Colorado man sues after explosion

[four2109]

I hate to admit that watertight aspect of your argument, but there it is. McDonalds went to court after settling many of the same type for pragmatic reasons. At last, they had the case that no thinking individual could deny—or so they thought.

Not.

My butane lighter has a label that warns me that the "contents are flammable". (wtf? Like I would buy it if they weren't!)

 

[John D in CT]

Nearly pointless comment. Flashlights are commonly carried on one's person, often in a front pocket, close to the family jewels. I would be very surprised if flashlight battery malfunctions have not caused serious injury to people on many occasions, yet the industry thrives. Snark fail.

***

Edited to distance myself from my own words, if such a thing is possible. I hereby apologize to kwalka for straying from one of my main goals in interpersonal relations, which is to refrain from judgment, including not just the most glaring of insults, but also to refrain from using any negative adjectives to describe the person, or anything said or done by the person, that I allowed myself to feel offended by. I also apologize to the participants in this excellent thread.

Re-reading this post, it would have been SO much better without the italicized text [now bolded].

Cool, you can quote yourself. I'm going to be doing that more often, since I say so many great things! LOL

I just wanted to call attention to my revised post #131, and to say how disappointed I am in myself for being sooooo damnnn touchy! Jeez louise! I was embarrassed to re-read that.

I also wanted to say that classwife was spot-on, and I'm kicking myself for not apologizing when I first realized it was warranted, and not after she had posted the very apt things that she did.

In addition to my mistreatment of a fellow member, we've been pretty tough on this poor guy who was injured. There really is a heck of a lot to know about batteries, let's face it. I could go into all the complexities, but we know what they are. The guy made a mistake, and got the wrong kind. Has that ever happened to anyone here? If it hasn't, then my hat's off to you, it truly is. I just hope he's going to be OK, and that something positive can come out of this.

Now something that might contribute more directly to the topic: how about manufacturers at least do something extremely simple, and laser-etch or somehow otherwise permanently on the tube EXACTLY what type of battery they recommend - no, insist - be used in it. That would be bound to reduce accidents, and reduce their liability if one still does occur. It seems to me that many, and maybe even the majority, of these incidents involves using either the wrong type of battery, or unprotected batteries that are otherwise the "correct" type. Maybe this would be a good addition to the EMSS?

OK, that's it. Now you can all just bite me. LOL

 

[IVapus]

Now something that might contribute more directly to the topic: how about manufactureres at least do something extremely simple, and laser-etch or somehow otherwise permanently on the tube EXACTLY what type of battery they recommend - no, insist - be used in it. That would be bound to reduce accidents, and limit their liability if one still does occur. It seems to me that many, and maybe even the majority, of these incidents involves using either the wrong type of battery, or unprotected batteries that are otherwise the "correct" type.

That's actually a very good suggestion, and couldn't be too terribly expensive I wouldn't think.

 

[four2109]

That is a good idea. But I don't think they have ever discouraged unprotected batteries. They have just continued to look the other way. Most of their marketing is done here, for free... by random internet strangers that may or may not know what they are talking about.

 

[Dj Xy]

I feel sorry for the guy and his family, but I don't see this case going far, since the only enercell batteries that will fit in a v3.1 that rs carries are 3v cr123 CAMERA batteries, they are regular lithium, non-protected and are not even rechargeable!!!!

 

[bnrkwest]

I love that idea of etching the batt type on the model used. Also a warning sticker- ONLY use XXX 0000 batteries in this PV. Something else I think mod makers should do is only sell the models with the exact batts they need. Everyone needs batteries any way, just make sure they all come with 2 recommended. Maybe also they should come with the correct charger. I have heard of people using the wrong charger and batts exploding while being charged. Somehow the word has to get out and vendors need to COA with strict guidelines and warning labels.
I also hope this guy is ok, hey everyone makes mistakes and he may just have not known the difference between batteries. bnrk

 

[John D in CT]

But I don't think they have ever discouraged unprotected batteries.

I think some of them might, since I do see a lot of kits come with them as standard equipment. Those who don't should seriously start thinking about it. This industry is under a microscope right now, and I think they'd be foolish to sacrifice safety in order to make their kits a few bucks cheaper. Penny wise, pound foolish it seems to me.

I feel sorry for the guy and his family, but I don't see this case going far, since the only enercell batteries that will fit in a v3.1 that rs carries are 3v cr123 CAMERA batteries, they are regular lithium, non-protected and are not even rechargeable!!!!

Again, most of us know the difference now, but a month ago I don't think I even knew there were protected and unprotected batteries, and all the different chemistries are very confusing to a lot of people, and I'm still no expert myself. There's a lot to know.

Another interesting thing: From what I can see, the Prodigy V 3.1 takes one 3.7V 17670 battery, and CR123's are "17335" in size. Exactly the same diameter, and exactly half as long, so they fit like a glove.

So it seems he was powering his PV with 6 volts, non-rechargeable Li batteries. I'd like to know the exact physics involved in the explosion.

 

[firhill]

Hope the guy recovers.

Also hope the guy loses his shirt when he's finished paying his lawyer bill.

 

[Petrodus]

For completeness, here's the actual lawsuit (PDF) CLICK HERE

 

[jkmtwo]

The whole idea of etching something in the tube that demands the type of battery would never ever work, accidents will always happen when you have these types of mods, as long as somebody wants to save a few bucks and get cheaper batteries, you will not prevent this. Seriously, there is a reason why you have to show I.d. to buy spraypaint, or why you have to have a warning label on drain. The only thing the etching would do is be equivalent to a wet floor sign.

 

[firhill]

That is a good idea. But I don't think they have ever discouraged unprotected batteries. They have just continued to look the other way. Most of their marketing is done here, for free... by random internet strangers that may or may not know what they are talking about.

You thought wrong. They (and many other sellers) have and still do discourage it.

 

[meeems]

I just love my little "hairball', she's such a smart little kitty'.

Meems

Didn't Puresmoker use to sell Cr123 size cells but removed them when the stacked battery issue bloomed?

Yes they used to sell a 6V kit with Tenergy cells.

They advertise the Protegy as a 3.7 volt device now. How many bought earlier models just to stack?

Me...I have both runs of the Prodigy.

If someone you know has an earlier model using Puresmoker stacked batteries (the ones they used to sell) for 6 volt vaping, how do you duplicate that?

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Duplicate in terms of what?

Buy the the improved V3.1. But where do you buy the batteries they used to sell for the earlier models?

Online...many vendors still carry Tenergy batteries but I no longer use them. I only use AW lifepo4's.

Did Puresmoker "RECALL" all the earlier models and CR123 cells, or just leave them out there? Is that not implying it's OK to stack?

No recall that I know of. No it's not implying it's ok to stack. It's left up to the user and to read their site for battery information in terms of what to use. IMO, puresmoker left it up to the user as to which voltage they preferred.

 

[John D in CT]

The whole idea of etching something in the tube that demands the type of battery would never ever work, accidents will always happen when you have these types of mods, as long as somebody wants to save a few bucks and get cheaper batteries, you will not prevent this. Seriously, there is a reason why you have to show I.d. to buy spraypaint, or why you have to have a warning label on drain. The only thing the etching would do is be equivalent to a wet floor sign.

I don't understand a lot of this. How would it never work? Many products have similar markings.

And a wet floor sign is an effective way of reducing liablity, since it serves as a warning, just like the etching/labeling would. Again, I do not really understand your reasoning.

 

[Roxxette]

it all will be good until someone gets "poison" and die by eliquid.....

 

[Foggy]

Allow the unit to be sold and let the users be the crash dummies .. ?? My point is, the PV is not subjected to even a UL certification .. and yes, I'm using my mod right now ..

That's why. That's why we have things like UL listings. Testing by a 3rd party is a bit more reliable than cheerleading by an online forum.

Just throwing this out there for vendors looking into the possibility of getting things certified -- as an alternative to UL, there's also ETL (aka Intertek). I'm not affiliated with them in any, BTW, I just know a bit about symbols ;-)

Electrical & Electronic

Getting stuff tested/listed can be pricey.

For any suppliers out there, I definitely recommend looking into ETL.

I have to disagree. I think that the e-Cig industry is already officially "Too Big To Fail", and that any governmental agency will, despite the paucity of brainpower inside the Washington Beltway, will conclude that accidents will occur when any product is used by millions of people.

I'm afraid I have to disagree. Online poker was a billion dollar industry in the US prior to lawsuits by the US government on April 15, 2011. When the government gets you in their sites, we're all peons. Very, very few industries are too big too fail.

Recommendations to suppliers:

1. Liability Insurance: U.S. suppliers should all have liability insurance, period. If you're buying mods from somewhere, make sure they have insurance and that your company is covered.

2. Terms of Sale: Suppliers need to add pop up whenever someone purchases a mod that warns them about recommended batteries. This should require the purchaser to certify that they have read and understood these terms before they can proceed with the purchase.

These are very basic and can provide some protection. IANAL Seek advice of counsel.

 

[John D in CT]

I just don't see vaping going away. Online gambling obviously can't go underground, but this can, if it has to. Perhaps substitute "you will always be able to vape, one way or another" for "The industry is Too Big To Fail".

I think a "War on Vaping" would be about as successful as the "War on Drugs", and Prohibition.

But I'll stick by my prediction that the industry is not going to be shut down by the federal government (or "regulated" to the point of same).

 

[Rickajho]

So......why is he not suing Radio Shack?

The logical reason would be:

The guy just walked up to the Wall-O-Batteries, picked out what he wanted himself with no assistance or input provided by any Radio Shack employee whatsoever, slapped them on the counter and paid for them. I'm sure if a Radio Shack employee offered any input regarding the purchase decision this guys Attorneys would be all over that and suing Radio Shack as well.

 

[jkmtwo]

I don't understand a lot of this. How would it never work? Many products have similar markings.

And a wet floor sign is an effective way of reducing liablity, since it serves as a warning, just like the etching/labeling would. Again, I do not really understand your reasoning.

It was put out there that an etching stressing battery requirements or whatever would reduce the occurances of this happening, but I agree, its OK from a liability standpoint, but all one has to do is go to your local grocery store and look at the wet floor signs and with in a few minutes you will see some one who comes by and pays no attention to the sign. If you have ever owned a business you would also know that the liability protection with something like this is limited at best.

Cigarette industry, perfect example, how many of us bought a pack of cigs with a warning label on it? Every single pack I ever bought had one. Not only that, how many people bought a pack of cigs with a warning label that said these cause lung cancer on it, then how many got cancer, and sued the cigarette companies, and won?

The ultimate in liability protection doesn't come from a sign or a warning label, but from reducing risk. That is what got the cig companies in the end, no matter what they did, they produced a product that causes harm, period.

The only way to prevent some cheap skate from using stacked unprotected batteries in one of their mods is to not produce them in the first place, or make the mod fit one specific battery made by a specific manufacturer, or have an inline battery.

 

[jkmtwo]

The logical reason would be:

The guy just walked up to the Wall-O-Batteries, picked out what he wanted himself with no assistance or input provided by any Radio Shack employee whatsoever, slapped them on the counter and paid for them. I'm sure if a Radio Shack employee offered any input regarding the purchase decision this guys Attorneys would be all over that and suing Radio Shack as well.

Kinda like what h did with Puresmoker? Of all of the websites that he could have bought from he picked Puresmoker, picked the Prodigy, and so on. It seems to me, if PS made an unsafe device, RS sold the guy equally unsafe batteries.

The reason is, if you really want to know, if they go after Rs, they have a team of lawyers that will beat this guys crappy case into the ground and then take his lawyers breifcase and beat him in to a bloody pulp with it.

Its much much easier to go after Puresmoker, they are the little guy in this.

 

[jkmtwo]

Let me clarify something in my lat post.

One big difference is that PS made the device, and RS didn't make the batteries, they merely sold them.

Still, they were produced specifically for RS by a bigger battery manufacturer.

So there are 3 people you can sue, the battery manufacturer, Radio Shack, or Puresmoker, one of these doesn't have a team of lawyers, Puresmoker is the low hanging fruit here.