Cold maceration of tobacco

[Heabob]

I have noticed that all of my darker colored flavors/juice tend to gunk up more.
Probably the food coloring in some of my "non-tobacco" vapes.

Tobaccos all have "some" sugar content, some more, some less.
Sugars will contribute to coil gunking, but not sure if the sugar gets extracted also, (I'm thinking it does).
And the other "unknown things" being extracted probably add a "gunk factor" too.

Started my first NET on Monday, PG based, cold method (so far), but I added a capfull of Vodka just because.
Now the long wait begins...

 

[Bunnykiller]

I have noticed that all of my darker colored flavors/juice tend to gunk up more.
Probably the food coloring in some of my "non-tobacco" vapes.

Tobaccos all have "some" sugar content, some more, some less.
Sugars will contribute to coil gunking, but not sure if the sugar gets extracted also, (I'm thinking it does).
And the other "unknown things" being extracted probably add a "gunk factor" too.

Started my first NET on Monday, PG based, cold method (so far), but I added a capfull of Vodka just because.
Now the long wait begins...

just did a test after reading the above... took 2 teaspoons of standard white sugar and dissolved it into 30ml of VG at 120F with no problem...... so I would believe sugars are soluable (sp?) in VG.... will someone be willing to sacrifice some PG on a similar test???

will test sugar in PGA in a moment BRB...

back... sugar in PGA is a mainly no go.... PGA took on a slight foggy color ( as in sugar water freshly mixed) but after pouring off the PGA I retrieved a little less than what I had originally put in sugar wise....
and considering PGA ( Everclear) is about 5% water would make sense for the minimal sugar volume loss... should have weighed it but being it was wet from the PGA would add error to the weight measures...

so in retrospect... VG is a sugar solvent, PGA a minimal sugar solvent....

 

[Heabob]

Thanks for the experiments Bunnykiller.

This may have something to do with the end colors of various extraction methods, although some of that is oils + other stuff.

May also explain why PG/PGA extractions seem to be a bit less "gunky" than VG.

Can't try any PG in sugar, as being Diabetic, I don't even have any in the house.

Monitor Sugar is just down the street from where I work, and often smells like a pig farm (or worse)

Sugar Beets: Slicing, crushing, lime, hot water spray, more heating, chlorine (to make it white), & probably some other things I missed.

 

[Bunnykiller]

Ive been reducing the PGA extract made from the tobacco leftovers of previous batches. Started out looking like a double strength tea as far as color and clarity ( initial volume of reduction approx 9 oz, its down to about 2.5 oz at the moment) present color at 2.5 oz is as dark as a strong cup of coffie and chickory with nothing added. The odd part about the reduction is that it has slowed down quite a bit as the liquid becomes darker. Oils are forming on the surface of the reduction and possibly ......ing the evaporation a bit. Viscosity is still water thin when swirled but has a tendancy to "coat" the sides of the container a bit more than it did at the start of the reduction process.
The aroma is fantastic at this point, the fumes from the Everclear are not as strong. There is a rich nutty prominence at first wiff, tobacco is going to be very potent flavor with this batch, not picking up any of the cocoas, chocolates that were part of the original flavors from the first sessions of this mixed blend.

It can be safely assumed that a second run on the tobacco is possible and does result in an extract that can be used to create more juice...

I still plan on refridgerating it to see if the oils will condense and filter out better than before... Im looking at at least another 3-4 hours before it will be ready for that test... lets hope it works out well... we maybe on to something here!!

 

[Bunnykiller]

Just filtered the cooled reduction and the cooling coagulated quite a bit of oil and sludge from the extract... never have seen this much "crud" show up previously....



this is what was in the bottom of the cup after pouring off the extraction into the filter... didnt want this in the filter.


Im recooling the filtered reduction overnite to see if anymore stuff settles out, will refilter in the morning.

 

[johni]

Dang killer, that looks pretty rough. I think the original extraction partially breaks down (decomposes?) the tobacco. Stands to reason that a secondary extraction is probably going to contain more particulates. It almost seems a waste to toss the tobacco after the original soak but I think I'm going to keep doing it.

 

[billherbst]

Dang killer, that looks pretty rough. I think the original extraction partially breaks down (decomposes?) the tobacco. Stands to reason that a secondary extraction is probably going to contain more particulates. It almost seems a waste to toss the tobacco after the original soak but I think I'm going to keep doing it.

Yes, John, the last thing I want to do is start saving already-macerated tobacco. More stuff to organize---more bottles, more labeling, more space consumed in drawers and cabinets. Shoot, I've already got a huge drawer filled with 2oz and 4oz glass dropper-top bottles, all containing finished extracts---41 of them, to be precise---and another smaller drawer filled with new pipe tobaccos and cigars waiting to be extracted. What are the odds that I'd want to start a collection of jars partially filled with used tobacco that looks like a cross between seaweed and sewage sludge? Slim and none. Actually, just none.

 

[johni]

I agree Bill. Good tobaccos are cheap enough. I was going to give you credit for the tobacco degradation observation but didn't want to drag you in if it started a fuss.

 

[regal55]

My second batch of Home and Hearth Berry Nice didn't turn out so well, dry and burn flavor. After checking everything I found that when I scaled up the recipe and I didn't increase the PG ! Wow what I difference that makes. No more head calculations for me when it comes to ejuice.

This is a fantastic blend btw. It doesn't have a strong berry flavor like the name suggests, instead its a very nice cavendish. I recommend it highly.

 

[Bunnykiller]

Dang killer, that looks pretty rough. I think the original extraction partially breaks down (decomposes?) the tobacco. Stands to reason that a secondary extraction is probably going to contain more particulates. It almost seems a waste to toss the tobacco after the original soak but I think I'm going to keep doing it.

yup its a bit nasty looking but one has to consider that there was 20sum odd oz of tobacco used and 12 oz of Everclear to soak it with. During the steep session at 120F for about 36 hrs drove off a couple of oz of PGA and I didnt squeeze out the tobacco this time so there was about 3 oz lost resulting in about 9 oz of extract to reduce down to approx 2-2.5 oz. I suppose when it becomes that concentrated things will get funky. But on a good note, the reduced extract is now clean, no oils forming on the sides of the container and quite potent as far as flavor goes. Wont take much to make the VG have flavor. I plan on mixing up a small batch of flavored VG in a few minutes and put it to the dripper test.... hope it vapes as well as it smells...

 

[Bunnykiller]

just got finished sampling the extract... took 9ml VG, 1 ml extract and mixed well. Rewicked the IgoW and tested... Im suprised with the flavor... has a smooth toasted nuttyness to it Im thinking almonds? A mild cigar flavor steps in once the nut flavor settles out. Mouth feel is smooth, no bitterness, no grassyness, there is a bit of sweetness left on the lips... not too bad... I like it

BTW the tobaccos were a mix of various Cavendish Pipe blends...

 

[Bunnykiller]

Yes, John, the last thing I want to do is start saving already-macerated tobacco. More stuff to organize---more bottles, more labeling, more space consumed in drawers and cabinets. Shoot, I've already got a huge drawer filled with 2oz and 4oz glass dropper-top bottles, all containing finished extracts---41 of them, to be precise---and another smaller drawer filled with new pipe tobaccos and cigars waiting to be extracted. What are the odds that I'd want to start a collection of jars partially filled with used tobacco that looks like a cross between seaweed and sewage sludge? Slim and none. Actually, just none.

When doing the PGA soak/steep, the left over tobacco, if allowed to "air dry" becomes fluffy and somewhat dry. When I first got the blends, they were moist, "formable" ( pinch a wad and it held it shape), the tobacco after the PGA steep becomes drier, not "formable", it behaves more like cigarette tobacco as far as dryness....

 

[billherbst]

When doing the PGA soak/steep, the left over tobacco, if allowed to "air dry" becomes fluffy and somewhat dry. When I first got the blends, they were moist, "formable" ( pinch a wad and it held it shape), the tobacco after the PGA steep becomes drier, not "formable", it behaves more like cigarette tobacco as far as dryness....

Just to let you know, my post wasn't intended as criticism of your choice to re-use tobacco. For me, vaping is all about doing what pleases us. Air-drying macerated tobacco is not something I'm likely to do, but if it makes you happy, then more power to you.

 

[Ian444]

Glad you are doing this Bunny as it will be interesting to get an idea how efficient these first macerations are. Where I live "down under" tobacco is USD $27 an ounce and PGA is USD $3.50 an ounce. Although I don't need a more efficient process to continue doing macerations, something worthwhile might be learnt from your experiments.

 

[regal55]

Anyone have a favorite Cavendish? Currently mine is Newmister, but I wonder if there is a connoisseur brand out there ?

 

[Bunnykiller]

Just to let you know, my post wasn't intended as criticism of your choice to re-use tobacco. For me, vaping is all about doing what pleases us. Air-drying macerated tobacco is not something I'm likely to do, but if it makes you happy, then more power to you.

No harm.. just experimenting and learning.... Im plauged with the "What If" mind set... always wondering about things
So... what weve seen here is a second batch can be done but it extracts more oils and "stuff" ( plant material?) Flavor is milder but still tasty.
Next test... use 2X more PGA to see if the original theory of solvent saturation still applies.... will we get more from the tobacco due to more solvent volume??? More to come next week....

 

[Bunnykiller]

Glad you are doing this Bunny as it will be interesting to get an idea how efficient these first macerations are. Where I live "down under" tobacco is USD $27 an ounce and PGA is USD $3.50 an ounce. Although I don't need a more efficient process to continue doing macerations, something worthwhile might be learnt from your experiments.

OUCH!!! 27$ an oz?? and PGA is 3.50$ an oz?..... some one is getting very rich down there....
Cavendish pipe goes for 2.25-4.00$ an oz retail and PGA is 9$ for 750ml

 

[billherbst]

PGA is 9$ for 750ml

I live in a very small town with only one liquor store. I paid $15.95 for a 750ml bottle of 190-proof Everclear. Nine bucks sounds great!

 

[Heabob]

I stuffed 22gr (by weight) into a freezer jam canning jar, not the short one but next size up.
Cut up whole leaf organic VFC.
Was trying to get 1 oz (28gr) to fit.
Didn't seem to be able to get much PG into the jar, (certainly not 120ml).
Are you guys using the 1 oz by volume, or weighing it?
Seem to have way more tobacco than liquid in the jar.

 

[regal55]

Latest and unique NET. Captain Black Cavendish 4 days at 110F filtered then a small amount of tangerine flavoring. Unusual but I really like it.