Cold maceration of tobacco

[Flt Simulation]

One other question ... I have one Mason jar with an airlock attached to the lid.

Will the crushed-up cigars start to ferment in the Mason jar ... so as to need a water-filled airlock attached to the lid of the Mason jar in order to vent the gasses created by fermentation?

 

[Flt Simulation]

Here is a photo of the Mason jar with the airlock attached ... A Google search tells me the word "Maceration" means to "Ferment" ... But I have a hard time believing that a chopped-up cigar setting in some PG liquid will actually start to ferment (and thus needing an airlock to vent the CO2 and other gasses produced by the fermentation process).

Were not making beer or wine here!

 

[MFToms59]

Flt Simulation, if your using PG to extract flavor, the Cigar won't ferment since PG & VG is a preservative. Heck I use Distilled Water only in a Mason Jar, 21-24 day window steep, and my extracts are fine, no sourness or spoiling. During the Steep/ maceration, I burp my two-piece Mason lid daily, and sniff my progress.

Using PG & Cold Maceration, I think you're looking closer to 5-6 weeks for good flavor... just my guess here. Personally I hate the microwave, when I heat-assist an extraction, I use a very low heat. I'll put the uncovered Mason jar in a small pot, fill the water ~2/3 up the outside of the jar and simmer ~3-5 hours.

The amount of PG used will be enough to cover the macerated Cigar, in your case, I would guess ~150ml for a whole cigar. If you vape @24mg Nic, you could use it to steep the cigar, but you'll be losing liquid during the filtering process, not sure how much, but you'll have less than what you started with.

 

[Flt Simulation]

MFToms ... Thanks for the info.

Like I said in my earlier post ... I tried making cigar extract using a couple of very expensive imported cigars and a little water. Even had it setting in a hot water bath for a couple of days, then at room temp for a couple of weeks ... then heated it more until almost all the water evaporated in order to get a concentrated cigar extract ... then filtered through some coffee filters

The bottom line was that it was finally thrown down the sink as a bad experiment.

I am wiling to try this again, but there has to be a much better approach to all this.

I would really like to see how these small vendors that are selling there NET extract online for a hefty price are actually making this stuff .... Can't be any more complicated than making an atomic bomb!

 

[Flt Simulation]

Well, I ordered 17 ml of "5 Vegas Gold" cigar extract from My Vape Juice.

Got to be better than that crap I made before!

 

[MFToms59]

I concentrate my Distilled Water extract after removing the Tobacco leaves and filtering 3xs using Doubled Coffee Filters, I usually reduce it 50-70%, and filter one last time.

I mix my Vape juice with 20% flavor extract, 50/50 @14-18mg Nic, the Nicotine level depends on my delivery method, lower Nic for Bottom-Feed or RBA, higher for rebuidable tanks.

 

[Bunnykiller]

Here is a photo of the Mason jar with the airlock attached ... A Google search tells me the word "Maceration" means to "Ferment" ... But I have a hard time believing that a chopped-up cigar setting in some PG liquid will actually start to ferment (and thus needing an airlock to vent the CO2 and other gasses produced by the fermentation process).

Were not making beer or wine here!

thats the smallest carboy I have ever seen

 

[Bunnykiller]

The method I have been using is doing the steeping process in PGA (everclear). I use approx. 1-2 oz of tobacco, 3-4 oz Everclear( or enuf to cover tobacco) let sit at room temp for 3-4 days, occasionally swirling the mixture ( once a day) to check on color density. When it becomes about the same color of strong (dark) brewed tea, I filter the masceration thru 2 layers of coffie filters and a silk scarf. after filtering, I set the "juice" ( in a jar) into a crockpot set on warm ( 120-130F) lid loose and let the everclear evaporate off until an 1/2 ounce is left. That gets filtered thru coffie filter to remove solids and oils. The concentrated extract is then added to VG and tested for flavor density, I add more VG if flavor is too bold/strong, but leave it on the heavy side for addition of Nic base. Once nic base is added, it gets to rest for a couple of weeks.... been seeing some promising results.

 

[Digame]

Im doing the PG soak at either room temp for a month or in a crock for a day. Is there any point to filtering it through a coffee filter twice? A filter is a filter, right?

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk

 

[MikeNice81]

Im doing the PG soak at either room temp for a month or in a crock for a day. Is there any point to filtering it through a coffee filter twice? A filter is a filter, right?

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk

You get a little bit cleaner juice with each pass, up to a point. I can tell you that MFT's Drew Estates Cold Infusion can run for nearly 5ml before gunking if you rinse out your clearo's (Evod 2) head between tanks. Even lower in the bottle it was still running cleaner than netcom juices.

So, multiple passes seems to help. If you're filtering at 2.5microns to start a single pass might be plenty. I would still do multiple though.

 

[Digame]

You get a little bit cleaner juice with each pass, up to a point. I can tell you that MFT's Drew Estates Cold Infusion can run for nearly 5ml before gunking if you rinse out your clearo's (Evod 2) head between tanks. Even lower in the bottle it was still running cleaner than netcom juices.

So, multiple passes seems to help. If you're filtering at 2.5microns to start a single pass might be plenty. I would still do multiple though.

would you need to vacuum it with a 2.5 micron filter? im going to first filter it through one of those gold coffee filters. Im just trying to limit the time I spend filtering since I plan on filtering like 200ml at once.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk

 

[MikeNice81]

Some guys do 2.5 micron without a vacuum. It takes a couple of hours to filter the average cigar soak. A vacuum could cut down the time. The question is, can you find a decent setup at under $100?

How much gunk is acceptable is something you have to decide yourself. A little more time now may save you a lot of time or money later depending on your vaping setup. Re-wicking an Evod 2 takes 10 - 20 minutes with the dry burn. So, if you have to rewick after every tank how long does it take for the time saved on filtering to vanish?

 

[billherbst]

You get a little bit cleaner juice with each pass, up to a point. So, multiple passes seems to help. If you're filtering at 2.5microns to start a single pass might be plenty. I would still do multiple though.

Common sense suggests that pore size in filter materials is not an absolute. We're dealing in the real world here. Makes sense to me that some particulates at or larger than the pore size get through a filtering pass, simply because areas of the "mesh" threading in the filter material may get stretched or broken, leaving some pores larger than spec. Multiple filtering passes---even with the same pore size filter---probably reduce the volume of particulates across the bell curve distribution, measured in parts per million. Up to a point, anyway, as Mike noted.

I'm lazy and impatient, however. So, I'm happy filtering to 5 microns with my single-pass dual-stage French Press (wire mesh, then polyester felt) method, and I appreciate the ease and convenience of a single filtering pass that is quick, easy, and not messy.

I bought a second small (12oz/350ml) French Press from eBay, a Chinese knock-off of the traditional Euro-style French Presses---borosilicate glass carafe, chromed metal holder and top. $10.49 with free shipping. Yes, the materials are cheap, not up to the standards of my 30-year-old French Melior, but for my purposes that's OK. I bought it thinking that the chrome-plated ball on top of the plunger would probably unscrew, allowing removal of the lid. And I was right---removing the top cap from the plunger was a snap.

Why is that important? Ordinarily, the plunger assembly is designed so that the "throw" of the plunger is stopped half an inch from the bottom of the carafe. No doubt that's a design feature to prevent people from inadvertently breaking the glass carafe by pressing down too hard on the coffee grounds. With a maceration, that space isn't a problem. The tobacco solids can still be pressed forcefully to squeeze out any absorbed solvent. To re-filter existing extracts, however, the design is no good. That half-inch of space hold 30-40ml of liquid, which won't go through the filter. Removing the lid from the plunger assembly lets the plunger filters go all the way to the bottom of the carafe, right down to the nut that holds on the wire mesh filter.

With the altered plunger, I'll be able to take some of my earlier extracts that were filtered through paper coffee filters (10-30 micron pore size) and re-filter them down to 5 microns. Cool. Now I just have to get up the gumption to do it. I've got about 20 extracts that might benefit from re-filtering, but my attention and interest tend to be focused on newly-acquired pipe blends and cigars awaiting extraction.

Even with really superb extractions, the "romance phase" is limited to a month or two before I'm ready to move on. "Revitalizing" some of the older extracts to give cleaner performance is a worthwhile task, but I have to re-kindle my interest in those extracts to make myself do it. LOL.

 

[Digame]

Common sense suggests that pore size in filter materials is not an absolute. We're dealing in the real world here. Makes sense to me that some particulates at or larger than the pore size get through a filtering pass, simply because areas of the "mesh" threading in the filter material may get stretched or broken, leaving some pores larger than spec. Multiple filtering passes---even with the same pore size filter---probably reduce the volume of particulates across the bell curve distribution, measured in parts per million. Up to a point, anyway, as Mike noted.

I'm lazy and impatient, however. So, I'm happy filtering to 5 microns with my single-pass dual-stage French Press (wire mesh, then polyester felt) method, and I appreciate the ease and convenience of a single filtering pass that is quick, easy, and not messy.

I bought a second small (12oz/350ml) French Press from eBay, a Chinese knock-off of the traditional Euro-style French Presses---borosilicate glass carafe, chromed metal holder and top. $10.49 with free shipping. Yes, the materials are cheap, not up to the standards of my 30-year-old French Melior, but for my purposes that's OK. I bought it thinking that the chrome-plated ball on top of the plunger would probably unscrew, allowing removal of the lid. And I was right---removing the top cap from the plunger was a snap.

Why is that important? Ordinarily, the plunger assembly is designed so that the "throw" of the plunger is stopped half an inch from the bottom of the carafe. No doubt that's a design feature to prevent people from inadvertently breaking the glass carafe by pressing down too hard on the coffee grounds. With a maceration, that space isn't a problem. The tobacco solids can still be pressed forcefully to squeeze out any absorbed solvent. To re-filter existing extracts, however, the design is no good. That half-inch of space hold 30-40ml of liquid, which won't go through the filter. Removing the lid from the plunger assembly lets the plunger filters go all the way to the bottom of the carafe, right down to the nut that holds on the wire mesh filter.

With the altered plunger, I'll be able to take some of my earlier extracts that were filtered through paper coffee filters (10-30 micron pore size) and re-filter them down to 5 microns. Cool. Now I just have to get up the gumption to do it. I've got about 20 extracts that might benefit from re-filtering, but my attention and interest tend to be focused on newly-acquired pipe blends and cigars awaiting extraction.

Even with really superb extractions, the "romance phase" is limited to a month or two before I'm ready to move on. "Revitalizing" some of the older extracts to give cleaner performance is a worthwhile task, but I have to re-kindle my interest in those extracts to make myself do it. LOL.

so with the press how often, or shall I say, after how many ml of vaping do you rewick or recoil?

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk

 

[billherbst]

so with the press how often, or shall I say, after how many ml of vaping do you rewick or recoil?

Dig,

No across-the-board answer exists for that question. Every component or part of the process affects flavor and performance.

Filtering method and pore-size of the filter (in my case, 5 micron, single-pass French Press) are only two of a number of variables that affect vaping performance relative to coil-crusting and wick-gunking. If we're talking about tobacco (I also extract coffee and tea), then every tobacco used may be different in its effects on coils and wicks. Cigar extract tends to be cleaner than pipe blend/RYO extract, but that generalization isn't a hard-and-fast rule that's reliable all the time. Type of maceration (heat-assisted short-steep or cold-processed room-temp long-steep) and duration of the steep make a big difference also. Percentage of extract used in mixing an NET liquid matters, too.

 

[Digame]

Dig,

No across-the-board answer exists for that question. Every component or part of the process affects flavor and performance.

Filtering method and pore-size of the filter (in my case, 5 micron, single-pass French Press) are only two of a number of variables that affect vaping performance relative to coil-crusting and wick-gunking. If we're talking about tobacco (I also extract coffee and tea), then every tobacco used may be different in its effects on coils and wicks. Cigar extract tends to be cleaner than pipe blend/RYO extract, but that generalization isn't a hard-and-fast rule that's reliable all the time. Type of maceration (heat-assisted short-steep or cold-processed room-temp long-steep) and duration of the steep make a big difference also. Percentage of extract used in mixing an NET liquid matters, too.

so good ol' trial and error, I kinda figured that

so how long do you steep after adding the pg/vg mix? Im using PG to extract.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk

 

[billherbst]

so how long do you steep after adding the pg/vg mix? Im using PG to extract.

Another question with no pat answer. Steeping time in a maceration depends on many, many variables, including whim.

 

[Digame]

You get a little bit cleaner juice with each pass, up to a point. I can tell you that MFT's Drew Estates Cold Infusion can run for nearly 5ml before gunking if you rinse out your clearo's (Evod 2) head between tanks. Even lower in the bottle it was still running cleaner than netcom juices.

So, multiple passes seems to help. If you're filtering at 2.5microns to start a single pass might be plenty. I would still do multiple though.

where you getting these 2.5 micron filters? prices are all over the place from 8 to 50$ for packs of 100 in the 9 to 11 cm size.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk

 

[MikeNice81]

I don't use them. Amazon runs a decent price. You can get a 100 pack of grade three (6 micron) for under $20 at Preiser Scientific- Coal Testing, Water Testing, General Laboratory, Calorimeter - Page 2

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Yes it was very dry, I had initially kept the leaf bunch more for its interesting look than anything else. I will be growing a few plants this year that I will take more care in the drying process.

I'm looking at this more as a proof of concept at this point.

I didn't ever take a starting weight of the leaf bunch, so I'm not sure just what the total moisture content reduction was. And to be quite honest I'm not sure where it should be. I do know that I could slow the drying process by controlling humidity during the drying, that's something I will play with next time.

I did try to select the best portions of leaf that most closely resembled the texture of cigarette tobacco, not fragile and too dry in my untrained opinion. But who knows?

I can only guess that if I have more dry matter in the mixture there is less water mass/volume taking up space.

If I have to double the PG quantity to allow for filtration via simple gravity it should halve the final inclusion percentages. At least I assume that would be the case.

Who knows, it may just turn to crap, or wonderful. Most likely the former LOL.

Maurice

Day 19 and I took a bit of the tobacco soaked PG and mixed it 5% in a 50:50 PG/VG blend.

Tastes a lot like...grass, yes yard grass, similar to chewing on a blade of grass.

I think I'll name the blend Hillbilly Silverado or something similar.

Yeah, this uncured KY 21 attempt isn't going to fly by my taste buds.

I'm going to bite the bullet and toss some money at the cigar shop this weekend and try again.

Maurice