contingency plans for an FDA or state ban

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jerrydon10

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And remember that the FDA has already LOST the first court case when Judge Leon ruled that PVs are NOT drug delivery devices and ordered that the FDA release the shipments they had confiscated from njoy and Smoking Everywhere.

The FDA limped away from that months long case like a puppy with it's tail between it's legs. They are not likely to try that again anytime soon. :)

Now States? They might try, but I think as NJ has recently done, they will just make them illegal to minors and in public gathering places.
 
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Elapid

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The medical community has started turning pro E-cig to get off the chemicals and tar from cigarettes. The FDA is between a rock and a hard place between Big tobacco and vapers. If the E-cig is ruled a drug delivery device, the cigarette would be soon to follow. I can only imagine the class action suit against whoever would be responsible for forcing us to use tobacco if a ban occurs. There are some serious issues involved with forcing a ban on something deemed to be safer than cigarettes. I don't think anybody is ready to take on the legal issues that would develop from those actions.
 

Hoosier

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Folks, Jerrydon10 is great guy. The first court case has been won, but is being appealed that still continues to this day and it is documented nearly daily on this forum in another thread.

Also the California legislature passed a bill to ban the sale of PV's to all Californians, but the govern-a-tor vetoed it. Maryland, Illinois, and New York legislatures are attempting the same thing by introducing bills.

Sit back and don't worry about it if you wish, that is your right.

Edited to remove my misinformation!
 
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wv2win

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I'm wondering what folks are thinking for contingency plans if a ban comes through. How much notice would we have? What borders would be permeable and which ones blocked?

I won't be surprised if California gets moving on some ban action. I believe the attorney general (Jerry Brown who is running for governor) is already grandstanding against e-cigs.

Are many folks stockpiling?

The reason i ask, today i tried analoigs and they seemed really foul. Coming in to this i figured i could always go back to smoking, now i'm worried.

Many fearing a national ban stocked up with 2 years worth of attys and juice as well as several complete PV's.
 

jerrydon10

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Folks, Jerrydon10 is spreading misinformation. No court case has been won or lost as it still continues to this day and it is documented nearly daily on this forum in another thread.

Also the California legislature passed a bill to ban the sale of PV's to all Californians, but the govern-a-tor vetoed it. Maryland, Illinois, and New York legislatures are attempting the same thing by introducing bills.

Sit back and don't worry about it if you wish, that is your right. But please do not spread misinformation in the process of not worrying.

I'm sorry?? Do you want to read the court ruling?

Federal Judge Rules FDA Can't Ban Electronic Cigarettes - cbs3.com

You are the one spreading disinformation my friend. I was on here when SEs attorney posted that they won right here on ECF.

Please read up....;)
 

ljjkj

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I must be in the minority, however I am completely unconcerned. For years I've ordered prescription medications from India without ever so much as an open package. Certainly there will be some Chinese companies that will have their products turned away, as they are known e-cig distributors. However one must believe that unless a package is stamped E-cigarette in obnoxiously large letters, these parcels will get through. In customs, you will see some frightening things slip through and an inordinate amount of contraband items missed. In my e-cigarette's case, I welcome the inefficiency.

Jill
who's lived with many, many ban scares this year and has decided to calm down.
 

Mr_Phil

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I'm not stockpiling anything. I simply don't have the discretionary funds to stock more than what it takes to vape plus a prudent number of spares. Besides, making the nicotine juice is not an option in my house (got curious lil kids) for the foreseeable future.

Heck I am still stunned by the abject stupidity of the promoters of the ban. Hopefully Texas won't get caught up in the stupid attacks going on in some state and federal offices and agencies.
 

jerrydon10

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Well, to you guys that ARE worried I understand......But I hope you hang out on the modders forum occasionally. The only thing we at ECF cannot mass produce at this point is atties. There will always be someone around here to sell you juice. Bat mods are available where you can buy the bats at radio shack.

So, the only thing one needs to stock up on is your favorite atties.
 

Hoosier

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I'm sorry?? Do you want to read the court ruling?

Federal Judge Rules FDA Can't Ban Electronic Cigarettes - cbs3.com

You are the one spreading disinformation my friend. I was on here when SEs attorney posted that they won right here on ECF.

Please read up....;)

I did, did you click the link I supplied? The original case continues on in appeals. There is no FDA limping away, it is still fighting. Government agencies like these will come again and again in the form of appeals. They have limitless resources, your and my tax money, and all the reason in the world to keep trying as there is no down side to creating your own workload in the name of government service.

Now the way the case is going has good and bad parts,but mostly good, the latest opinion of the docket watcher today was, "Thirty-six days out from the last filing and this Administrative Stay is still in place as no rulings came down today. Again I think we are going to see Judge Leon's ruling upheld, otherwise this long wait in ruling can easily be deemed as prejudical to SE and NJOY. An Administrative Stay should not be hanging around this long as that period of time can drive companies like SE right out of business.

We saw this with Judge Leon and I think we are going to see the same thing again here with the Appeals Court."

Until the appeals are exhausted, the result is still in limbo. If things go well, the FDA will take this all the way to the supreme court, and if that court refuses to hear it, then we can celebrate and call it done. (At least till they come up with something else completely silly and try it yet again.)

At that point I will toast you and say you were completely correct and there was nothing to worry about, but until the appeals are exhausted, there is still a threat. But, until that point, I do not see how it can be called done.
 

jerrydon10

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I did, did you click the link I supplied? The original case continues on in appeals. There is no FDA limping away, it is still fighting. Government agencies like these will come again and again in the form of appeals. They have limitless resources, your and my tax money, and all the reason in the world to keep trying as there is no down side to creating your own workload in the name of government service.

Now the way the case is going has good and bad parts,but mostly good, the latest opinion of the docket watcher today was, "Thirty-six days out from the last filing and this Administrative Stay is still in place as no rulings came down today. Again I think we are going to see Judge Leon's ruling upheld, otherwise this long wait in ruling can easily be deemed as prejudical to SE and NJOY. An Administrative Stay should not be hanging around this long as that period of time can drive companies like SE right out of business.

We saw this with Judge Leon and I think we are going to see the same thing again here with the Appeals Court."

Until the appeals are exhausted, the result is still in limbo. If things go well, the FDA will take this all the way to the supreme court, and if that court refuses to hear it, then we can celebrate and call it done. (At least till they come up with something else completely silly and try it yet again.)

At that point I will toast you and say you were completely correct and there was nothing to worry about, but until the appeals are exhausted, there is still a threat. But, until that point, I do not see how it can be called done.

I understand that most cases at this level can and will be appealed. But what you said was that we did NOT win that court decision. You are simply wrong. we did win. Read the ruling.

Sure, they are going to appeal. But what you are missing is that case law--precedent--has been set by Judge Leon's ruling thus far and we can use that ruling in other court cases at this point in time.

You don't have to toast me at any juncture. Just get your facts straight. Because at this point, it is YOU spreading misinformation.

With me? :)
 

Hoosier

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Because at this point, it is YOU spreading misinformation.
...
With me? :)

Got ya' and with you. Yes, I hung up on the FDA limping away and not trying again, and thought that was your main point, and missed the point of winning the original case as your main point.
:D

I get things right sooner or later. I even edited the post on that to remove the misinformation, so now it only exists in the quote to your rebuttal.
 
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DC2

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I won't be surprised if California gets moving on some ban action. I believe the attorney general (Jerry Brown who is running for governor) is already grandstanding against e-cigs.
California already tried doing what Oregon did, and what New York, Maryland, and Illinois are currently doing, but the Governator vetoed the bill and saved the day!!
 

DC2

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We don't have to worry about a ban. China could care less if the U.S. bans anything. They will still ship them to us as they do now---marked as a toy music box on the custom form--or something just as misleading. Customs simply cannot possibly open every package.
They can make it awfully hard on us to get anything from overseas.
For instance, there is the PACT act that is currently making it's way towards becoming law.

And I can tell you now that they made it so hard for me to fund my online gambling accounts that I simply stopped gambling. None of my credits cards would work on gambling websites, and various online payment services stopped working too.

Just like Paypal no longer allows payments to electronic cigarette companies in the United States.

And remember that the FDA has already LOST the first court case when Judge Leon ruled that PVs are NOT drug delivery devices and ordered that the FDA release the shipments they had confiscated from Njoy and Smoking Everywhere.
Technically that is incorrect, as the case hasn't even really started yet.

The ruling to which you were refer was simply an injunction to stop the FDA from seizing shipments DURING THE COURSE OF THE CASE until a final decision is rendered. That injunction is currently under appeal by the FDA as we speak, and is the next ruling we are all waiting for.

What is correct is that the ruling issued by Judge Leon in the injunction is almost certainly a clear signal as to how he most likely will be ruling in the actual court case, and we do have hope for a victory, pending another appeal most likely.

The FDA limped away from that months long case like a puppy with it's tail between it's legs. They are not likely to try that again anytime soon.
This part is incorrect, as the FDA is still fighting tooth and nail.

Now States? They might try, but I think as NJ has recently done, they will just make them illegal to minors and in public gathering places.
Might want to check the Campaigning subforum, as Maryland, New York, and now Illinois are currently in the process of making it illegal to sell electronic cigarettes.

I'm not worried.
What worries me is not enough people being worried enough to do something.
 
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Mr_Phil

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Originally Posted by DC2
What worries me is not enough people being worried enough to do something.
This is my concern also ! Whatever happens, I don't think we'll be left alone to vape in peace.

This is an important discussion that needs to be had more often on this forum.
Demographics at work.

Non-smokers outnumber smokers. Thus non-smokers can bully smokers. This explains the legislative persecution and societal marginalizing of smokers in general. Since smoking is now seen as a disgusting habit by John Q Public it's ok to do this. Not that we tolerate other forms of discrimination well. It's just that we can wrap this up in cellophane labeled "Public Health".

Take that minority and create a minority within it.

Vapers are not a significantly large enough percentage of "smokers" for BT to invest money in. Instead, due to the small size of the population it is more cost effective to eliminate the sources and then "welcome" us back with open arms.

Your local crook-in-the-box (aka politicians) doesn't see vapers as a special interest that will help him/her get reelected. Instead, by not opposing legislation that negates my right to vape, the pol can point to the majority and tell them that they are being protected. That he can do this with little or no effort/time expended on his part is a bonus. How often can you openly discriminate against a minority and get away with it?

Things we need to do:

1. Separate ourselves from "Smokers" by showing the physical difference between the two groups paraphenalia. The way to do this is to show off the equipment and talk about it to your friends, neighbors, and co-workers. Be sure to target actual smokers. On this forum we are preaching to the choir. Now it's time to take it to the streets. The PV's that are not modeled to look like cigarettes could be an advantage in this talking point btw.

2. Separate ourselves from "Smokers" by discussing the health benefits. Even without studies you can still talk it up. Are you gaining weight? Is your appetite improving? Are your taste buds changing? Can you jog without coughing up a lung? The topics are endless. Targets here include active smokers, and former smokers for the most part. The former might be motivated by your story. The latter will see the intrinsic truth of your personal account since they went through it. Both groups might actually be interested in vaping as a recreational choice...

3. Separate ourselves from "Smokers" by demonstrating that the aesthetic stigma no longer applies. I've had great success by looking a rabid anti-smoker in the eye and asking "Do I smell like an ashtray"? The point here is to be an example of a normal person who happens to have a neat little gadget. You, your car, your clothing, your workspace, and your personal space don't smell like Marlboro Country.

4. Spread the word. If you have a personal web space, I have a blog for example, then use it to drive the points home. When it comes to overcoming apathy repetition = recognition.

Just my two cents of course. :D
 

GoodDog

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Great thread!! Yes, I do need to get involved and I appreciate the motivation, Mr_Phil!

I can't afford to stockpile too much so I decided to learn to make really good juice. This will give me bartering ability if a ban does come about or if my finances get worse. There will always be a black market with people that can repair attys, make mods or macerate tobacco. Like many others I love vaping and I won't give it up so I need to plan rather than worry.
 

Melwig

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Thanks to this and other places with information, I taught myself to make mods that use batts I can always get, and I taught myself to make niquid from scratch, which left me just having to stockpile attys, which I am doing every month. Every month I buy an extra five attys, which is really not breaking the bank when compared to what I used to spend on cigarettes.

I am also spreading the word and writing/emailing the appropriate people and signing the appropriate petitions.

Other than that I am perfectly prepared in this case to break any stupid laws that are passed, despite the fact that I am a law abiding tax paying little old granny who has never had so much as a parking ticket!
 
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