was asked to find a product sold in the states that copies even the logos....i quickly did, which means there are lots more to be found. Quibbling about the sites disclaimer, that they put up to protect themselves, instead of looking at the true evidence there on the page is just silly, and shows that evidence is irrelevant to some people. There mind is set and that is that. Good enough for me, I'm out. Someone else can play your game, I've not the time to devote anymore.
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I didn't see any logos before you mentioned it but now yeah, I do... I guess you are right and there are other industries that get away with it, the "disclaimer" shows that they are bending the law as much as they can though, still doesn't make it right but I'll concede and say you are right, I guess other companies in other industries also do the whole rip off counterfeit stuff too...

 

[danca90]

I didn't see any logos before you mentioned it but now yeah, I do... I guess you are right and there are other industries that get away with it, the "disclaimer" shows that they are bending the law as much as they can though, still doesn't make it right but I'll concede and say you are right, I guess other companies in other industries also do the whole rip off counterfeit stuff too...

A counterfeit is passing off a fake as a original.
Cloning =/= counterfeit.

 

[USMCotaku]

I just got stopped by a train, so time enough for one more post.....the sunglasses (the dolce and gabbana are the ones most blatant) are far more illegal then most mod clones, since DG is a registered trademark
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[FatherTime]

i agree that we should support small business. but i also support clones. heres a few reasons why:
1. 99% of authentic devices sell out, so its not like authentic manufacturers cant move their product
1.5. because of #1, you cant always get your hands on the authentic (gi2 for example)
2. you usually buy clones from a vendor in the us meaning youre usually supporting a small business when buying a clone too
3. not everyone and i think most people cant afford devices that cost hundreds of dollars
4. almost no one tried to sell a clone as an authentic
5. youre not forced to buy an authentic or a clone! youre not forced to sell an authentic or a clone. its a choice.

whatever you want to buy/sell is up to you. everyone wins regardless. i buy clones because they can be just as good and sometimes better than the authentics and they cost like a 1/5 the price. i support the manufacturing and sale of both

 

[USMCotaku]

Agreed, they both have there place. There will always be a market for authentic mods, clones if anything bring more people into the mech world. If I suddenly came into money I would be happy to drop cash on an authentic paragon mod....i would be in a different situation. Until something like that happens, I can't justify spending that kind of money, so my next mod will probably be a paragon clone, used (a guy I know has one that hits like a beast, but he wants to get a new toy soon). I just really get annoyed when someone alludes to me being immoral for buying what I can afford, especially when a) I've broken no laws/rules and b) the people saying such have most likely purchased plenty of knockoffs of their own through the years.
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[Zealous]

Actually someone did make a clone of the REO. They were asking nearly as much as the authentic though. I couldn't tell what material it was made out of but it didn't look as nice as the genuine for sure.

In all fairness the same could be said for the Reo. The reo is an authentic high quality expensive mod that is run by one person and as of yet no one has cloned it (or else you would have heard it vehemently opposed)

here's the thread that shows what the clone looks like. I was thinking he was selling it for almost as much but actually he was selling it for more so that's really pretty hilarious. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/reos-mods/572403-what-do-you-make-modded-mini-2-1-what.html

 

[crxess]

you cannot Clone a Mod - NO DNA

You can only make a 1:1 Copy

 

[Bigflyrodder]

Um, yes in many cases they certainly are trying to be even down to the logos and fake seriel numbers. Absolutely.

I keep seeing people talking about the modder "gouging" us with pricing. Isn't possible that one of the reasons they have to set prices where they do is because they know they need to recoup their costs and make a little profit quickly before the item is clones and sales drop off or die all together?

Again, I own and buy both but I try to give credit where it is due and don't begrude modders for making a modest profit where deserved. I never would have gotten into mechs if it wasn't for clones, no way I was going to drop the money for an authentic before I knew if I even liked it but since then I have purchase nothing but authentics. Used off the classies but authentic just the same.

 

[Bigflyrodder]

you cannot Clone a Mod - NO DNA

You can only make a 1:1 Copy

ROFL... well said.

 

[auxsend]

I can actually buy 3 authentic mods I want right now and inside 3 different B&Ms a copper 4nine at one store, a copper Manhattan with or without gold contacts at 2 stores and the copper Vigo at 1-2 stores. Also most things sold are sold way above what it cost to make it, shoes, clothes, sunglasses, electronics, watches and jewelry even going out to eat, it's a business. It's like saying why buy expensive Nikes or higher end designer shoes when you can buy all your shoes at Payless, because you just put your feet in it.

Well consider yourself lucky. I cannot go to a store and buy an authentic mod. I don't have that option.

I completely agree. There are high end and not so high end products in every market. The problem with mods at the moment is:

You can't stand on a moral high ground when all of the "authentic" mod makers are high end. Period.
There is no parity in the vaping market without clones.

Clones are filling the gap. So until a modder makes an "Authentic" product at a competitive price. All this down with clones talk is nonsense.
It's necessary until the lower end product market catches up.

It may never happen. I get that too. Clones do an excellent job of filling the gap already. And who are we kidding, they aren't going anywhere.

 

[tayone415]

Well consider yourself lucky. I cannot go to a store and buy an authentic mod. I don't have that option.

I completely agree. There are high end and not so high end products in every market. The problem with mods at the moment is:

You can't stand on a moral high ground when all of the "authentic" mod makers are high end. Period.
There is no parity in the vaping market without clones.

Clones are filling the gap. So until a modder makes an "Authentic" product at a competitive price. All this down with clones talk is nonsense.
It's necessary until the lower end product market catches up.

It may never happen. I get that too. Clones do an excellent job of filling the gap already. And who are we kidding, they aren't going anywhere.

You make some good points. But, just wanted to add that you can buy cheap non clone vape gear. The Magnetos are cheap I've seen go for $50-100 at B&Ms so obviously can be found cheaper online. But, still there are clones of it. A higher end mod compared to the Magneto is Smok-e Mountain Vanilla mods that can be found from $120-180 US, which isn't bad there are other mods under the $200 point if you find anodized aluminum Manhattan it can be found for $160-180. Then you have UD for the igos and they have their own mod.

If people want clones they're going to buy it, it works for some but not all. But now clones and knock offs are getting out of hand like counterfeit batteries and clones of clones and cloning the UD igo-w which is only $12-20 to begin with.