Cold maceration of tobacco

[Ian444]

Maurice, maybe try halving the flavor, 25% is a lot, and too much is not a good idea. I usually mix at 11% to 14%. Another idea is to let that mix steep for a couple of months. The grassiness might fade, or not, who knows. But whatever flavor is in there won't develop for a few weeks or a month at least, sometimes 2 months. If you want to stick with total DIY, a direction might be to research casings and/or curing methods. I find fire-curing especially fascinating but probably not practical for most city folks for DIY. People burn wood around here at night (its winter) and sometimes the smoke distinctly reminds me of pipe tobacco, whereas previous to extracting pipe tobacco, I would just think someone has a nice fire going.

Bunny, I nearly always use PG, but can't help much with your questions due to lacking experience. Color is mid range to extremely dark, medium gunking. If you use a rda with cotton wick the gunk is a 3 minute fix (dry burn and rewick). I did one hot VG (Kurts method - VG tobacco essence thread) and it came out no different to a standard cold or hot PG extract, no significant differences I could detect. Regarding types of tobacco, I prefer the less complex ones. The blends with a bit of everything in them (Virginia, Cavendish, Oriental, Latakia, Perique) seem to have a less defined character, but that could be just me, I'm not a former pipe smoker and probably can't recognize the individual components. Mostly I'm liking various Virginia flakes the most, but again, that could be just my taste buds.

 

[billherbst]

Since there seems to be several people here doing PG extracting, what is the extracts characteristics after filtering? Color, transparent/opaque? Ability to gunk up a coil, quick/slow? Flavor density, mild/heavy? Which type of tobacco lends to being the better at flavor reproduction?

I do like the VG for flavor, but the color density is extremely dark and trashes out a coil too fast...

For the questions you posed, the differences between all-PG and all-VG macerated extractions are minimal. Color might be slightly darker for PG than VG from identical macerations, and PG will win on flavor density by a smidgeon, but coil-crusting and wick-gunking are likely to be identical. Extracts made using all or some VG are usually a bit sweeter than all-PG extracts because of the inherent sweetness of VG.

Pipe tobaccos generally provide the most flavor, regardless of solvent, but other qualities of the tobacco used also impact flavor density---freshness/moistness of the tobacco and the particular tobaccos used in the blend being the two most obvious other factors.

Better filtering is generally the remedy for premature coil crusting, but all macerated extracts, no matter how finely filtered, will eventually kill coils and wicks. If you truly loathe changing coils/wicks, then macerated NETs are probably not for you. Steam-distilled natural tobacco extractions produce significantly cleaner-performing extracts and juices, such as all of Heather'sHeavenlyVapes retail natural tobacco blend juices and some of Ahlusion's lines of retail NETs. HHV buys steam-distilled extract from an external source, while Ahlusion makes their own extracts in-house. The majority of vendors who sell retail NETs, however, use macerated extracts to flavor their juices, whether made in-house or outsourced. Consult the Vendor List that is kept updated in the first post of the Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux thread to learn who sells what kind of retail NETs:

Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux

 

[billherbst]

Maurice, maybe try halving the flavor, 25% is a lot, and too much is not a good idea. I usually mix at 11% to 14%. Another idea is to let that mix steep for a couple of months. The grassiness might fade, or not, who knows. But whatever flavor is in there won't develop for a few weeks or a month at least, sometimes 2 months. If you want to stick with total DIY, a direction might be to research casings and/or curing methods.

Maurice,

Ian's offering some good advice. Won't hurt anything to give your home-grown tobacco extract a good steep---at least a month and probably two---to see if it comes around. With uncured tobacco, I doubt that the flavor will change for the better, but maybe I'm wrong.

Steeping has proven itself to be a definite and major factor in the flavor profile of my 40 extracts. I've preferred some of them fresh, while others have benefited from steeping, but aging always seems to change the flavor profile, from a little to a lot and for better or worse, depending on the particular extract.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

I think my greatest desire here is to find a method that alienates big tobacco, anything that puts a bit of coin in their pockets is distasteful to me for my own reasons.

The flavor I'm getting is similar to the tobacco note in TFA's black honey tobacco flavor, but hugely amplified. While I don't personally find it (the extract) enjoyable as far as flavor goes I do think it might have some redeeming qualities at a far lower percentage than the 25% inclusion rate I went with.

As far as flavor density, it is spectacular, and as I may not have mentioned, super natural in representing what it is. Zero chemicalness which I think is very cool.

I'm trying to be as objective as I can here. If you wanted to make a tobacco peanut butter vape this would rock as a base at maybe 15-20% NET and just enough peanut butter flavoring to fill in the voids where exact peanut flavor is missing.

Maurice

 

[Bunnykiller]

Last night I put together two small cold macerations using 85% PG and 15% PGA as solvent. I plan on soaking for one week. I don't think I will need to reduce the PGA content, so I'm hoping to just filter it once and be good to go. The PGA pulls color from the tobacco in about 5 minutes, it makes me wonder what the color actually consists of.

what PGA are you using??? there is a tad bit of water in PGA and that seems to draw out the color quick....

 

[Ian444]

Polmos Spirytus Rektyfikowany 95% alc/vol. Its $62 for 500ml, the only PGA I can find in Australia. That's another reason I am experimenting to find out how little PGA is required for fast cold extraction The first reason being, if I can get the PGA % low enough I won't need to reduce the PGA content with heat, and only filter once. Give me around 5 weeks and I'll let you know how it goes.

The tobaccos are Samuel Gawith St James Flake (Va/Per) and Balkan Flake (Va/Lat).

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Maurice,

Ian's offering some good advice. Won't hurt anything to give your home-grown tobacco extract a good steep---at least a month and probably two---to see if it comes around. With uncured tobacco, I doubt that the flavor will change for the better, but maybe I'm wrong.

Steeping has proven itself to be a definite and major factor in the flavor profile of my 40 extracts. I've preferred some of them fresh, while others have benefited from steeping, but aging always seems to change the flavor profile, from a little to a lot and for better or worse, depending on the particular extract.

Trying 1% increments up to 20% as soon as I get a boat load of 3ml tester bottles in. From there I'll do a 1% sweep above and below the percentage I find best using 20 3ml tester bottles which will give me a 0.1% resolution for the percentage point I need to use.

For poops and giggles I threw together a 15ml bottle at 1% my NET, 1% my NECoffee, 1% Vanilla Bean Ice Cream TFA, 1% Vanilla Custard, kind of a Wakondaish inspired mixture, 100% PG at 6mg/ml.

Maurice

EDIT: first vape of the 1% juice seems promising in that the NET is still noticeable, mainly the nutty note has remained but the grassy note is no longer there, the final percentage may well be in the low single digits for my tastes. It's very subtle, who knows.

EDIT 2: a quick mix of 1% at 1/3 with the 25% at 2/3 for a total inclusion of 9% brings back the grassy note. I will do my 20 3ml testers in 0.25% increments to 5% rather than anything higher.

 

[MikeNice81]

I have a quick noob question. I have my extracts sitting in the top of my closet. Should I cover them to further limit exposure to light?

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

I have a quick noob question. I have my extracts sitting in the top of my closet. Should I cover them to further limit exposure to light?

Light is the enemy, LOL, it wont hurt to keep them in a cool and dark location, and/or colored bottles.

Maurice

 

[Ian444]

Last night I put together two small cold macerations using 85% PG and 15% PGA as solvent. I plan on soaking for one week. I don't think I will need to reduce the PGA content, so I'm hoping to just filter it once and be good to go. The PGA pulls color from the tobacco in about 5 minutes, it makes me wonder what the color actually consists of.

I filtered these last night, straight up the results are impressive, compared to quite a few other methods I've tried. "Impressive" meaning good flavour for minimal effort and especially the maceration time. Plenty of flavour mixed at 1:7 (12 to 13%). I'll see how it goes long term. The tobaccos are Samuel Gawith St James Flake and Balkan Flake.

 

[PaulBHC]

End of week two on my VG extraction of American Spirit. Pulled 2ml and put in an AGA-T2. Very good at this point. I could probably use it as is but will wait another week.

I was worried about how VG would be as a solvent but seems just fine. Nice color and good flavor.

 

[boomerdude]

Which kind of American Spirit was it? I've done three, the Bold, Perique and Organic. All of them were pretty good.

 

[PaulBHC]

The organic. I did the PG extraction a while ago and decided to try a VG version. I'm finding that I do better with less PG and will try all VG when I get some nic in VG.

 

[boomerdude]

I used 100% PG. I used 50/50 on one of the extracts I did yesterday. I'll see how it does in four weeks or so.

 

[Str8vision]

Need suggestions. I have a 74 year old friend who has smoked Camels and Luck Strikes for over 50 years, preferring non-filtered. He would like to give vaping a try but wants nothing to do with pipe or cigar flavors which is, of course, all I like and have on hand. What tobacco(s) would you recommend I use to make a strong cigarette flavored juice from?

 

[PaulBHC]

Easiest thing to do would be whatever the local store has, Bugler or Tops.

I wish I would have tried unflavored when I first started though. High nic and pg would give a good throat, nose and lung hit. High vg gives more cloud that feels more like smoke to me.

 

[Str8vision]

Easiest thing to do would be whatever the local store has, Bugler or Tops.

I wish I would have tried unflavored when I first started though. High nic and pg would give a good throat, nose and lung hit. High vg gives more cloud that feels more like smoke to me.

Thanks for the recommendations.

Flavor is what originally lured me into vaping and inadvertently caused me to stop smoking, had no thought or intention of quitting, just did. I do vape unflavored when testing a new batch of nic but would never have started vaping If that was all I had sampled back then. I really like the flavor pipe tobacco blends produce even better than when I burned them.

 

[PaulBHC]

I do like the American Spirit organic as a vape. Very cig like aftertaste. Not sure I would compare it to a hard core cig like his. Keep in mind that vaping is like work as it is and you will be adding the effects of gunking and crusting. Not sure a new vaper wants to deal with that right off the bat.

 

[Ian444]

I would think you might get away with a straight virginia pipe tobacco for your friend, its not too far removed from cigarette tobacco, like Full Virginia Flake or some other Va flake you may have on hand? Although your friend says he wants nothing to do with pipe tobaccos, you might find he likes these ones, unless you've already tried?

 

[Str8vision]

I do like the American Spirit organic as a vape. Very cig like aftertaste. Not sure I would compare it to a hard core cig like his. Keep in mind that vaping is like work as it is and you will be adding the effects of gunking and crusting. Not sure a new vaper wants to deal with that right off the bat.

Don't think anything but a good straight tobacco would suit him. He is a longtime neighbor (20+ years), who lives across the road from me. I would have to help him along the way if he decide to take it up but I believe he would catch on quickly as he's a very astute individual with a mechanical aptitude that is impressive yet disturbing considering he is a retired academic.