Maurice, sounds like your tobacco was very dry prior to submersion allowing it to soak up a good amount of PG. It will be interesting to see what your yield is. Good luck!
Cold maceration of tobacco
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Yes it was very dry, I had initially kept the leaf bunch more for its interesting look than anything else. I will be growing a few plants this year that I will take more care in the drying process.
I'm looking at this more as a proof of concept at this point.
I didn't ever take a starting weight of the leaf bunch, so I'm not sure just what the total moisture content reduction was. And to be quite honest I'm not sure where it should be. I do know that I could slow the drying process by controlling humidity during the drying, that's something I will play with next time.
I did try to select the best portions of leaf that most closely resembled the texture of cigarette tobacco, not fragile and too dry in my untrained opinion. But who knows?
I can only guess that if I have more dry matter in the mixture there is less water mass/volume taking up space.
If I have to double the PG quantity to allow for filtration via simple gravity it should halve the final inclusion percentages. At least I assume that would be the case.
Who knows, it may just turn to crap, or wonderful. Most likely the former LOL.
Maurice
If you have PG just covering the tobacco, I doubt you'll have to add any more to accomplish filtration. You will have to press the tobacco to get most of the PG out of it. I do that with a small mesh strainer and a spoon. It will be interesting to see how your experiment turns out.
I like this idea, been kicking it around myself, I found a place online that sells Turkish tobacco seeds, how did you dry the leaves if I may ask??
Living in Wisconsin sun curing is out of the question...heh
Details details details....
I started a fresh extract on the 27th, checked it today, smells pretty good and is getting dark, I used the rolling tobacco wife is still using, nothing fancy Largo regular pipe tobacco, with some "sun grown natural" mixed in, only because its the dry bits wife doesn't use....heh
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Living in Wisconsin sun curing is out of the question...heh
Details details details....
I started a fresh extract on the 27th, checked it today, smells pretty good and is getting dark, I used the rolling tobacco wife is still using, nothing fancy Largo regular pipe tobacco, with some "sun grown natural" mixed in, only because its the dry bits wife doesn't use....heh
Sent from Star Dock, on my HTC One
I cut the leaves off the plant close to the plant's main stem once they start to turn color from green to yellow, then thread them together.
This forms a bunch of leaves that can be hung up to dry.
Basically I air cured my tobacco.
Maurice
This forms a bunch of leaves that can be hung up to dry.
Basically I air cured my tobacco.
Maurice
Do you just hang them up in a dark dry closet??
Or anywhere bugs cant get at them?? I think it is too late to order and plant some this year, but I can get all ready for next year.....
Pretty much. My basement is several doors away from outside and very much insect free in terms of anything that would eat or harm the tobacco as it cures.
I never did try to ferment the tobacco, that is an additional step I have yet to attempt. Maybe next time I will have enough to try that.
I would think someone on this forum has some experience with that though.
Maurice
I never did try to ferment the tobacco, that is an additional step I have yet to attempt. Maybe next time I will have enough to try that.
I would think someone on this forum has some experience with that though.
Maurice
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I bought a pouch of 4Aces Turkish blend "pipe" tobacco to see how Turkish might taste before I try to grow it....
Sent from Star Dock, on my HTC One
Sent from Star Dock, on my HTC One
After a month of soaking tobacco in pg. Which had been sitting on a shelf in my basement office. A cool area. I finally filtered 2 out of 3. Will let the other one filter today.
Mixed the lane and the McClelland each at 15%. 50/50. Zero nic. Shake. Shake and tasted on IGO-L with cotton wick / 1.5 coil. Taste good!
I'll let them sit for a few days before I try again.
Here's a few pics of the process I took. After pouring any liquid that came out of mason jar I dumped the rest with all the tobacco. Let it sit over night. I covered the top of the funnel with saran wrap just to protect from any thing flying in there while sitting over night.
There's so many flavors at pipes and cigars. Not sure what to try next!
vaping one day at a time
Mixed the lane and the McClelland each at 15%. 50/50. Zero nic. Shake. Shake and tasted on IGO-L with cotton wick / 1.5 coil. Taste good!
I'll let them sit for a few days before I try again.
Here's a few pics of the process I took. After pouring any liquid that came out of mason jar I dumped the rest with all the tobacco. Let it sit over night. I covered the top of the funnel with saran wrap just to protect from any thing flying in there while sitting over night.
There's so many flavors at pipes and cigars. Not sure what to try next!
vaping one day at a time
Oh. I did two mixes of the same flavor. One just the tobacco flavor and another I added about 2-3 drops of vape wizard. Just to see if there's a taste difference after its steeps for a few days.
I simply let the flavors sit on a shelf in my office. On avg temp is 75? Degrees. No heat. No ultrasonic. Shake each day allowing the flavors to marry each other.
vaping one day at a time
I simply let the flavors sit on a shelf in my office. On avg temp is 75? Degrees. No heat. No ultrasonic. Shake each day allowing the flavors to marry each other.
vaping one day at a time
Sounds good, Claire, although I can't personally imagine vaping zero nic liquids. If you can, more power to you.
From my online reading about tobacco blends, I take it that Lane is the single most popular pipe blender/brand in the U.S. I don't know whether that means that Lane is the Chevy of pipe tobaccos (think GM recalls) or the Toyota of pipe tobaccos. LOL. I've not purchased any Lane 1-oz. bulk samplers from pipes&cigars for extraction. I assume they're rather heavily cased with other flavorings, but I may be wrong.
Cold and dark aren't necessary for room-temp extractions. In fact, I'm inclined to think that the "Sun-tea" method---putting the sealed maceration jars on a sunny windowsill for two weeks---would be a very good way of combining cold-process with heat-assisted macerations. And talk about natural! Solar-powered and off the electrical grid!
I'm not a fan of ultrasonic or microwave "steeping-acceleration." Maybe those technologies work for that purpose, but they're vaguely creepy to me. To my way of thinking, steeping is something that occurs naturally as time passes. I vape both DIY and retail juices at every stage---from brand-new to alzheimer's old age. My only rule is that I have to like them. If I don't like a juice, I don't vape it, in which case it goes into the juice dungeon, and I'll give it a re-try every couple of months for awhile, but eventually if the juice doesn't come around (or I don't, whichever), I throw it out.
Anyway, your methods, patience, and attention to detail seem well thought-out and careful.
From my online reading about tobacco blends, I take it that Lane is the single most popular pipe blender/brand in the U.S. I don't know whether that means that Lane is the Chevy of pipe tobaccos (think GM recalls) or the Toyota of pipe tobaccos. LOL. I've not purchased any Lane 1-oz. bulk samplers from pipes&cigars for extraction. I assume they're rather heavily cased with other flavorings, but I may be wrong.
Cold and dark aren't necessary for room-temp extractions. In fact, I'm inclined to think that the "Sun-tea" method---putting the sealed maceration jars on a sunny windowsill for two weeks---would be a very good way of combining cold-process with heat-assisted macerations. And talk about natural! Solar-powered and off the electrical grid!
I'm not a fan of ultrasonic or microwave "steeping-acceleration." Maybe those technologies work for that purpose, but they're vaguely creepy to me. To my way of thinking, steeping is something that occurs naturally as time passes. I vape both DIY and retail juices at every stage---from brand-new to alzheimer's old age. My only rule is that I have to like them. If I don't like a juice, I don't vape it, in which case it goes into the juice dungeon, and I'll give it a re-try every couple of months for awhile, but eventually if the juice doesn't come around (or I don't, whichever), I throw it out.
Anyway, your methods, patience, and attention to detail seem well thought-out and careful.
Looks like everything went well Claire. Extract and juice will definitely benefit from steeping, with flavor nuances coming forward over several weeks for some tobaccos.
The number of good tobacco blends is huge! I've been lucky to have extracted almost all winners with some studying and reading descriptions and reviews. Should you extract a blend not to your taste, there is a PIF/trade thread for NETs: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...atural-extracted-tobacco-pif-swap-thread.html
The number of good tobacco blends is huge! I've been lucky to have extracted almost all winners with some studying and reading descriptions and reviews. Should you extract a blend not to your taste, there is a PIF/trade thread for NETs: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...atural-extracted-tobacco-pif-swap-thread.html
I know the title says cold, but I've been reading good results with 5 days PG in a 130F water bath. I've got on of thos electric hot plates thought I'd give it a try.
Not sure how much tobacco per volume of PG.
Also I have great filters sock, from 1 micron all up to 200 micron. What would you use. I was thinking one pass with 200 then one with 1 micron. I've been sampling a few commercial nets where it is very obvious they aren't filtering well enough . Clogs up everything in the tank. I think filtering is the most important part of making a NET.
Not sure how much tobacco per volume of PG.
Also I have great filters sock, from 1 micron all up to 200 micron. What would you use. I was thinking one pass with 200 then one with 1 micron. I've been sampling a few commercial nets where it is very obvious they aren't filtering well enough . Clogs up everything in the tank. I think filtering is the most important part of making a NET.
Filtration is the most critical part of tobacco extraction without a doubt. No hard and fast rules here, just experimentation to get a flavorful, good performing result. There are several methods of extraction that work and each has it's own discussion thread here.
I vape at 6mg usually. Or 3mg to zero for flavors I like to drip a lot. I started at 18mg ( 1yr ago). Went to 12 for a while and now at 6mg. I go thru 10mls a day maybe. I don't keep track I just know I refill / top off two diff 15ml bottles about every other day. Never thought I'd go below 12 as soon as I did. Especially after smoking 32 yrs -- a pack to 2 packs. Now making my own tobacco flavors is making it even more enjoyable!
I randomly chose the ones I did based on descriptions. About the same as throwing a dart to choose. ;-)
The place I chose was not because of temp or lighting. Was only because I had a shelf area in my office which happens to be where I mix and store all my diy supplies.
I was a big sun tea maker back in the day and like the idea of placing the maceration jars in a sunny spot of the house. More than likely next time I will sun brew.
My thoughts on heat steeping is that it is cooking the flavors. Where IMO they need to blend together naturally-- not change then with heat.
If the recipe and base is right. I have found with shaking for a few days gives good results.
I bought a berry creamy from a online vendor. At first it was perfume smelling. I placed it in a bowl of warm water till it cooled. Let it sit for a week - shaking it often. At the end of the week it almost smelled sour. In my opinion the hot water changed whatever cream flavor might have been in there.
Not to side track about steeping. However to me each step in the process can make a diff in final result. Same as baking. Some ingredients just need folded in. Where others need a high speed blending.
Thank you. If it wasn't for this thread I wouldn't have known where to start.
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Many experienced home extractors feel the same way you do. I may be an exception, in that all 36 of my extractions to date have been heat-assisted.
I understand the concerns about "cooking" the macerated slurry/suspension. It makes sense to me that heat will, to some extent (depending on temperature and time), alter the flavors---I won't say "destroy," though some people feel that way. Room-temperature slow-steep maceration should allow a "truer" representation of the tobacco.
That said, I haven't found much, if any, substantive difference in practice between heat-assisted and cold-processed macerations. The commonly accepted wisdom is that heating provides greater intensity of flavor, whereas cold-process yields greater subtlety and wider range of flavors. Again, however, I haven't found that to be true in any significant fashion. I'm not suggesting that no one could discern the difference, only that I don't find it meaningful. On top of that, while heat probably does alter the flavors, I tend to like the results.
I use a warm water bath for my sealed maceration jars. My most recent batch of five cigars got a five-day steep in a water bath that was strictly regulated to 130° F. Compared to my previous batch of four cigars that were steeped for three days at 140-160°, this new batch is much less intensely flavored. Still delicious, but not as much cigar oomph.
I think I'll go back to the higher temps for my next batches of pipe tobaccos and cigars, because I'm not especially concerned with "authenticity" or "subtlety" at this point. My particular quest these days is to achieve the Holy Grail of opposites---intense, rich flavors, but clean performance (meaning that the NET juice made from the extracts is kind to coils/wicks, i.e., slow to leave burned-on crust/crud on the coils and darkening of the wicks).
This is part of what I love about being an amateur home extractor (as opposed to being a commercial NET vendor). The only people we have to please are ourselves.
Hey Bill. I am really happy with the method that I settled on after reading up on Flavor Chemistry. Unless your using alcohol in your extraction, I would suggest an airtight cover for the whole maceration process. Heat, under 150F allows flavor molecule exchange at a quicker pace compared to room temperature. Even using heat, I let my stew simmer for 4-6 weeks depending on what type of tobacco I'm using. Once a week I uncover and stir using an hotplate at 130F for 15 minutes. Then recover.
Higher temperatures cook of the flavor molecules in steam release. You may not see it but it's happening. I find that I get more flavor and presence from an cigar extract with a longer steep. Six weeks for light and medium tobaccos while four weeks seem okay for the darker maduro types. Even when an extract is bottled up as finished; as time goes by some flavors become richer and deeper while others turn to mule taint.
I'm still at the hit or miss stage with my extracts because every one of them is new. I think I've only repeated two or three varietals to refill my working stock. I didn't realize that one can go through a 60 ml bottle of extract so fast. It's because every experiment in mixing varietals takes up a lot of the base liquids.
I do the end of the month finances and realize I've gone through a couple of gallons each of PG and VG. Jeesh!
Higher temperatures cook of the flavor molecules in steam release. You may not see it but it's happening. I find that I get more flavor and presence from an cigar extract with a longer steep. Six weeks for light and medium tobaccos while four weeks seem okay for the darker maduro types. Even when an extract is bottled up as finished; as time goes by some flavors become richer and deeper while others turn to mule taint.
I'm still at the hit or miss stage with my extracts because every one of them is new. I think I've only repeated two or three varietals to refill my working stock. I didn't realize that one can go through a 60 ml bottle of extract so fast. It's because every experiment in mixing varietals takes up a lot of the base liquids.
I do the end of the month finances and realize I've gone through a couple of gallons each of PG and VG. Jeesh!
boomer,
Yes, I've read numerous posts on the various extraction threads that hold---for a bunch of different reasons---that heat in excess of 150° is deleterious to the extract. The reason you wrote in your post---that higher temps cook off the flavor molecules in steam release---is another one I'll add to the pile.
I feel, however, that the "hard science" of extractions is somewhat akin to "molecular cuisine" relative to traditional gastronomy, or to the statistical approach to managing a baseball team versus the traditional assumptions of old-school baseball. Interesting, but not gospel. Everyone decides for him/herself if rules apply, and, if so, which ones to follow. I take everything I read---on ECF and elsewhere---with a grain of salt, including what I write. I cherry-pick what pleases me and ignore what doesn't.
No disrespect intended, my friend.
For instance, it makes sense to me to use airtight sealed lids, so I always have and will no doubt continue. It's different with temperatures and steep durations for my warm water baths, however. I like experimenting with different temps (from 120° to 170°) and varying durations from one extraction batch to another just to see what I'll get. I don't regard my results as proof of anything, since a myriad of uncontrolled variables affect the outcomes. Although I do use some general guidelines and preferred routines, this is my hobby, and I enjoy playing around with it.
I was surprised and shocked that my first batch of cigar extracts turned out beautifully. I feared that I had ruined them by overcooking (three days in the water bath, with temps that varied from tepid to 170°, meaning room temp to steamy water). And yet, those four extracts absolutely knocked my socks off. My second batch of cigars, macerated longer (five days) at a lower temperature (rigorously controlled 130° with an oven thermometer for the whole five days) yielded extracts that are darned good, but not as spectacular as the first bunch. We can speculate about why, but I'm dubious that any reasons we might come up with would be infallibly correct. Happily, the new batch is so clean that I compensated by simply upping the percentage of extract in the mix (from 22% to 28%), and that's working nicely to provide the extra flavor boost I wanted.
I'm comfortable with the "mystery factors" because messing around with extractions is so much fun for me. I don't know exactly how I'll extract the ten different Rocky Patels that are winging their way to my mailbox, but I'll have a good time doing it.
Did I read you post correctly, that you've gone through two gallons of PG and VG in the past month? Wowie Zowie. You must be making enough juice for an army. LOL.
Yes, I've read numerous posts on the various extraction threads that hold---for a bunch of different reasons---that heat in excess of 150° is deleterious to the extract. The reason you wrote in your post---that higher temps cook off the flavor molecules in steam release---is another one I'll add to the pile.
I feel, however, that the "hard science" of extractions is somewhat akin to "molecular cuisine" relative to traditional gastronomy, or to the statistical approach to managing a baseball team versus the traditional assumptions of old-school baseball. Interesting, but not gospel. Everyone decides for him/herself if rules apply, and, if so, which ones to follow. I take everything I read---on ECF and elsewhere---with a grain of salt, including what I write. I cherry-pick what pleases me and ignore what doesn't.
No disrespect intended, my friend.
For instance, it makes sense to me to use airtight sealed lids, so I always have and will no doubt continue. It's different with temperatures and steep durations for my warm water baths, however. I like experimenting with different temps (from 120° to 170°) and varying durations from one extraction batch to another just to see what I'll get. I don't regard my results as proof of anything, since a myriad of uncontrolled variables affect the outcomes. Although I do use some general guidelines and preferred routines, this is my hobby, and I enjoy playing around with it.
I was surprised and shocked that my first batch of cigar extracts turned out beautifully. I feared that I had ruined them by overcooking (three days in the water bath, with temps that varied from tepid to 170°, meaning room temp to steamy water). And yet, those four extracts absolutely knocked my socks off. My second batch of cigars, macerated longer (five days) at a lower temperature (rigorously controlled 130° with an oven thermometer for the whole five days) yielded extracts that are darned good, but not as spectacular as the first bunch. We can speculate about why, but I'm dubious that any reasons we might come up with would be infallibly correct. Happily, the new batch is so clean that I compensated by simply upping the percentage of extract in the mix (from 22% to 28%), and that's working nicely to provide the extra flavor boost I wanted.
I'm comfortable with the "mystery factors" because messing around with extractions is so much fun for me. I don't know exactly how I'll extract the ten different Rocky Patels that are winging their way to my mailbox, but I'll have a good time doing it.
Did I read you post correctly, that you've gone through two gallons of PG and VG in the past month? Wowie Zowie. You must be making enough juice for an army. LOL.
No offense taken Bill. You do it your way and that's the way we all do it. I don't pretend that my way is gospel, it's just what has worked for me so far. Of course my rules are subject to change as it will always be a work in progress.
Yep, all those little bottles add up when I'm experimenting. Also, I was a bit generous in sending out my wares this past month. Postal charges were a bit much also.
What brand and model of coffee press do you use? I've been looking at them but I still don't know enough to make an informed purchase. I procrastinated over a vacuum filter for so long that I decided against one. Same with distilling equipment. Things are working okay without them so I won't fix what ain't broke.
I decanted a Java today. Chocolate, leather campfire. Smells really good. Kills me having to wait another month while the juice steeps. I know if I taste it now there will be little to no flavor. I've been disappointed before, not knowing to let time take care of things. Patience I tell myself.
The h*ll with that! I want it now!!
Yep, all those little bottles add up when I'm experimenting. Also, I was a bit generous in sending out my wares this past month. Postal charges were a bit much also.
What brand and model of coffee press do you use? I've been looking at them but I still don't know enough to make an informed purchase. I procrastinated over a vacuum filter for so long that I decided against one. Same with distilling equipment. Things are working okay without them so I won't fix what ain't broke.
I decanted a Java today. Chocolate, leather campfire. Smells really good. Kills me having to wait another month while the juice steeps. I know if I taste it now there will be little to no flavor. I've been disappointed before, not knowing to let time take care of things. Patience I tell myself.
The h*ll with that! I want it now!!
I marvel at your patience. I have patience for some things, but extractions aren't one of them.
I have two French Press pots. One is a 12-cup Melior from France that I bought new in 1978 and have been carefully guarding ever since (the glass carafes in those are delicate borosilicate and easily broken). That cost me about $40 back then. Somewhere in the past decade, I picked up a small (12 oz., 3-cup) Bodum French Press for a buck at a thrift shop. That's the one I use for filtering macerations, because it's the perfect size and let's me "force press" the tobacco solids to release the liquid that's been absorbed. It has a fine wire mesh filter, but the plunger assembly allows the addition of the polyester felt 5-micron filters I use now, creating what amounts to a single-pass dual-stage filter. I've done two batches since getting the poly felt, and I love it! It's quick, easy, not messy, and clean-up after filtering is a snap---just rinse under hot running water. (I clean the Press and the felt filter after each maceration.)
The pics show the Presses and two polyester felt 5-micron filter disks, one used, one new. The filter pads turn tan-colored permanently after filtering one extraction, but they're reusable and clean easily under running water.
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